Coronavirus, Ebola and Infectious diseases, Food & Drugs, Studies, Recalls #6

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Message 2061459 - Posted: 15 Nov 2020, 13:38:22 UTC

Misinformation kills:


Stop anti-vaccination fake news online with new law says Labour
wrote:
The party is calling for financial and criminal penalties for social media firms that do not remove false scare stories about vaccines.

It follows news of progress on the first effective coronavirus vaccine...

... Baseless conspiracy theories about a coronavirus vaccine have been spreading on social media for months - and the latest vaccine news rekindled these pre-existing narratives online...

... This kind of disinformation is worlds away from legitimate concerns that a vaccine is safe and properly tested. Despite commitments to tackle falsehoods from social media sites and the government, a constant bubbling of conspiracies online looks to have already eroded trust for some in an effective vaccine. The anti-vax movement, which pre-dates the pandemic, is not the only thing responsible for the spread of this disinformation online. ... There is no truth to the false and harmful claims they make - but that hasn't stopped them spilling into the average social media feed for weeks and impacting those who come across them...

... In 2019, the UK lost its measles-free status designated by the World Health Organization - and there has been a marked decline in vaccination rates for all 13 diseases covered in jabs for children. Since the pandemic, anti-vaccination campaigners have moved their focus to the coronavirus...



Crazy stuff!

How and why? Are the "anti-vaxers" some silly joke like the Flat-Earthers, but a joke gone deadly wrong??


Stay safe folks!
Martin
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Message 2061460 - Posted: 15 Nov 2020, 13:40:33 UTC

I hope this doesn't slow down SpaceX!


Coronavirus: Elon Musk 'likely has moderate case'


Here's wishing him well,

Stay safe folks!
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Message 2061466 - Posted: 15 Nov 2020, 14:49:10 UTC - in response to Message 2061459.  
Last modified: 15 Nov 2020, 14:51:31 UTC

Misinformation kills:
Crazy stuff!
How and why? Are the "anti-vaxers" some silly joke like the Flat-Earthers, but a joke gone deadly wrong??
Yep, BUT...
Just like other groups, especially on social media, groups are hijacked by those with either agendas of their own or just plainly trolling for the hell of it.
Vaccines do include the virus/disease being attacked. It is well known that in most cases, at least 2 doses are required to immunise.
Over a decade ago, I had the flu jab 2 years running. Never again, both years had the worst dose ever experienced.Never had them again, in fact once I turned 60, my surgery when visited, recommended the jab & since they went high tech, get a text message every winter. Also, within my employment & social networks at the time, met & knew many who had the same experience.
Why did I accept the jabs in the 1st place?
Reasoning!
It was well researched & tested, so gave it a go.
It has been shown that there are those in society that are susceptible to succumbing to vaccines, albeit a small percentage of the population.
Covid-19 vaccine?
I won't take it. An unknown (& possibly rushed) vaccine that is stated to be 90% effective?
What about the other 10%?
So with this statement I become one of those jokers?
No worries, a gigantic profit will be made from that 90%.
Edit:
BTW, I'm not an anti-vaxxer. :-)
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Message 2061469 - Posted: 15 Nov 2020, 16:11:04 UTC

As for misinformation, is it coincidence that prompted this report?
NYT 23/3/20
Richardson-Merrell employed many of the same tactics that modern-day drug companies have used to promote their products.

NOW, that is scary!
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Message 2061474 - Posted: 15 Nov 2020, 16:40:04 UTC - in response to Message 2061466.  

Covid-19 vaccine?
I won't take it. An unknown (& possibly rushed) vaccine that is stated to be 90% effective?
What about the other 10%?
I know, not the accepted norm in quoting one's own posts, but in this case, well needed!
"I'm very confident that transmission between people will be reduced by such a highly effective vaccine - maybe not 90% but maybe 50% - but we should not forget that even that could result in a dramatic reduction of the pandemic spread," he said.

Not looking so good now is it?
Normal life next winter
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Message 2061476 - Posted: 15 Nov 2020, 17:05:02 UTC

maybe not 90% but maybe 50%
Tell that to devastated communities
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Message 2061488 - Posted: 15 Nov 2020, 19:38:36 UTC

It was bad enough when Victoria's quarantine system sprung a leak and you'd think that lessons were learned here, but apparently not as South Australia's quarantine system has also sprung a leak. :-(

Fears 'hundreds exposed' to coronavirus after a quarantine breach even worse than Melbourne's as hotel worker catches it from a traveller and infects entire family.
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Message 2061489 - Posted: 15 Nov 2020, 19:45:06 UTC - in response to Message 2061476.  
Last modified: 15 Nov 2020, 19:46:01 UTC

maybe not 90% but maybe 50%
Tell that to devastated communities

Note what the numbers actually mean...

For that type of vaccine (mRNA), that "90%" looks to be pretty good...

And if that then directly results in "50%" fewer people subsequently ever becoming ill with COVID-19, then that 50% reduction may be all that is needed to dampen down the deadly pandemic into something that is transmitted that much less frequently so that the pandemic is ended.

That scenario helps everyone, some directly, and everyone indirectly.


Personally, my choice is to have a far far greater trust in a vaccine to give me a good fighting chance, than to play a blind game as to whether or not I'm one of those vulnerable to becoming disabled or dead from the pandemic.

Stay safe!
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Message 2061495 - Posted: 15 Nov 2020, 23:24:02 UTC
Last modified: 15 Nov 2020, 23:25:30 UTC

Just a quick update before I disappear into my brewroom to bottle beer.

In the case race Sri Lanka removed Zambia from 100th place and look to take out Madagascar tomorrow moving to the top of that pack of contestants, Albania slipped past Australia to takeover 92nd, Kenya took 73rd from Uzbekistan while Greece claimed 69th after passing Libya as Serbia took over 64th from Croatia and Slovakia pushed China aside for 61st.

Jordan took over 41st place from Bolivia while Austria became the 36th country to pass 200,000 infections, Romania claimed 27th from Pakistan as the Ukraine and Belgium both passed Chile to take up 17th and 18th places respectively, Poland became the 16th country to pass 700,000 cases and Germany became the 13th country to pass 800,000 meanwhile the U.S is putting in another day of well over 100,000 again for the 12th day in a row and will that stupidity that those brain dead Trumpsters did on Saturday in D.C. see them break the 200,000 daily case mark? I'm sorry, but after seeing all the interviews with those people and the way that they just ignored all safety protocols there I can only call them brain dead as no other description could describe or fit them any better than that).

Anyhow I better go and bottle that brew now.
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Message 2061496 - Posted: 15 Nov 2020, 23:52:17 UTC - in response to Message 2061495.  
Last modified: 15 Nov 2020, 23:53:41 UTC

... meanwhile the U.S is putting in another day of well over 100,000 again for the 12th day in a row and will that stupidity that those brain dead Trumpsters did on Saturday in D.C. see them break the 200,000 daily case mark? I'm sorry, but after seeing all the interviews with those people and the way that they just ignored all safety protocols there I can only call them brain dead as no other description could describe or fit them any better than that)...

Sad and bad alert:

I really hope that Trump really isn't trying to instigate some kind of zombie apocalypse to leave the USA an unhealthy deadly divided mess for the sake of internal politics?...

God save the USA from itself?


Stay safe folks!
Martin
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Message 2061497 - Posted: 16 Nov 2020, 0:06:16 UTC - in response to Message 2061489.  
Last modified: 16 Nov 2020, 0:25:11 UTC

Personally, my choice is to have a far far greater trust in a vaccine to give me a good fighting chance, than to play a blind game as to whether or not I'm one of those vulnerable to becoming disabled or dead from the pandemic.
Make that a 50/50 chance. You won't know whether or not you are one of the small percentage that are susceptible to vaccines until you get a jab. If you are one of them, it's too late - Isn't that fact in itself a "Blind Game"?

It has also been said that Covid-19 will become as common as the flu. I've been seeing some mention on links I & others have provided regarding long covid.
I am also sure that it has been stated a covid vaccine will NOT be a one off & that regular jabs will be required to fend off the virus.
Can't recall where I read it so will read back through the thread & elsewhere to locate it again.
If I'm proven wrong on that last statement, I won't hesitate to acknowledge the error.

As for the flu vaccine - unofficially tested in Britain in the 1930's & on British troops - having to obey orders you know. The first official test took place in the 1940's
That's 1 & 2 decades after the flu pandemic.
Edit: I bet a lot of people didn't know this regarding the flu vaccine.
The vaccine must be changed each year, in hopes of matching the ever-mutating viruses. And that's been a challenge. On average, it's been 40% effective, meaning it's prevented illness 40% of the time.

Good luck on that fighting chance.
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Message 2061500 - Posted: 16 Nov 2020, 0:43:53 UTC - in response to Message 2061497.  
Last modified: 16 Nov 2020, 1:17:10 UTC

Personally, my choice is to have a far far greater trust in a vaccine to give me a good fighting chance, than to play a blind game as to whether or not I'm one of those vulnerable to becoming disabled or dead from the pandemic.
Make that a 50/50 chance. You won't know whether or not you are one of the small percentage that are susceptible to vaccines until you get a jab. If you are one of them, it's too late - Isn't that fact in itself a "Blind Game"?

Yep, it is very much a 'numbers game'...

The mRNA vaccine has already been tested on about 100 000 volunteers. To greatly speed up the usual three stages of tests that usually linger across a few years, the multiple volunteer tests have been run greatly overlapping each stage, with hopefully much increased day-by-day scrutiny. Indeed, various vaccine tests have been temporarily halted on hair-trigger singular events! IIRC, there's been just two incidents of note for the mRNA trials: One person died, but that was due to causes completely unrelated to the vaccine. A second person suffered adverse inflammation. So, glibly, that puts the adverse effects numbers to be about 1-in-100000.

(Joke alert: Ok, not quite the mythical 1-inna-million lottery prize :-P )

In contrast, IIRC, very roughly, about 1-in-10 COVID-19 victims suffer serious symptoms and of those, over 1-in-10 suffer permanent disablement/scarring or death.

So glibly:

That's a 9-in-10 chance to shrug off infection if unfortunately exposed to Coronavirus-SARS2 as opposed to a 1-in-1 chance of getting ill and a 1-in-10 chance of suffering worse.

Or... You can hide away from society for another year or two to then take your chances (or not).


It has also been said that Covid-19 will become as common as the flu. I've been seeing some mention on links I & others have provided regarding long covid.

Yep. It ALREADY is... Hence why we have a pandemic.

We already have other Coronaviruses in circulation. However, those others so far haven't been pandemic deadly to humans. Coronavirus-SARS2 has unfortunately opportunistically hit upon a vulnerable combination of effects that has made it cause a deadly pandemic. We've found another strain of Coronavirus in mink farms recently that has caused enough concern to have all the mink slaughtered and disposed of. (That is for a few million creatures! That may well end forever the mink fur trade throughout Europe, IMMHO, for the better for all.)


I am also sure that it has been stated a covid vaccine will NOT be a one off & that regular jabs will be required to fend off the virus...

That all depends on what new mutations we find and whether the deadly form of Coronavirus-SARS2 itself dies out.

Usually, infectious viruses evolve to become less deadly and less 'virulent' but longer lasting. We also naturally develop new immunity from exposure (for those that survive). We can greatly accelerate that protective immunity by using vaccination.


As for the flu vaccine - unofficially tested in Britain in the 1930's & on British troops - having to obey orders you know. The first official test took place in the 1940's
That's 1 & 2 decades after the flu pandemic.

The wartime flu pandemics killed more people than died in the fighting.

We've unfortunately seen that again in the here and now.


So... As always, it's a 'numbers game'.

I'm maximizing my positive numbers for good health by being healthy, wearing a mask etc, and going for vaccination as soon as available.


Stay safe folks!
Martin
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Message 2061501 - Posted: 16 Nov 2020, 0:52:29 UTC - in response to Message 2061497.  
Last modified: 16 Nov 2020, 1:19:39 UTC

Edit: I bet a lot of people didn't know this regarding the flu vaccine.
The vaccine must be changed each year, in hopes of matching the ever-mutating viruses. And that's been a challenge. On average, it's been 40% effective, meaning it's prevented illness 40% of the time.

Good luck on that fighting chance.

That (for flu) 40% is still very useful to keep people out of hospital and also to thwart another pandemic.

Still very worthwhile!


Stay safe folks!
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Message 2061502 - Posted: 16 Nov 2020, 0:54:04 UTC

Here's something interesting regarding the flu.
The current conventional flu vaccine and its potential to protect people and save lives is constantly being developed, and work is far from complete. The effectiveness of the vaccine varies enormously each year, from just 3% up to 70%. .
Numbers again.

The discovery of the flu virus led to early testing of a simple “killed virus vaccine” in the thirties on British troops. Later, in 1940s’, the first official vaccine was tested, and it was demonstrated that this simple killed virus vaccine was effective – and protected people against that strain/type of flu. However, the vaccine only protected against the strain/type of flu it “contained”, not any new flu that might appear.
The killed virus vaccine was “locked down” at the time it was made, and could only protect against the viruses that it was made from.
Let's hope Covid-19 will be a good little boy & behave himself by not mutating.
The history of the flu vaccine
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Message 2061503 - Posted: 16 Nov 2020, 0:57:43 UTC - in response to Message 2061497.  
Last modified: 16 Nov 2020, 0:59:23 UTC

Good luck on that fighting chance.

Further note:


This 'game' is not all about individuals.

The wider game is to include everyone in playing out the game of numbers such that whatever disease is halted/cured for the community as a whole.


There are various ways to play that out.

The quick and totally effective way is as is being done to cure the mink of Coronavirus to stop them spreading it into our community.

Alternatively for our society, hopefully everyone can agree that social preventative measures and vaccination is the best way to go for our society...


Stay safe folks!
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Message 2061505 - Posted: 16 Nov 2020, 1:09:35 UTC - in response to Message 2061502.  
Last modified: 16 Nov 2020, 1:12:38 UTC

... The killed virus vaccine was “locked down” at the time it was made, and could only protect against the viruses that it was made from.
Let's hope Covid-19 will be a good little boy & behave himself by not mutating...

Indeed so...

However...

We've moved on from the days of using for example cow pox (a mild infection) to inoculate against the deadly serious small pox of olden days.

The recently available mRNA vaccine targets an immune response to the spike protein part of Coronavirus. The action of that 'spike' is essential to why Coronavirus-SARS2 has caused a pandemic...

Hopefully... Attacking that target will neutralize the maximum number of possible mutations of Coronavirus in that any other mutations without that 'spike' would likely be impotent in any case.


Stay safe folks!
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Message 2061507 - Posted: 16 Nov 2020, 1:18:12 UTC - in response to Message 2061503.  

That is much understood by all decent people I believe.
Question for you.
With the top medical advisors saying that Covid-19 could end up seasonal, just how will a vaccine stop the spread?
Or were they misinforming the public?
Stating may, maybe or could is just p'ing In the wind.
The flu vaccine after 90 years (including a decade of testing - 15 years of testing for U.S.A as they did not release & administer it until 1945),
still has not stopped it spreading, so what chance will a vaccine "rushed" through in 10 months be in such claimed effectiveness?
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Message 2061509 - Posted: 16 Nov 2020, 1:37:28 UTC - in response to Message 2061507.  
Last modified: 16 Nov 2020, 1:58:11 UTC

... With the top medical advisors saying that Covid-19 could end up seasonal, just how will a vaccine stop the spread?

We have at least four very different types of vaccines soon to become available.

The 'old style' 'dead virus parts' vaccine will be specific for just whichever source virus has been used for the vaccine. This is still useful here and now to kill off the present pandemic.

The other three types of vaccine can be developed to be more general. (For example, that target just the virus protein spike that subverts the human cell's ACE2 receptor, rather than some random other bit of the virus that is otherwise benign and can freely mutate.)

However as always, we have detailed knowledge of the present Coronavirus-SARS2 strains, yet we are still left guessing for future mutations that might uncover new effects to make us ill.

This is all part of an evolutionary race! (Ongoing research and research funding needed.)


The flu vaccine after 90 years (including a decade of testing - 15 years of testing for U.S.A as they did not release & administer it until 1945),
still has not stopped it spreading, so what chance will a vaccine "rushed" through in 10 months be in such claimed effectiveness?

'Flu' is a multitude of different viruses that we just lump together to call 'flu'.

The annual vaccines are good against the types of flu that are targeted for that year.

However, there is the game that in reducing one group of flu because everyone is vaccinated, that then leaves an opportunity for another flu virus to spread that otherwise would have been out competed by the others... We see that with the Coronavirus numbers in that other respiratory infections have been reduced due to Coronavirus 'getting there first'...


It's all a game of numbers.

Yet you can still help yourself by improving your positive numbers :-)


Stay safe folks!
Martin
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Message 2061525 - Posted: 16 Nov 2020, 12:16:40 UTC
Last modified: 16 Nov 2020, 12:18:09 UTC

NBC- Covid-19 vaccine candidate 94.5 percent effective, Moderna says
Biotech company Moderna said on Monday that early analysis from its phase 3 trial shows its Covid-19 vaccine is 94.5 percent effective at preventing infection.
The news comes a week after pharmaceutical giant Pfizer said early analysis showed its vaccine candidate was more than 90 percent effective at preventing infection.

This is a developing story. Check back for updates
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Message 2061577 - Posted: 17 Nov 2020, 3:28:20 UTC

NOT theonion.com :/

U.S. nurse says dying COVID-19 patients spent last minutes insisting virus isn't real
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/u-s-nurse-says-dying-covid-19-patients-spent-last-minutes-insisting-virus-isn-t-real-1.5191235
Apr 3, 1999 - May 3, 2020
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Message boards : Politics : Coronavirus, Ebola and Infectious diseases, Food & Drugs, Studies, Recalls #6


 
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