Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects and Politics: DENIAL (#5)

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Message 2067597 - Posted: 4 Feb 2021, 12:37:29 UTC - in response to Message 2067590.  

Generally coke is used in the reduction of iron ore to "pig" iron in a blast furnace. The coke is the reducing agent, other materials can be used, but they tend to be very much less energy efficient, or very toxic. The feed for the blast furnace is normally a mixture of new iron ore plus scrap iron (which is frequently of unknown composition).
Electric arc/induction furnaces are then used to convert the "pig" iron into the required grade of steel by removing some of the carbon (pig has typically ~5% carbon, and steel is between 0.1 and 4%) and adding the various alloying elements. In days of yore the "pig" iron was run out of the blast furnace into moulds called "pigs", then remelted to make steel. But these days the "pig" iron is frequently run out of the blast furnace straight into the arc furnace as this is far more energy efficient.
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Message 2067606 - Posted: 4 Feb 2021, 14:58:33 UTC - in response to Message 2067590.  

Much cleaner is to use electric arc furnaces

Yep. Generate the electricity with the coke!
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Message 2067612 - Posted: 4 Feb 2021, 18:23:26 UTC - in response to Message 2067606.  

Much cleaner is to use electric arc furnaces

Yep. Generate the electricity with the coke!

Don't suggest that to Australia or China!!
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Message 2067785 - Posted: 6 Feb 2021, 23:23:40 UTC - in response to Message 2067595.  
Last modified: 6 Feb 2021, 23:28:57 UTC

Steel is iron with added carbon.
You still have to add carbon in the form of coal or coke.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_arc_furnace#Operation, para 5.

Indeed so, but in vastly less quantity and greatly less pollution than using coke also as the fuel...

The only way for the new coal mine to be viable is to burn the vastly greater quantities needed for keeping the dirty antique furnaces burning.

Very much indeed so:


Cumbria coal mine: Climate tsar urged to quit over 'reckless' plan
wrote:
... They say it will produce coking coal for the UK's steel industry, and save on imports.

But the government's advisors, the Climate Change Committee, said 85% of the Cumbrian coal would be exported.

They said the UK steel industry needs to be using clean technologies by 2035, whereas the mine has been consented to 2049...



All a game of corruptly 'sweating' dirty old 'assets' for short term profit and the world be damned?...

Very dirty indeed!


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Message 2067786 - Posted: 6 Feb 2021, 23:27:23 UTC
Last modified: 6 Feb 2021, 23:27:43 UTC

Very simply:


Climate crisis deaths 'will be worse than Covid'
wrote:
The world is heading for mortality rates equivalent to the Covid crisis every year by mid-century unless action is taken, according to Mark Carney.

The former central banker said the investment needed to avert millions of deaths was double current rates.

But with governments ploughing billions into keeping economies afloat, a question mark hangs over whether the recovery will be green enough.

The answer lies in smarter investment...



And that investment will be more profitable all round...

But... Where is the "but"?...


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Message 2067903 - Posted: 8 Feb 2021, 23:21:38 UTC - in response to Message 2067785.  

Steel is iron with added carbon.
You still have to add carbon in the form of coal or coke.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_arc_furnace#Operation, para 5.

Indeed so, but in vastly less quantity and greatly less pollution than using coke also as the fuel...

The only way for the new coal mine to be viable is to burn the vastly greater quantities needed for keeping the dirty antique furnaces burning.

Very much indeed so:


Cumbria coal mine: Climate tsar urged to quit over 'reckless' plan
wrote:
... They say it will produce coking coal for the UK's steel industry, and save on imports.

But the government's advisors, the Climate Change Committee, said 85% of the Cumbrian coal would be exported.

They said the UK steel industry needs to be using clean technologies by 2035, whereas the mine has been consented to 2049...

Alternatively, cleanly, we have:

Fossil free steel. Another giant step towards net carbon zero?
wrote:
Steel has become an essential material in our modern world. But the steel making industry is responsible for 7% of all global greenhouse gas emissions... A solution has been found though, and it replaces carbon with hydrogen...



To continue to stay with the dirty old fossils: All a game of corruptly 'sweating' dirty old 'assets' for short term profit and the world be damned?...

Very dirty indeed!


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Message 2067904 - Posted: 8 Feb 2021, 23:31:05 UTC - in response to Message 2067903.  

What about cement and concrete?
Bigger emitter than steel.
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Message 2068087 - Posted: 11 Feb 2021, 1:22:49 UTC - in response to Message 2067904.  
Last modified: 11 Feb 2021, 1:24:38 UTC

What about cement and concrete?
Bigger emitter than steel.

There are mitigations that reduce their polluting effects.

There is also the costly pollution from other kiln fired building materials such as bricks and panels.


However, far bigger positive gains can be made by improving our existing building practices... There is also the very big problem of moving the construction industry upwards from continuing to use polluting unskilled methods...


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Message 2068089 - Posted: 11 Feb 2021, 1:32:06 UTC
Last modified: 11 Feb 2021, 1:32:49 UTC

We shall overcome?...


Shift to green energy 'could cost oil states $13 trillion' by 2040
wrote:
... oil and gas producing countries face a multi-trillion-dollar hole in their government revenue...

... The dependence on oil and gas revenue is very marked for some countries - more than 80% for Iraq and Equatorial Guinea. For another seven including Saudi Arabia the figure is more than 60%. Some countries face very large losses of total revenue. For seven countries, including Angola and Azerbaijan the predicted loss is at least 40%. For another 12, including Saudi Arabia, Nigeria and Algeria it is in the range of 20% to 40%.

For some in the Middle East and North Africa, the effect is moderated somewhat because their low production costs would give them a more prominent role in global oil and gas...

... [Paradoxically] Some of the countries facing severe losses - from existing or potential oil and gas production - are among the poorest...

... diversification - of government revenue and national economies - is an urgent task. ... Capital that is not invested in oil and gas can instead be used to invest in industries that are more resilient to the energy transition. ... there is a strong case for the rest of the world to support this transition...



What position will Politics take?...


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Message 2068181 - Posted: 12 Feb 2021, 1:24:44 UTC - in response to Message 2067903.  

Cumbria coal mine: Climate tsar urged to quit over 'reckless' plan
wrote:
... They say it will produce coking coal for the UK's steel industry, and save on imports.

But the government's advisors, the Climate Change Committee, said 85% of the Cumbrian coal would be exported.

They said the UK steel industry needs to be using clean technologies by 2035, whereas the mine has been consented to 2049...

The political noise has forced this reconsideration:

Whitehaven coal mine plan to be re-examined by council
wrote:
Plans for a controversial coking coal mine in Cumbria have been suspended by the county council.

Councillors will reconsider the planning application for a site near Whitehaven in light of concerns about climate change...

... "The government now has a second chance to do the right thing and call it in. The UK cannot claim to be a climate leader whilst opening a new coal mine and ministers must realise that by doing so they undermine our credibility both at home and abroad.

"A new mine is neither the answer for climate change nor the answer for our steel industry. Indeed, 85% of the mine's production is due for export.

"People in Cumbria deserve good, secure jobs and there are so many crying out to be done in the green industries of the future."

However, the South Lakes Action on Climate Change group said it was sceptical planning officers would "change their minds and advise councillors to refuse this time". A spokesperson said: "Cumbria County Council will almost certainly be seeking to justify a further decision to approve, as a way of defending themselves...



Hopefully, there will be more positivity for going 'green' rather than just shifting the dirty dates...


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Message 2068183 - Posted: 12 Feb 2021, 1:30:23 UTC - in response to Message 2068089.  
Last modified: 12 Feb 2021, 1:31:05 UTC

Already as part of that, we have the good surprise of Shell Oil declaring that they passed their peak oil back in 2019:


Shell: Europe's biggest oil firm sets out carbon neutral plans
wrote:
... [Shell's] Spending will remain focused on oil and gas in the near future, with $2bn to $3bn per year on renewables and low-carbon parts of the business, and $8bn per year on oil and gas in the near term.

Environmental campaign group Greenpeace said there were "glaring flaws" in Shell's net zero plans, including that it was relying on customers and society to change behaviour. ... "Without commitments to reduce absolute emissions by making actual oil production cuts, this new strategy can't succeed nor can it be taken seriously. "Shell's plans include a delusional reliance on tree-planting."

Last week, Shell reported a net loss of $21.7bn (£16bn) last year...



Can we overcome the old fossil fuels soon enough?


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Message 2068209 - Posted: 12 Feb 2021, 8:22:22 UTC

Remembering a trip of 300 miles, 20+ years ago, on a bank holiday Monday,. I had to be ready for work at 8am following day. I started thinking how many rapid charging points would be needed at motorway service stations, so cars could be refueled for 200 miles in a short space of time, think coffee and toilet break.
The best info I came up with was https://inews.co.uk/news/electric-car-charging-uk-stations-motorway-service-chargers-ev-government-plans-428167 That definitely will not be enough.
And will the electricity infrastructure be in place to deliver the power demanded. IMHO probably not, even with massive storage batteries on-site.
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Message 2068225 - Posted: 12 Feb 2021, 10:52:44 UTC



From https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/in-pictures-56016031 Science Photographer of the Year winners revealed
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Message 2068916 - Posted: 21 Feb 2021, 16:02:26 UTC

Greed at work?
Overfilled tanks?
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Message 2068921 - Posted: 21 Feb 2021, 16:41:04 UTC - in response to Message 2068916.  

Or washing out tanks.
Or dumping ballast carried in cargo (oil) tanks.
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Message 2068927 - Posted: 21 Feb 2021, 17:06:03 UTC - in response to Message 2068921.  

Whatever the cause, I hope they track the bastards.
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Message 2069043 - Posted: 23 Feb 2021, 0:46:59 UTC

Restarting Texas’s Frozen Energy Heartland Will Be a Climate Mess.

An Exxon Mobil Corp. ethylene plant in Baytown, one of the world's biggest, reported the release of nearly a ton of the carcinogen benzene and 34 tons of carbon monoxide, which contributes to air pollution. Shutting off Valero Energy Corp.’s Port Arthur Refinery resulted in the release of more than 2 tons of sulfur dioxide, another pollutant. Events at two facilities belonging to Pioneer Natural Resources Co. led to the escape of more than 12 tons of natural gas; methane, main component of natural gas, has many times the global warming potential of carbon dioxide....

....This is the second time in less than six months the Texas oil industry has dealt with mass shutdowns due to extreme weather. The 12 hours after Hurricane Laura hit Port Arthur in August saw the release of more than 2,000 tons of emissions.
I certainly wouldn't want to live there.
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Message 2070422 - Posted: 11 Mar 2021, 18:10:31 UTC
Last modified: 11 Mar 2021, 18:14:05 UTC

Deny this when you get flooded out? Or when you get parched into a Biblical dustbowl??


Record-breaking rain {ever} more likely due to climate change
wrote:
Record-breaking rainfall like that seen [in the UK] on 3 October 2020 could be 10 times more likely by 2100...

... The [extreme] rainfall on 3 October followed on from Storm Alex, which caused disruption across Europe, especially south-east France and north-west Italy...

... "We are also now starting to see how more frequent extreme rainfall events are already impacting the UK, showing that human induced climate change is already having an impact on the weather we experience in the UK.”...

... In addition to increased frequency of these extreme events, the research found that human-induced climate change has and will continue to result in more variation in rainfall across the UK. This means that rather than many moderate rain events, we are more often seeing very wet or very dry spells.

In a warming climate the atmosphere can hold more water, and wet extremes would therefore be expected to become more intense...



The chart in that article is very telling. This all happening now.


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Message 2070863 - Posted: 16 Mar 2021, 21:27:57 UTC
Last modified: 16 Mar 2021, 21:30:54 UTC

This example is not necessarily caused by our climate pollution, but it does give a good reminder of the fragile vastness that we are forcibly disturbing:


Mega-iceberg A74: German ship squeezes through narrow ice channel
wrote:
The German Research Vessel Polarstern has made a remarkable circumnavigation of Antarctica's latest mega-iceberg.

The ship sailed a complete circuit of the 1,290-sq-km (500 sq miles) frozen block, known as A74, at the weekend.

To do so, RV Polarstern had to navigate the very narrow channel that separates A74 from the Brunt Ice Shelf ...


That is some real daring-do by those researchers, totally dedicated to gaining a better understanding for us all, a big something that just has to be appreciated by us all.

Note that a small change in the winds or sea currents in that area could very easily have doomed their ship to the fate of Shackleton's Endurance...



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Message 2072350 - Posted: 2 Apr 2021, 11:43:14 UTC

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Message boards : Politics : Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects and Politics: DENIAL (#5)


 
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