Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects and Politics: DENIAL (#5)

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Message 2064055 - Posted: 21 Dec 2020, 11:00:09 UTC

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Message 2065345 - Posted: 9 Jan 2021, 22:11:51 UTC
Last modified: 9 Jan 2021, 22:12:38 UTC

Whatever next?...

Skiing in Spain?!!!


Storm Filomena: Spain sees 'exceptional' snowfall
wrote:
Storm Filomena has blanketed parts of Spain in heavy snow, with half of the country on red alert for more on Saturday.

Madrid, one of the worst affected areas, is set to see up to 20cm (eight inches) of snow in the next 24 hours...

... The cold weather is set to continue beyond the weekend with temperatures in Madrid predicted to hit -12C on Thursday.



That might be a 'first' for those areas in their recorded history!

Unfortunately, that is all to be expected as our weather systems are driven to ever greater extremes as we industriously pollute our planet ever further with ever yet more man-made carbon dioxide and methane and other big pollutants...


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Message 2065371 - Posted: 10 Jan 2021, 6:41:58 UTC - in response to Message 2065345.  

Whatever next?...

Skiing in Spain?!!!

Sierra Nevada is one skin resort.
And it is not far from the Southern coast.
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Message 2065584 - Posted: 12 Jan 2021, 19:06:50 UTC - in response to Message 2065371.  
Last modified: 12 Jan 2021, 19:07:17 UTC

Whatever next?...

Skiing in Spain?!!!

Sierra Nevada is one skin resort.
And it is not far from the Southern coast.

Spain is now a suburb of the Arctic:

Central Spain records temperatures of -25C after snowstorm
wrote:
People in central Spain are struggling as a deep freeze follows the weekend's heavy snow, leading to treacherous conditions.

Officials have warned the elderly to stay at home. At least seven people have died due to the weather - the two latest victims were homeless people in Barcelona.

The temperature plunged to -25C (-13F) in Molina de Aragón and Teruel, in mountains east of Madrid - Spain's coldest night for at least 20 years.

Deep snow left by Storm Filomena has turned to ice, disrupting transport. There has been an extraordinary quantity of snow and ice for Spain, where winters are usually quite mild...



Best not to mess with the Arctic ice and the stratospheric jet stream!

Ooops... Then again, what are we doing?!!!...


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Message 2065594 - Posted: 13 Jan 2021, 0:21:33 UTC
Last modified: 13 Jan 2021, 0:23:16 UTC

All by the blinkered power of the short term of greedy ignorance:

Climate change: Africa's green energy transition 'unlikely' this decade
wrote:
Fossil fuels are set to remain the dominant source of electricity across Africa over the next decade, according to a new study.

Researchers found that around 2,500 power plants are planned, enough to double electricity production by 2030. But ... less than 10% of the new power generated will come from wind or solar.

The authors say that Africa now risks being locked into high carbon energy for decades...

How is that so when we have renewables that are lower cost than dirty old coal pollution?!...



Meanwhile, for what can be seen for an easy example despite all manner of denials:

Climate change: US emissions in 2020 in biggest fall since WWII
wrote:
US greenhouse gas emissions tumbled below their 1990 level for the first-time last year as a result of the response to the coronavirus pandemic.

A preliminary assessment from research group Rhodium says that overall emissions were down over 10%, the largest fall since World War II.

Transport suffered the biggest decline, with emissions down almost 15% over 2019.

Energy emissions also fell sharply, due to a decline in the use of coal...




Sadly, for both human life as well as the world environment, we are breaking various other records since WWII...

However, we can turn all this silliness around... How?


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Message 2065597 - Posted: 13 Jan 2021, 1:26:33 UTC - in response to Message 2065594.  

How is that so when we have renewables that are lower cost than dirty old coal pollution?!...
What's the cost of coal when average income in Africa is 1/10th, if that, of ours.
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Message 2065602 - Posted: 13 Jan 2021, 3:46:21 UTC - in response to Message 2065584.  

Central Spain records temperatures of -25C after snowstorm
Snowball earth?
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Message 2065632 - Posted: 13 Jan 2021, 16:06:57 UTC - in response to Message 2065602.  
Last modified: 13 Jan 2021, 16:07:25 UTC

Central Spain records temperatures of -25C after snowstorm
Snowball earth?

If we tip the jet stream and push the atmospheric circulation cells too far... Yes.

The present example in Spain nicely shows how the feedback effects work.

Likely the only thing holding the Snowball Earth effect back for the moment is the inertia of the ocean circulation streams... However, we are already seeing a slow down of the Gulf stream in the Atlantic...


How can we all be so crazy?

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Message 2065640 - Posted: 13 Jan 2021, 16:48:12 UTC - in response to Message 2065632.  

Central Spain records temperatures of -25C after snowstorm
Snowball earth?

If we tip the jet stream and push the atmospheric circulation cells too far... Yes.
You just said AGW causes snowball earth. So when is the Mediterranean going to ice over?
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Message 2065643 - Posted: 13 Jan 2021, 16:57:41 UTC - in response to Message 2065640.  

I think too many people have "The Day After Tomorrow" as their No 1 source for climate change.
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Message 2065649 - Posted: 13 Jan 2021, 17:52:38 UTC - in response to Message 2065640.  
Last modified: 13 Jan 2021, 17:56:01 UTC

Central Spain records temperatures of -25C after snowstorm
Snowball earth?

If we tip the jet stream and push the atmospheric circulation cells too far... Yes.
You just said AGW causes snowball earth. So when is the Mediterranean going to ice over?

I've seen it happen a few times ;-) Quite a sudden and a surprising tip-over gets pushed into a new long term 'normal'...

Unless we change our course on pollution, we'll see too much ice too soon for mankind to abandon this planet alive...

(Although Elon Musk is trying very hard and fast to dodge that...)


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Message 2065650 - Posted: 13 Jan 2021, 17:55:06 UTC - in response to Message 2065643.  
Last modified: 13 Jan 2021, 17:56:59 UTC

I think too many people have "The Day After Tomorrow" as their No 1 source for climate change.

Instead, see a real world example that happened recently. This example just happened to push over into the USA rather than Europe:

{2015} ... about the cold winter in eastern North America + Update
wrote:
The past winter was globally the warmest on record. At the same time it set a new cold record in the subpolar North Atlantic – and it was very cold in the eastern parts of North America. Are these things related?...


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Message 2066304 - Posted: 21 Jan 2021, 23:21:17 UTC

Is this where Gary Larson in his The Far Side cartoons has the last laugh upon us all?


See a beautifully presented:

Why THE FAR SIDE is a masterclass


What do you think? Was Homer Simpson right?


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Message 2066989 - Posted: 27 Jan 2021, 19:30:13 UTC
Last modified: 27 Jan 2021, 19:34:07 UTC

As can be expensively expected for this old heavyweight technology:


Hinkley Point C nuclear plant to open later at greater cost
wrote:
... The plant is due to open in June 2026 and not in 2025 as planned and will cost between £22bn and £23bn.

It is expected to generate electricity for up to six million homes. That equates to about 7% of the UK's energy supply...



What cost to the environment is that £23,000 Million?

What additional cost will there be for the inevitably long protracted expensive decommissioning?

And yet we will see no useful output until after 2026... Another 5 years or more yet.


Meanwhile instead, for a more immediately useful and clean return of investing that £23,000 Million:

  • How many GWatts of offshore wind power could be brought online?
  • How much storage capacity can be included spread across batteries, liquid air, hydrogen, ammonia, gravity systems, molten salt, liquid batteries, others, storage systems?
  • How much of our National Grid can we upgrade with even just a small part of that?



£23,000 Million is an eye-watering cost for just ONE power plant. The running costs and the costs of profits for that over the lifetime can be expected to be a number of times that figure yet high for silly high costs...

There just has to be a better less costly clean way to go!


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Message 2067515 - Posted: 3 Feb 2021, 16:07:30 UTC

So it would appear that French President Emmanuel Macron has not only failed in his response to Covid-19 see; https://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=85636&postid=2067497#2067497 he has also failed to honour his climate commitments.
Court convicts French state for failure to address climate crisis
A Paris court has convicted the French state of failing to address the climate crisis and not keeping its promises to tackle greenhouse gas emissions.

In what has been hailed as a historic ruling, the court found the state guilty of “non-respect of its engagements” aimed at combating global warming.

Billed the “affair of the century”, the legal case was brought by four French environmental groups after a petition signed by 2.3 million people.

“This is an historic win for climate justice. The decision not only takes into consideration what scientists say and what people want from French public policies, but it should also inspire people all over the world to hold their governments accountable for climate change in their courts,” said Jean-François Julliard, the executive director of Greenpeace France, one of the plaintiffs.

He said the judgment would be used to push the French state to act against the climate emergency. “No more blah blah,” he added.
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Message 2067578 - Posted: 4 Feb 2021, 9:04:48 UTC

Double standards?
No worries, it's just a local planning matter.
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Message 2067587 - Posted: 4 Feb 2021, 12:03:48 UTC - in response to Message 2067578.  

Double standards?
No worries, it's just a local planning matter.

The question is "Does the UK and Europe want to continue producing steel?"
If so "Does it want to use locally produced coking coal or import the coal from some distant shore, with the additional pollution of transporting it?"
Or do we totally export the pollution to other countries and import the steel and subsequently, rather hypocritically, congratulate ourselves on how wonderfully free at reducing our carbon footprint
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Message 2067590 - Posted: 4 Feb 2021, 12:14:01 UTC - in response to Message 2067587.  
Last modified: 4 Feb 2021, 12:15:10 UTC

Double standards?
No worries, it's just a local planning matter.

The question is "Does the UK and Europe want to continue producing steel?"
If so "Does it want to use locally produced coking coal or import the coal from some distant shore, with the additional pollution of transporting it?"
Or do we totally export the pollution to other countries and import the steel and subsequently, rather hypocritically, congratulate ourselves on how wonderfully free at reducing our carbon footprint

There are other greener cleaner methods to produce steel rather than the old 300-years-old dirty tech of using coke.

Much cleaner is to use electric arc furnaces or clean(ed) gas.

However, out with the old means investment for in with new with the more efficient and cleaner.


Meanwhile, who pays for the continuing pollution?

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Message 2067593 - Posted: 4 Feb 2021, 12:20:14 UTC - in response to Message 2067590.  
Last modified: 4 Feb 2021, 12:21:06 UTC

Steel is iron with added carbon.
You still have to add carbon in the form of coal or coke.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_arc_furnace#Operation, para 5.
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Message 2067595 - Posted: 4 Feb 2021, 12:29:19 UTC - in response to Message 2067593.  
Last modified: 4 Feb 2021, 12:30:50 UTC

Steel is iron with added carbon.
You still have to add carbon in the form of coal or coke.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_arc_furnace#Operation, para 5.

Indeed so, but in vastly less quantity and greatly less pollution than using coke also as the fuel...

The only way for the new coal mine to be viable is to burn the vastly greater quantities needed for keeping the dirty antique furnaces burning.


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Message boards : Politics : Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects and Politics: DENIAL (#5)


 
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