Underperformaning setups compared to others, need help.

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Athous80

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Message 1986431 - Posted: 22 Mar 2019, 0:25:47 UTC

Ive spent considerable time at this point trolling the forums and looking for fixes for two computers I have setup for seti that imho are underperforming. Have GPU's setup to handle 3 workloads per card, made some command line adjustments from what Ive read. Reinstalled drivers as well as tried different drivers. I just cannot get two computers to seem to achieve a better score. For reference its my two newest setups

1. Xeon e5-2643 6 core, 3x 1070ti and only averaging 36k per day.
2. i3-8350k, 2x 1070ti averaging 26k per day.

My other primary computer which appears to be doing well is a 8700k with a 1080ti getting around 46k per day.

I assume 3x or 2x 1070ti's would fare better than one 1080ti. All three computers are setup exactly the same. Am I missing something? Is multiple 1070ti's just not as good as one 1080ti? All temps are great as they are in a climate controlled room in 6u server cases with boat loads of fans. GPU is 50-55c and CPU's are 50-60 with the 8350k running a bit hotter. Processors are watercooled, GPU's are just using fans with augmented fans running along with them.

Ive spent weeks trying things and I just dont get why Im hitting this wall. If anyone has any suggestions I would greatly appreciate it. Ill even pay if someone can look into this more for me to get it streamlined. Its frustrating!
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Message 1986437 - Posted: 22 Mar 2019, 0:57:29 UTC - in response to Message 1986431.  

You are running the slowest application the project offers. CUDA50 does not run well at all on modern Nvidia hardware. You need to be running the SoG application (8.22 (opencl_nvidia_SoG).

To do so you need to make sure you have the Nvidia OpenCL drivers loaded for the system. Without the drivers, Seti won't ever send you the SoG application which is OpenCL based.
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Message 1986440 - Posted: 22 Mar 2019, 1:05:06 UTC - in response to Message 1986431.  
Last modified: 22 Mar 2019, 1:11:17 UTC

Ive spent weeks trying things and I just dont get why Im hitting this wall. If anyone has any suggestions I would greatly appreciate it. Ill even pay if someone can look into this more for me to get it streamlined. Its frustrating!


This machine doesn't have Open CL installed:
https://setiathome.berkeley.edu/show_host_detail.php?hostid=8677513

Neither does this one: https://setiathome.berkeley.edu/show_host_detail.php?hostid=8471967

As Keith said in the previous message you need to get OpenCL installed. You do that by getting a late model version of the Nvidia driver package directly from the NVIDIA website and installing it. You should use a "custom install" and select the "delete previous drivers" box.

People who run Windows 10 sometimes get their NVIDIA driver "upgraded" by Windows and lose the OpenCL driver. Which puts you right where you are at now.

It is part of the never ending battle to have the Windows 10 OS serving you instead of you serving it :)

Tom
I will stop procrastinating tomorrow.
\\// Live Long & Prosper (starting tomorrow ;)
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Message 1986447 - Posted: 22 Mar 2019, 1:26:53 UTC - in response to Message 1986440.  

. You should use a "custom install" and select the "delete previous drivers" box.

Tom

Minor point, but all the later driver versions of Nvidia remove the previous drivers when running the Default install.

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Message 1986450 - Posted: 22 Mar 2019, 1:35:50 UTC - in response to Message 1986447.  
Last modified: 22 Mar 2019, 1:37:33 UTC

Hi Bill, is that the case when installing the same version of drivers? Say M$ version 419.35 for Nvidia direct download 419.35 drivers?

Also, what is going on now at the Nvidia driver download page?

https://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx?lang=en-us#

Notice the new dropdown selector for "Windows Driver Type" Selection for either "Standard" or "DCH"

I see the "DCH" selection is defined by the ? link as

"Standard" packages are those that do not require the DCH driver components.

"DCH" (Declarative, Componentized, Hardware Support Apps) refers to new packages preinstalled by OEMS implementing the Microsoft Universal Driver paradigm.

DCH drivers cannot be installed over a standard system, and Standard drivers cannot be installed over a DCH system.

To confirm the type of system you have, locate Driver Type under the System Information menu in the NVIDIA Control Panel.


So is the "DCH" package the one that someone needs to get the OpenCL component?
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Message 1986455 - Posted: 22 Mar 2019, 1:58:46 UTC - in response to Message 1986450.  

Yes, installing the same version removes the old version. I download the drivers to my computer so it is easier to reload them after a Windows Update, and they are coming 3 times a week now (I am on the Insider Track).
The rest of your questions I really will have to take a look at and see what you are talking about.

Hi Bill, is that the case when installing the same version of drivers? Say M$ version 419.35 for Nvidia direct download 419.35 drivers?

Also, what is going on now at the Nvidia driver download page?
r
https://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx?lang=en-us#

Notice the new dropdown selector for "Windows Driver Type" Selection for either "Standard" or "DCH"

I see the "DCH" selection is defined by the ? link as

"Standard" packages are those that do not require the DCH driver components.

"DCH" (Declarative, Componentized, Hardware Support Apps) refers to new packages preinstalled by OEMS implementing the Microsoft Universal Driver paradigm.

DCH drivers cannot be installed over a standard system, and Standard drivers cannot be installed over a DCH system.

To confirm the type of system you have, locate Driver Type under the System Information menu in the NVIDIA Control Panel.


So is the "DCH" package the one that someone needs to get the OpenCL component?


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Message 1986478 - Posted: 22 Mar 2019, 3:29:50 UTC - in response to Message 1986440.  

I checked both machines and in drivers khronos open CL is installed on both. I went ahead and updated the driver for one machine as well as installed Cuda 10.1. Still showing no open CL though. Is there a trick somewhere to enable it? Ive never had to do it on any of my single graphics card machines though. Perhaps because theres multiple GPU's it chooses cuda50 over OpenCL?
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Message 1986484 - Posted: 22 Mar 2019, 3:41:24 UTC - in response to Message 1986478.  

No trick. If the OpenCL component is installed, it works with all cards that have OpenCL capability. I haven't run Windows in a year so no practical experience now with current drivers. I am seeing many posts from Nvidia Windows users now in the forums who are unable to run the SoG application because of missing OpenCL component. And the common thread is they are all running the latest Nvidia drivers.

And now there seems to be two different drivers available. And they are not compatible with each other. Users running older Nvidia drivers that have prevented Windows from updating their graphics drivers are still able to run the SoG application with no issues.

Can you go to the Nvidia download site and download a legacy driver from the 416 series? And use the DDU Uninstaller to completely wipe the Nvidia drivers from the system before installing the old Standard drivers.
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Message 1986486 - Posted: 22 Mar 2019, 3:49:30 UTC - in response to Message 1986484.  

If in fact you can not load the correct driver, depending on what is on the computer, I also would suggest you run DDU to totally wipe the Nvidia driver, then reinstall a driver, not above 419.17 from the site. If as Nvidia says, that you can not load the drivers if one is already installed, it would seem that this is the only way at this time. (As I say, I download the drivers to my computer and then just install from the disk, rather than go to the Nvidia site each time.)(and I can not see how W10 is causing any problems right now as I have had 5 updates in the last week and after each update I reload the drivers)

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Message 1986488 - Posted: 22 Mar 2019, 3:59:39 UTC

If you have the original Standard driver installed, it seems to stay installed. The issue seems to come from the Nvidia Experience Auto Updater and the Windows 10 Auto Updater trying to install the Standard driver over the DCH version or vice versa. Seems that corrupts the registry entries for OpenCL.
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Message 1986587 - Posted: 22 Mar 2019, 16:21:14 UTC - in response to Message 1986478.  

@AThous80, you might want to read the RTX2080Ti - Odd performance thread for the past 12 hours. https://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=84049
Another user with the inability to run OpenCL applications because the latest Nvidia drivers don't have OpenCL component in the Standard drivers it seems. He solved the issue by installing the Creative DCH version of the drivers.
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Message 1986615 - Posted: 22 Mar 2019, 18:13:37 UTC

a quick thought , Set Windows update to manual for the time being , with auto update - you install a driver , windows 10 sees a 'better driver' and plop it's back.

Greets ..
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Message 1986651 - Posted: 22 Mar 2019, 23:06:17 UTC - in response to Message 1986615.  

a quick thought , Set Windows update to manual for the time being , with auto update - you install a driver , windows 10 sees a 'better driver' and plop it's back.

Unfortunately there is no Manual Update for most versions of Win10.
You can delay updates, depending on your Windows Version (Home or Pro). Win10 Pro allows you to block driver updates using the Group Policy Editor. Only the Enterprise versions of Win10 allow all updates to be done at the owner's leisure.
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Message 1986660 - Posted: 23 Mar 2019, 0:03:19 UTC

I have two Windows 10 boxes running NVIDIA cards. The one that is handy is running v 19.1.1 from January 20 which are part of the file name. For 64 bit windows.The full fine name is a bit awkward to get at because that machine is temporarily unnetworked. Let me know if I need to get the full file name please.

Tom
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\\// Live Long & Prosper (starting tomorrow ;)
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Message 1986669 - Posted: 23 Mar 2019, 0:29:39 UTC - in response to Message 1986660.  

Finally think I got it figured out. had to try several different drivers, and DDU several times. Also made some registry changes and Im not sure what part actually fixed it, but it appears to be working. Thanks for everyones help. This was truly driving me nuts.
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Message 1986672 - Posted: 23 Mar 2019, 0:44:26 UTC - in response to Message 1986669.  
Last modified: 23 Mar 2019, 0:45:57 UTC

Finally think I got it figured out. had to try several different drivers, and DDU several times. Also made some registry changes and Im not sure what part actually fixed it, but it appears to be working. Thanks for everyones help. This was truly driving me nuts.

Since you're running Win10 Pro, you can use the Group Policy Editor to stop Windows Update from updating the video drivers.

You could also make use of some command line settings to improve the output of you GTX 1080Ti system, and the output of you GTX 1070 system is unfortunately rather pathetic as the BOINC Manager has chosen the wrong application to process GPU work- it should be SoG.
Someone might know how to force it to try out different applications again?

Putting
-tt 1500 -hp -period_iterations_num 1 -high_perf -high_prec_timer -cpu_lock -sbs 2048 -spike_fft_thresh 4096 -tune 1 64 1 4 -oclfft_tune_gr 256 -oclfft_tune_lr 16 -oclfft_tune_wg 256 -oclfft_tune_ls 512 -oclfft_tune_bn 64 -oclfft_tune_cw 64

in the
mb_cmdline-8.22_windows_intel__opencl_nvidia_SoG.txt
file in the
C:\ProgramData\BOINC\projects\setiathome.berkeley.edu
folder will provide a big boost to your output on cards using the SoG application (even suitable for the GTX 1050Ti, however -period_iterations_num should be set to around 30 or so if you use that computer for things other than crunching).

Once the file has been saved, the next WU that starts processing will use the new values- no need to exit & restart BOINC, or read config files.


NB- If the system becomes laggy (keyboard input/screen display), changing
-period_iterations_num 1
to a value such as 3 (or 5 or 7 or even 10 if 3 or 5 etc isn't good enough) will resolve the laggyness issue (remember the changed value won't take effect untill the next WU starts processing). For a crunching only system, having it set s 1 will give the best output & since it's not being used for other things, any keyboard input/screen laggyness won't be an issue.
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Message 1986685 - Posted: 23 Mar 2019, 2:38:53 UTC - in response to Message 1986672.  

You could also make use of some command line settings to improve the output of you GTX 1080Ti system, and the output of you GTX 1070 system is unfortunately rather pathetic as the BOINC Manager has chosen the wrong application to process GPU work- it should be SoG.
Someone might know how to force it to try out different applications again?


I think that maybe what the Seti scheduler is doing it again. Checking things. I could see 6-8 SOG tasks in pending. And the "details" section claims something like 239 tasks today for SOG vs. 90 today for CUDA50. So I think once the Seti server gets done processing those 239 tasks (unless I am confused and that doesn't mean 239 have been returned, but have been sent out?) his task/app mix will switchover.

Tom
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\\// Live Long & Prosper (starting tomorrow ;)
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Message 1986691 - Posted: 23 Mar 2019, 3:42:50 UTC - in response to Message 1986685.  

I think that maybe what the Seti scheduler is doing it again.

The BOINC Manager- it decides which application gets to process the allocated work.
This time it will hopefully end up with SoG.
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Message 1986709 - Posted: 23 Mar 2019, 8:35:33 UTC - in response to Message 1986431.  

Have GPU's setup to handle 3 workloads per card
Now that you are running SoG tasks, 3 tasks per card is too much. The 1080Ti can handle 3 but the 1070Ti should only be running 1 or 2.
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Message 1986711 - Posted: 23 Mar 2019, 8:41:38 UTC - in response to Message 1986709.  

The 1080Ti can handle 3 but the 1070Ti should only be running 1 or 2.

And even 3 may be more than best for the card, you need to try it and see.

Others with GTX 1070s have found they get more WUs processed per hour running 2 at a time, yet no matter what command lines I've used, 1 at time gives the most output on my GTX 1070s.
You just need to keep a close eye on what work is being processed at the time when comparing running different number of WUs at a time, as different WUs have different run times.
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Message boards : Number crunching : Underperformaning setups compared to others, need help.


 
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