Venezuela's economic crisis was caused by US sanctions. US wants control over the largest oil reserves in the Americas.

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marmot
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Message 1984552 - Posted: 11 Mar 2019, 15:28:34 UTC
Last modified: 11 Mar 2019, 15:52:36 UTC

PBS News Hour, Weekend, Hari does a report on Venezuela and the failure of it's economy then moves on to Iran and how US sanctions are starting to bite causing their currency to enter hyper inflationary cycle. Their citizens will pay a price for the powerful US sanctions.
I wonder if he's giving as much a clue as he can past his editorial control because Venezuela has been under harsh sanctions for years yet somehow, their economic crisis stems only from Socialism and Maduro corruption.
Trump meets with Kim and similar stories about how US sanctions are causing starvation and hardship in North Korea but day after day the US sanctions effect on Venezuela is never mentioned.

The Red Cross and UN refusing to work with US relief trucks is mentioned one time, as an aside on the state funded PBS News Hour. The Red Cross understand the politics of this. The relief is enough for maybe 3000 people while 3 million suffer under US sanctions. It's theater to support the US's 92nd (93rd?) regime change in 100 years.

It's not really a war against socialism as the US actually worked with Vietnam on economics and, although it's still a single party Communist regime, it's GDP is growing well; it doesn't have major oil reserves. Neither does North Korea.

There's oil under Maduro's regime.

The US has already overthrown the OPEC countries of Iraq and Libya and now is attempting to destabilize the OPEC countries of Iran and Venezuela. Saddam and Qaddafi both made the "mistake" of refusing US oil company development and control and refused loans from US financial companies. Iran nationalized their oil company and so the US overthrew their democratically elected leader and installed the Shah. Chavez did the same and used the funds to reduce the economic inequality of his people which had been nearly the worst in the Western Hemisphere. And for refusing to work with US oil companies; he was demonized.
Of course PBS News Hour, nor BBC Global, discuss the oil politics of the situation. They just both push positive spin stories about Guaidó and heart wrenching interviews with the people starving and leaving Venezuela. They never explain how the constitution even would allow Guaidó to pronounce himself president nor how the election that saw him come to power could be legitimate while Maduro's is somehow completely rigged. They don't cover Guaidó's conversations with US administrations that go back years.
PBS News Hour get's all huffy when topic of fake news comes up and how the 'truth must win out' yet they push the Trump administration's propaganda in a march to war in Venezuela never once playing the clip of John Bolton on FOX Business where he tips the administration's hand and says it would be great for US oil companies, and the people of Venezuela, for US oil companies to develop their oil reserves. Neither do they quote Guaidó's speech where he says he would open up the oil to foreign companies, nor (even though they do a whole piece on the new book) mention McCabe's quote from his new book about Trump saying: "Venezuela, that's the county we should be going to war with. They have all that oil and they're right on our back door."

I used to (mostly) trust and listen faithfully to the PBS News Hour and BBC Global podcasts.
My eyes are opened by the complete and total misdirection of the Venezuela coverage.

The US government and it's fruit growing conglomerates set up vassal governments in Honduras and Guatemala (the two countries sending the most refugees to the southern border....) dubbed Banana Republics so that the flow of banana's and other important fruit crops would be continuous and cheap.

Now the US repeats with Oil Republics in the decade where humans need to stop any new pipeline and oil extraction development.

We're heading for extinction...
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Message 1984555 - Posted: 11 Mar 2019, 15:36:24 UTC

Short term gains will always win against long term planning.
Change that attitude & we may survive.
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Message 1984560 - Posted: 11 Mar 2019, 16:03:49 UTC - in response to Message 1984555.  
Last modified: 11 Mar 2019, 16:05:03 UTC

Short term gains will always win against long term planning.
Change that attitude & we may survive.



I read that the estimate of psychopaths in the human population is 1 in 100 and they gravitate to professions such as, politician, CEO, surgeon, lawyer, police officer, bureaucrat, clergy and sales. Could be 10% of surgeons are psychopaths and higher percentages of CEO and politicians.

They have no empathy, only wish to pursue their selfish interests and want a profession where they can dominate other people.

A quick and ready test for psychopath, please?

Human tribalism plays it's part in this situation.
Imagine if Al Gore hadn't politicized/tribalized climate change and left it to neutral scientists?
Once he put his hands on it; the Republican loyalists, fresh from the 2000 election, absolutely could not believe anything he claims.
The facts of the other tribe are verboten!
wrong!
certain tricks so they can hurt your tribe and take your tribe's territory.
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Message 1984603 - Posted: 11 Mar 2019, 20:45:39 UTC

It's called, "U.S. Capitalist Greed", and, "U.S. Economic Terrorism", which both come about when they can't use their "War Machine".
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Message 1984625 - Posted: 11 Mar 2019, 23:41:12 UTC

The turmoil in Venezuela is really a class war brought on by the wealthy in an attempt to privatize the energy industry.
The wealthy are supported by outsiders wishing to cash in on the privatization.

I've been watching CBC television news as they interview "so called" citizen journalists about the troubles and it's very interesting
to take a look at the furnishings and decorations behind these "journalists" telling us how bad Maduro is.
These are not the homes of working class or poor citizens, these are the homes and possessions of the well off and very comfortable.


Take the so called political insights these actors offer with a grain of salt. What they offer is the perspectives of the well to do and the fortunate few.
I do not fight fascists because I think I can win.
I fight them because they are fascists.
Chris Hedges

A riot is the language of the unheard. -Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Message 1984654 - Posted: 12 Mar 2019, 3:09:57 UTC - in response to Message 1984593.  

hi marmot:

thank you for your post Re Venezuela,
i agree with you post.

also 1973: Chile

...


Heard of the details of Chile's coupe and Amy Goodman on Democracy Now! refers back to it several times a year.

What I do not understand is the why of it. The US, especially in the Americas, wants all over countries to guarantee access to develop their resources for our companies and every state must go into debt to our financial firms.
What resources in Chile were so important that the CIA did these things? Gold?

I want to read about the companies and vested economic interests that backed the US actions in '73.
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Message 1984659 - Posted: 12 Mar 2019, 3:31:21 UTC - in response to Message 1984654.  

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Message 1984662 - Posted: 12 Mar 2019, 3:37:59 UTC - in response to Message 1984625.  


I've been watching CBC television news as they interview "so called" citizen journalists about the troubles and it's very interesting
to take a look at the furnishings and decorations behind these "journalists" telling us how bad Maduro is.
These are not the homes of working class or poor citizens, these are the homes and possessions of the well off and very comfortable.


I noticed this too. Most of the pro Guaidó people interviewed by BBC or PBS don't need translators. They speak in college level English and one had a near mid-Western accent. At least they sent a reporter to one of the Chavista strongholds but they picked the woman who had no running water. I forgot the name of the fallacy where you pick an extreme example and present it as the norm. The news sources I've been trusting have been using this tactic on me for years.

After the research came out that it's easier to believe lies while your frontal cortex is occupied with other tasks; I either only listen to the news at 1.5x speed when I have my cross examining/lie detecting filter part of my brain fully involved or I slow podcasts down to 0.75 speed while working on other things so my brain has time to filter for lies, biases and faulty fact checking.

I started noting which reporters have extreme bias and presented me with false reporting and raised my threshold to believe anything that person reports in the future.
Like Yoland Nell of BBC equating a 50 caliber from Israeli snipers into the brain of a paraplegic man, 30 kids, or a medic as equivalent level of violence to a thrown rock. If her names on the report... maybe best to skip it.
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Message 1984664 - Posted: 12 Mar 2019, 3:49:21 UTC - in response to Message 1984659.  

Why? https://www.ourdocuments.gov/doc.php?flash=true&doc=23



Thankyou, I was reading about the Monroe Doctrine again yesterday while writing the OP.

With respect to Chile, the 'why' I refer to is what exact economic interests within Chile was the US seeking to control in the 70's.

A single line in the Wikipedia article and a source:

Theodore H. Moran, Multinational corporation and the politics of dependence: copper in Chile (Princeton, New Jersey: Princeton university Press, 1974), 6.

Chile demanding a fair price for it's copper would have driven up the cost of new buildings, a/c units, refrigeration and more.
The economic impact on the US may have amounted to billions?
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Message 1984717 - Posted: 12 Mar 2019, 10:51:17 UTC

Re: Venezuela - also 1973: Chile - The democratically elected President Salvador Allende of Chili was overthrown by the usa and it's puppet the Chilean armed forces and national police. This followed an extended period of social and political unrest between the right dominated Congress of Chile and Allende, as well as economic warfare waged by the U.S. government. Chile had one of the largest copper mines in the World at that time owned by an American Corporation -- As a prelude to the coup, the chief of staff of the Chilean army, René Schneider, a general dedicated to preserving the constitutional order, was assassinated in 1970 during a botched kidnapping attempt backed by the CIA. The regime of Augusto Pinochet that came to power with the coup is notable for having, murdered by conservative estimates, some 3200 political dissidents, including two American reporters -- imprisoned 30,000 (many of whom were tortured), and forced some 200,000 Chileans into exile. The CIA, through Project FUBELT (also known as Track II), worked secretly to engineer the conditions for the coup. The U.S. initially denied any involvement however many relevant documents have been declassified in the decades since.
Byron - Democratic Socialist.
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Message 1985088 - Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 13:44:01 UTC

Keep your eyes on the countries that have the largest rare earth deposits.

Chile is still critical for molybdenum (for the disulfide [url]https://www.k-state.edu/media/newsreleases/apr15/singh41615.html [/url]) and lithium.

The Democratic Republic of Congo is in constant state of war making the coltan cheap as the workers nor the government are strong enough to take control of the wages or reserves. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3280872/iPhone-mineral-miners-Africa-use-bare-hands-coltan.html

Afghanistan is sitting on a trillion dollars+ in mineral wealth https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-afghanistan-sitting-on-1t-in-minerals/
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Message 1986034 - Posted: 19 Mar 2019, 23:45:53 UTC

Hey, professor. The word is enemies.
That's two things wrong with your post.
The first being the post itself.
I do not fight fascists because I think I can win.
I fight them because they are fascists.
Chris Hedges

A riot is the language of the unheard. -Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Message 1986070 - Posted: 20 Mar 2019, 5:25:53 UTC - in response to Message 1986034.  

Hey, professor. The word is enemies.
That's two things wrong with your post.
The first being the post itself.



Which person in the thread is that directed at?
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Message 1986072 - Posted: 20 Mar 2019, 5:55:11 UTC - in response to Message 1985982.  
Last modified: 20 Mar 2019, 6:11:05 UTC

With the enormous oil reserves of Venezuela. Maduro, his supporter's and those who excuse him are the present enemy's of the desperate and starving people Valenzuela.


In a July 2017 private briefing with intelligence officials, President Donald Trump apparently asked why the US wasn’t at war with Venezuela, noting that “they have all that oil and they’re right on our back door.” -[url] https://www.vox.com/world/2019/2/20/18233394/mccabe-trump-venezuela-war-oil-lawrence[/url]

Kind of hard to develop and sell those reserves when the US oil industry wants to take over the development and sales of the resource.

See the history of Iran's nationalization of by Mohammad Mosaddegh. If you understood the Abadan Crisis and it's similarities to the current Venezuelan situation, you would understand why it is hard for Venezuela to even profit from it's oil reserves.

Venezuela doesn't want to be in the situation that Iran found itself after WWII with BP Oil's predecessor (AIOC) where Iran only got a 16% cut of the sales of it's oil reserves. From the CIA memo leading to Masaddegh's coup:

CIA report:

The target of this policy of desperation, Mohammad Mosadeq, [sic] was neither a madman nor an emotional bundle of senility as he was so often pictured in the foreign press; however, he had become so committed to the ideals of nationalism that he did things that could not have conceivably helped his people even in the best and most altruistic of worlds. In refusing to bargain—except on his own uncompromising terms—with the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company, he was in fact defying the professional politicians of the British government. These leaders believed, with good reason, that cheap oil for Britain and high profits for the company were vital to their national interests.


In a July 2017 private briefing with intelligence officials, President Donald Trump apparently asked why the US wasn’t at war with Venezuela, noting that “they have all that oil and they’re right on our back door.
” - https://www.vox.com/world/2019/2/20/18233394/mccabe-trump-venezuela-war-oil-lawrence

John Bolton repeats the same phrasing about 'backyard' and eopnely states the reason fro the US to invade Venezuela: ""Venezuela is one of the three countries i call the Troika of Tyranny," Bolton told Trish Regan. "It would make a difference if we could have American companies produce the oil in Venezuela. It would be good for Venezuela and the people of the United States."
https://www.rt.com/usa/449982-john-bolton-oil-venezuela/


If the US wanted to aid the people then a food for oil program would be a minimum starting point. Pulling off ALL sanctions and working with Venezuela like the US does with Vietnam, would be the best route. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/02/opinion/venezuela-juan-guaido-maduro.html
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Message 1987082 - Posted: 25 Mar 2019, 17:41:30 UTC

Here is the most current graph of the largest oil reserves I can find. Notice how the Orinoco reserves estimates increased dramatically as more research was gained after 2008. Notice that the US has toppled and taken control of, or given access to European oil companies, Libya (~1/2 of the Africa stripe) and Iraq. Now the US is fomenting regime change plans against Iran and Venezuela. Saudi Arabia and Kuwait are already close allies that the president sword dances with.



Venezuela has been a long time producer of oil but the reserves in the Orinoco belt were proven to hold the largest in the world in 2014.

"Venezuela is one of the world’s largest producers and exporters of crude oil. According to the Oil & Gas Journal (OGJ), in the beginning of 2014, Venezuela had nearly 298 billion barrels of proved oil reserves, the largest in the world followed by Saudi Arabia (266 billion barrels) and Canada (173 billion barrels). The vast majority of Venezuela’s proved oil reserves are located in its Orinoco heavy oil belt." -
http://youngpetro.org/2014/12/26/orinoco-belt-worlds-largest-untapped-reserve/


This is the prize that the Trump admin want it's hands on as stated by Bolten. The US has a great deal of Tiramisu, high extraction cost, reserves but the Orinoco reserves are low cost and easily extracted with much lower environmental impact.

Here is some more in-depth records on Venezuela's oil output:
http://crudeoilpeak.info/venezuela-peak
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Message 1987090 - Posted: 25 Mar 2019, 18:29:43 UTC - in response to Message 1986899.  


Yes, they are responsible for what they have done to the Venezuelan people.

Sorry, your and other supporter's and those who excuse and/or deny the evil Maduro Government are...


Absolutely not.

I am not in any way stating the Maduro's government is blameless. It failed to diversify and there has been corruption.

But there always is some corruption and governments and economies still grow.

OPEC, the US and Russia played chicken with the oil production and the prices dropped severely.

Maduro's government had NO control over the price drop and the lost income caused harm to Venezuela's people.

The US could have chosen to work with Venezuela, as they did with Vietnam, and effect growth of the Venezuelan economy, but instead it setup a sanction regime and held a hardline on debts Venezuela owed in US dollars. It did this after Chavez survived the Bush administration's, Elliiot Abrams greenlit and organized, coupe attempt of 2002. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/apr/21/usa.venezuela

Venezuela has lost 20 billions as result of US-led sanctions just in 2018:
https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/Venezuela-Lost-Millions-as-Result-of-US-led-Sanctions-Maduro-20190102-0013.html

"Every hyperinflation in history has been caused by foreign debt service collapsing the exchange rate."
"Venezuela and other countries that are carrying massive debts in currencies that are not their own are not sovereign." - Prof. Michael Hudson



------
Venezuelan banking law was changed after the 2009 world wide financial crisis. "Rachael Boothroyd said that the Venezuelan government was requiring the banks to give back. Housing was declared a constitutional right, and Venezuelan banks were obliged to contribute 15% of their yearly earnings to securing it. The government’s Great Housing Mission aimed to build 2.7 million free houses for low-income families before 2019."

That's 'evil'?
Guess your definition of evil differs from the Christian bible.

Isaiah 58:7
Is it not to share your bread with the hungry and bring the homeless poor into your house; when you see the naked, to cover him, and not to hide yourself from your own flesh?

Luke 14:13-14
But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the just.”

Proverbs 29:7
A righteous man knows the rights of the poor; a wicked man does not understand such knowledge.
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Message 1987272 - Posted: 26 Mar 2019, 19:26:06 UTC - in response to Message 1987101.  
Last modified: 26 Mar 2019, 19:38:31 UTC


This specific excuse of Maduro and his Government is a confirmation of what I said.


It absolutely is not.

It's as if you haven't read any thing posted above.

The US sanctions, the debt burden to pay in US dollars, the effect of the banking industry, the undermining actions of the US since 2002 coup attempt and the oil price nose dive are the major causes of the suffering in Venezuela. Maduro's government responsibility is limited.

The news media is promoting a path to war and hiding US responsibility.
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Message 1987275 - Posted: 26 Mar 2019, 19:34:24 UTC - in response to Message 1987272.  
Last modified: 26 Mar 2019, 19:35:51 UTC

It's as if you haven't read any thing posted above.


marmot, welcome to the Politics forum. I can tell somehow that you arrived here recently. 😆
It's just how things are done around here.
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Message 1987280 - Posted: 26 Mar 2019, 19:58:13 UTC - in response to Message 1987275.  
Last modified: 26 Mar 2019, 19:58:39 UTC


marmot, welcome to the Politics forum. I can tell somehow that you arrived here recently. 😆

Thanks for the welcome.


It's just how things are done around here.

Seems like it's not just around here.

What is the “backfire effect?” Most citizens “appear to lack factual knowledge about political matters,” write Brendan Nyhan and Jason Reifler. Nyhan and Reifler coined the term “backfire effect” to describe the way that even given evidence against their beliefs, people maintain their beliefs, actually becoming even more strongly convinced of said beliefs.
- https://daily.jstor.org/the-backfire-effect/

Caveat, this is still under research and not all people will "backfire" and not on all subjects. Religion and politics might be more susceptible.

• ... that while backfire may occur in some cases, the
the evidence now suggests it is rare rather than the norm,
and that generally debunking can make people’s beliefs in
specific claims more accurate.
• Two studies, from 2010 and 2012, found some evidence of
a backfire effect in certain circumstances.
• None of the five more recent studies looked at (from 2015,
2017, 2018 and 2019) have found any evidence of the
effect.
• The cases where backfire effects were found tended to be
particularly contentious topics
, or where the factual claim
being asked about was ambiguous.
• Our worldview may still affect the extent to which a debunk
might be effective.
- https://fullfact.org/media/uploads/backfire_report_fullfact.pdf
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Message 1987296 - Posted: 26 Mar 2019, 20:53:12 UTC - in response to Message 1987280.  

totally OT, er, anti-vaxer?
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Message boards : Politics : Venezuela's economic crisis was caused by US sanctions. US wants control over the largest oil reserves in the Americas.


 
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