Socialism

Message boards : Politics : Socialism
Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.

Previous · 1 . . . 12 · 13 · 14 · 15 · 16 · Next

AuthorMessage
Profile Clyde "Liberal" Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 9 Aug 99
Posts: 15065
Credit: 45,247,026
RAC: 748
United States
Message 1988025 - Posted: 30 Mar 2019, 18:06:08 UTC - in response to Message 1988021.  
Last modified: 30 Mar 2019, 18:06:49 UTC

Which brings us full circle again, and only re-enforces the adage..."Always Question Authority"...

The only 'power' others have over an individual are those granted them by the individual whether voluntarily or by acquiescence.

Dear JE... I edited my post before I saw your response.

I would also add "at the point of a gun to" to voluntarily and acquiescence

Only those trusting Authority, in spite of history's teachings, would believe in a Socialist future.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
--- George Santayana

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
--- Lord Acton
ID: 1988025 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Sirius B Project Donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 26 Dec 00
Posts: 20737
Credit: 2,806,523
RAC: 1,226
Ireland
Message 1988036 - Posted: 30 Mar 2019, 20:18:14 UTC - in response to Message 1988025.  

Only those trusting Authority, in spite of history's teachings, would believe in a Socialist future.
Coming from a former cop, that is actually hilarious. :-)
ID: 1988036 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile JaundicedEye
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 14 Mar 12
Posts: 4758
Credit: 30,704,143
RAC: 642
United States
Message 1988254 - Posted: 1 Apr 2019, 3:53:55 UTC

Apparently you also 'get what you vote for'.......

https://nypost.com/2019/03/30/her-heart-is-not-in-the-bronx-aocs-own-district-turns-against-congresswoman/amp/?fbclid=IwAR0lFmRIcg85Ix4pOfzpAzvU7ZMMG9qBFTNJdXcPvN32y_toXNMpW97tvgE
‘Her heart is not in The Bronx’: Ocasio-Cortez’s constituents turn against her

By Isabel Vincent
March 30, 2019 | 9:49pm
Amid her zeal to save the world with the Green New Deal, Rep. ­Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has ­ignored residents in her own Bronx back yard.

“I thought AOC would be our savior, but that’s not the case,” complained Roxanne Delgado, a local activist who said she has tried for months to get in touch with the congresswoman for help saving an animal shelter and to clean up parks in the district.

Delgado, 40, says she has made numerous calls to Ocasio-Cortez’s offices in Washington and Queens and sent a barrage of tweets after the freshman lawmaker encouraged residents during a recent visit to a Bronx public library to hit her up on social media.

But she’s heard nothing back.

“NO email or contact on @AOC’s page except DC number which has full #voicemail and no one picks up,” Delgado tweeted on Monday.


"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
ID: 1988254 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 25059
Credit: 47,058,582
RAC: 29,422
United States
Message 1988259 - Posted: 1 Apr 2019, 4:27:37 UTC

Sounds a lot like Mitch McConnell lecturing GOPers to toe the line doesn't it?
Given that officers are on the front line of anti-corruption efforts and thus face the test of maintaining their integrity, they must conscientiously accept the supervision of the Party and the people, exercise power with great caution, strictly abide by the law and Party discipline, and ensure supervisory power is exercised in a standard and correct manner.

They should first make absolute loyalty to the Party the foremost requirement for their work, bearing in mind their identity as Party members and their duty to the Party and the people. To do a better job, officers should also be armed with excellent professional ethics, profound professional knowledge and professional skills.


Now for bonus points, just how socialistic is it?
1) Sweden
2) Norway
3) Russia
4) Germany
5) China
6) Turkey
7) Ukraine
8) Kazakhstan
9) Democrats
10) GOP
ID: 1988259 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile betreger
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 29 Jun 99
Posts: 9173
Credit: 23,344,807
RAC: 22,987
United States
Message 1988262 - Posted: 1 Apr 2019, 4:51:56 UTC - in response to Message 1988254.  

Delgado, 40, says she has made numerous calls to Ocasio-Cortez’s offices in Washington and Queens and sent a barrage of tweets after the freshman lawmaker encouraged residents during a recent visit to a Bronx public library to hit her up on social media.

Eye so you think animal shelters are not a local problem but something the federal government should do?
ID: 1988262 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
moomin
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 21 Oct 17
Posts: 4387
Credit: 27,895
RAC: 32
Sweden
Message 1988516 - Posted: 3 Apr 2019, 1:48:39 UTC

Why Socialism?
From an article published May 1949.
https://monthlyreview.org/2009/05/01/why-socialism/
ID: 1988516 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile betreger
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 29 Jun 99
Posts: 9173
Credit: 23,344,807
RAC: 22,987
United States
Message 1988523 - Posted: 3 Apr 2019, 2:18:37 UTC - in response to Message 1988516.  

moomin, thanx for the great read. As one who was trained in economics I would say that man was a genius.
ID: 1988523 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile Wiggo "Democratic Socialist"
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 24 Jan 00
Posts: 16317
Credit: 210,344,560
RAC: 146,623
Australia
Message 1988525 - Posted: 3 Apr 2019, 2:28:12 UTC

+1
ID: 1988525 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 25059
Credit: 47,058,582
RAC: 29,422
United States
Message 1988538 - Posted: 3 Apr 2019, 3:56:23 UTC

Einstein wrote:
nowhere have we really overcome what Thorstein Veblen called “the predatory phase” of human development.

What an apt description of Capitalism, "predatory."
predatory |ˈpredəˌtôrē|
adjective
1 relating to or denoting an animal or animals preying naturally on others: predatory birds.
2 seeking to exploit or oppress others: a life destroyed by predatory biographers and yellow journalists.

Capitalism, "seeking to exploit or oppress others" or call it what it is, theft by fraud.
ID: 1988538 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
moomin
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 21 Oct 17
Posts: 4387
Credit: 27,895
RAC: 32
Sweden
Message 1988545 - Posted: 3 Apr 2019, 5:04:25 UTC - in response to Message 1988538.  
Last modified: 3 Apr 2019, 5:09:33 UTC

Hehe:)
Thorstein Veblen's parents who emigrated to the USA came from a Nordic country.

Quiz time.
Do we have Capitalism here in the Nordic countries?
Or Socialism?
I think most Americans will fail answering those questions.
Eh.. I meant people from the USA of course
ID: 1988545 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
moomin
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 21 Oct 17
Posts: 4387
Credit: 27,895
RAC: 32
Sweden
Message 1988623 - Posted: 3 Apr 2019, 20:19:46 UTC

OK. No answers to the quiz.
So here some normal things in the Socialist Nordic countries.
Being silent is normal
Not speaking to random strangers is normal
Not smiling is normal, unless you are drunk, or crazy, but you moved there, so…
Driving a manual is normal
Paying $7 for a gallon of gas is normal, if you would buy it by the gallon that is
Not having a car is very normal
Public transport is normal
Bicycling is normal
Walking is normal
Being fit instead of fat is normal
Metric is normal
Paying taxes is normal
Paying 25% sales tax is normal
Tax records being public is normal
Central heating is normal, Air Conditioning… what is A/C?
Not tipping is normal
Buying your alcohol from a government monopoly store is normal, except in Denmark
Having a half a dozen parties in parliament is normal
Having a socialist party in government is normal
Free healthcare is normal
Free education is normal
Free university is normal
Speaking several languages is normal
Being aware of the world is normal
Going to another country for the weekend is normal
All workers, union or not, being covered by comprehensive union agreements is normal
Getting equal pay is normal
Getting six weeks of holiday is normal
Being married to a woman is normal
Being married to a man is normal
Your employer caring if you are married to a man or a woman is not normal
You caring if someone is married to a man or a woman is not normal
Your employer, or anyone asking what ”race” you are is not normal, actually illegal
You caring what ”race” someone is, is not normal
Your employer caring if you are a man or a woman or what you do with a man or a women is not normal
You caring if someone is a man or a woman or what they do with a man or a woman is not normal
Getting a maternity or paternity leave is normal
Not taking your paternity leave is not normal
Getting a subsidised childcare leave for the first three years and returning to your old job is normal
Being a stay-at-home dad is normal
Telling your boss they are wrong is normal
Telling a customer they are wrong is normal
Not having warning signs for stupidity is normal
Not getting sued or suing someone is normal
Not having a lawyer is normal
Not needing a lawyer is normal
Filing in your own tax return is normal
National service is normal
Not having a gun is normal
Not getting shot by cops is normal
Not going to church is normal
Not having a religion is normal
Having a religion but not telling about it to everyone is normal
Being naked is normal
Sleeping a baby in the pram on the balcony in winter is normal
Leaving the baby in the pram in front of the shop is normal
Eating herring raw, salted, pickled and rotten is normal (the last only in Sweden though)
Being normal is normal, otherwise people will stare you normal
ID: 1988623 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile cRunchy
Volunteer moderator
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 2658
Credit: 1,638,404
RAC: 681
United Kingdom
Message 1988624 - Posted: 3 Apr 2019, 20:38:21 UTC - in response to Message 1988623.  
Last modified: 3 Apr 2019, 20:39:32 UTC

OK. No answers to the quiz.
So here some normal things in the Socialist Nordic countries.
Being silent is normal
Not speaking to random strangers is normal
Not smiling is normal, unless you are drunk, or crazy, but you moved there, so…l


list anon.....


An interesting list moomin .

The UK had many of those aspects to some degree between the 1940s to about 1980.

From 1979 when Thatcher came to power there has been a shift away from the social towards the individual so we have lost some ways of being that we should have cherished.

I often hear people talk with regret at the loss of social values.. Sadly that is just before they get into their individual car, go home to the house they bought from the community housing stock, use their individual washing machine and lock their doors to the social world around them.

We are funny creatures.
ID: 1988624 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
moomin
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 21 Oct 17
Posts: 4387
Credit: 27,895
RAC: 32
Sweden
Message 1988637 - Posted: 3 Apr 2019, 22:38:08 UTC - in response to Message 1988624.  

From 1979 when Thatcher came to power there has been a shift away from the social towards the individual so we have lost some ways of being that we should have cherished.
It happened here as well at that time. Many state owned enterprises like power companies, trains, postal service, many schools and hospitals, etc was sold to private companies. All for the benifit to us customers with lower prizes of course.
Did the prizes get lower? Of course not.
So here we are. Many that have and many that have not and the gap is widening...
ID: 1988637 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile SUPER NATIONALIST&SUPER PRIVILEGED I'm **in' RACIST; I'm **in' BIGOTED; I'm **in' PREJUDICED; I'm **in' JUDGEMENTAL; I **In' Have ALL dA CONSCIOUS & UNCONSCIOUS BIAS & ALL Other NASTIEs a HuWoMan Can **in' Have. ALL AGENDAs ALL dA **in' Kind of Gender
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 16 Jun 02
Posts: 4257
Credit: 6,264,558
RAC: 1,131
Russia
Message 1996810 - Posted: 4 Jun 2019, 21:41:38 UTC

Socialism is an intellectual Proteus, but to the men of my generation it came as the revolt of the workers. Rodbertus we never heard of and the Fabian Society we did not understand; Marx and Morris, the Chicago Anarchists, JUSTICE and Social Democratic Federation (as it was then) presented socialism to our minds. Hatherleigh was the leading exponent of the new doctrines in Trinity, and the figure upon his wall of a huge-muscled, black-haired toiler swaggering sledgehammer in hand across a revolutionary barricade, seemed the quintessence of what he had to expound. Landlord and capitalist had robbed and enslaved the workers, and were driving them quite automatically to inevitable insurrection. They would arise and the capitalist system would flee and vanish like the mists before the morning, like the dews before the sunrise, giving place in the most simple and obvious manner to an era of Right and Justice and Virtue and Well Being, and in short a Perfectly Splendid Time.....

.....I compared that Working Man of the poster with any sort of working man I knew. I perceived that the latter was not going to change, and indeed could not under any stimulus whatever be expected to change, into the former. It crept into my mind as slowly and surely as the dawn creeps into a room that the former was not, as I had at first rather glibly assumed, an “ideal,” but a complete misrepresentation of the quality and possibilities of things.....

.....Directly any of us young socialists of Trinity found ourselves in immediate contact with servants or cadgers or gyps or bedders or plumbers or navvies or cabmen or railway porters we became unconsciously and unthinkingly aristocrats. Our voices altered, our gestures altered.....

.....Even the tragic and inspiring idea of Marx, that the poor were nearing a limit of painful experience, and awakening to a sense of intolerable wrongs, began to develop into the more appalling conception that the poor were simply in a witless uncomfortable inconclusive way—“ muddling along”; that they wanted nothing very definitely nor very urgently, that mean fears enslaved them and mean satisfactions decoyed them, that they took the very gift of life itself with a spiritless lassitude, hoarding it, being rather anxious not to lose it than to use it in any way whatever.

H. G. Wells. The New Machiavelli
****************************************************************************

RUBEWorld IN DA MUD and LOVin' IT!!!!!

Muddy OHs and ONE GREAT SUPERTrump ORANGe YAPe



ID: 1996810 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile SUPER NATIONALIST&SUPER PRIVILEGED I'm **in' RACIST; I'm **in' BIGOTED; I'm **in' PREJUDICED; I'm **in' JUDGEMENTAL; I **In' Have ALL dA CONSCIOUS & UNCONSCIOUS BIAS & ALL Other NASTIEs a HuWoMan Can **in' Have. ALL AGENDAs ALL dA **in' Kind of Gender
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 16 Jun 02
Posts: 4257
Credit: 6,264,558
RAC: 1,131
Russia
Message 1996958 - Posted: 5 Jun 2019, 22:33:10 UTC

Socialism as a simple democratic cry we had done with for ever. We were socialists because Individualism for us meant muddle, meant a crowd of separated, undisciplined little people all obstinately and ignorantly doing things jarringly, each one in his own way. “Each,” I said quoting words of my father's that rose apt in my memory, “snarling from his own little bit of property, like a dog tied to a cart's tail.”

“Essentially,” said Willersley, “essentially we're for conscription, in peace and war alike. The man who owns property is a public official and has to behave as such. That's the gist of socialism as I understand it.” “Or be dismissed from his post,” I said, “and replaced by some better sort of official. A man's none the less an official because he's irresponsible. What he does with his property affects people just the same. Private! No one is really private but an outlaw....”

Order and devotion were the very essence of our socialism, and a splendid collective vigour and happiness its end. We projected an ideal state, an organised state as confident and powerful as modern science, as balanced and beautiful as a body, as beneficent as sunshine, the organised state that should end muddle for ever; it ruled all our ideals and gave form to all our ambitions.

H. G. Wells. The New Machiavelli
**************************************************************

SWEETNESS

RUBEWorld So Social

ORANGE as YAPe



ID: 1996958 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile betreger
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 29 Jun 99
Posts: 9173
Credit: 23,344,807
RAC: 22,987
United States
Message 1996969 - Posted: 5 Jun 2019, 23:14:26 UTC - in response to Message 1996958.  

Fantasy
ID: 1996969 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile Clyde "Liberal" Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 9 Aug 99
Posts: 15065
Credit: 45,247,026
RAC: 748
United States
Message 1996980 - Posted: 6 Jun 2019, 0:38:04 UTC - in response to Message 1996969.  

Fantasy

Yep...

The belief that Anti-Capitalist Socialism will not destroy the people and their economy. Is pure fantasy.

The "All Hail the Ruling Class Controlling Everything Socialists" believe, for some unknown reason, their fantasy.

IMHO: A Capitalist Social Welfare State. Using Capitalist profits for the peoples welfare. Is, at this time, the better of all systems.

BTW: Democrat Socialism, Democrat Nazism, Democrat Communism, et al, are all oxymorons.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
--- George Santayana

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
--- Lord Acton
ID: 1996980 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile Wiggo "Democratic Socialist"
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 24 Jan 00
Posts: 16317
Credit: 210,344,560
RAC: 146,623
Australia
Message 1996984 - Posted: 6 Jun 2019, 0:50:56 UTC

Gary - American's have no idea what socialism is ...
https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/446377-20-percent-of-americans-cant-define-socialism-even-as-its
Me - I didn't need a poll to tell me that, the evidence is here for all to see. :-D
WK - +1
iwazaru - +2

And was about to say the same goes for "far right"... and obviously when I say that I mean from a government perspective.
But then I remembered McCarthyism.
And now I'm wondering if that's why some of the old farts that grew up in those days are now seeing Reds under their Beds :P
From https://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=84194&postid=1996601
ID: 1996984 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile Clyde "Liberal" Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 9 Aug 99
Posts: 15065
Credit: 45,247,026
RAC: 748
United States
Message 1997022 - Posted: 6 Jun 2019, 12:28:03 UTC
Last modified: 6 Jun 2019, 12:29:52 UTC

Socialism is a Non-Capitalist Economy. With a few humans, all of whom are imperfect and a few are evil. Controlling not only the Government but confiscating private property and controlling the means of production.

The anti-economy/people Socialist Ruling Class will, as it has always and will always. Live the "good life" at the expense of the people.

An Anti-Socialist, Pro-Capitalist Social Welfare State is, as of now. The best system available.

As I have correctly observed:

Democratic Socialism, Democratic Communism, Democratic Nazism, et al. Are oxymorons.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
--- George Santayana

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
--- Lord Acton
ID: 1997022 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile JaundicedEye
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 14 Mar 12
Posts: 4758
Credit: 30,704,143
RAC: 642
United States
Message 1997027 - Posted: 6 Jun 2019, 13:35:49 UTC

....and The People of Venezuela are still starving in the dark. Credit to the Trump administration for halting cruise ship visits to Cuba. No longer adding to Castro's 100 million dollar fortune and financing the thugs protecting Maduro.

Notice how the lame stream media has lost interest in the story.

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
ID: 1997027 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Previous · 1 . . . 12 · 13 · 14 · 15 · 16 · Next

Message boards : Politics : Socialism


 
©2019 University of California
 
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.