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Message 1980960 - Posted: 18 Feb 2019, 4:41:05 UTC - in response to Message 1980955.  

We must, to a great extent, limit the power we give to humans.

@Clyde, who should be in power? If you say no one then you are advocating anarchy.
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Message 1980990 - Posted: 18 Feb 2019, 13:02:21 UTC - in response to Message 1980960.  
Last modified: 18 Feb 2019, 13:18:11 UTC

We must, to a great extent, limit the power we give to humans.

@Clyde, who should be in power? If you say no one then you are advocating anarchy.

Dear betreger,

Since the Power you give your friends will be at sometime in the future be taken by your enemies.

Why would any sane person wish to consolidate more and more and more Power in the hands of imperfect humans, some of which will be evil?

You trust Trump types with Total Power over Law, Regulations and under Socialism, the means of Production?

If not...
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
--- George Santayana

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
--- Lord Acton
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Message 1980992 - Posted: 18 Feb 2019, 13:14:40 UTC - in response to Message 1980959.  

So in your opinion if the US goes socialist, it is going to end up like Cuba, China or even Venezuela.

When actually the aim might be to become more like the Nordic countries with a lack of government interference in business affairs, have no minimum wage rules, have unions that negotiate wages, have good schools and health programs. And the workers are generally healthier, have good incomes and probably more importantly, rated as being happier than US citizens.

Since Socialist believe in a Ruling Class controlling everything.

I believe that we agree, that as of this time, the best we can do is a Capitalist Social Welfare State.

However, one must understand that many successful people, Nordic in this case, Have a culture that is a reason for their success. Not necessary their economic system.

Attempting to import another culture into yours. Be it Nordic, Japanese, etc. in an attempt to emulate their success is impossible.

All peoples, because of their many differences. Will have different paths to what we hope will be their success.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
--- George Santayana

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
--- Lord Acton
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Message 1980994 - Posted: 18 Feb 2019, 13:22:39 UTC - in response to Message 1980990.  

You trust Trump types with Total Power over Law, Regulations and under Socialism, the means of Production?
That's called Communism or Marxism, not Socialism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism
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Message 1980995 - Posted: 18 Feb 2019, 13:23:05 UTC - in response to Message 1980992.  

Since Socialist believe in a Ruling Class controlling everything.

That only occurs in countries that go for a communist socialist system. You seem to be saying this is the model the US will follow if the left wing of the Democrat party wins power.

If that were to happen, might you not see a similar response, from some congress members, as occurred in the UK this morning, see Brexit thread.
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Message 1980996 - Posted: 18 Feb 2019, 13:25:17 UTC - in response to Message 1980994.  
Last modified: 18 Feb 2019, 13:25:53 UTC

You trust Trump types with Total Power over Law, Regulations and under Socialism, the means of Production?
That's called Communism or Marxism, not Socialism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

Socialism, social and economic doctrine that calls for public [Government] rather than private ownership or control of property and natural resources.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/socialism
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
--- George Santayana

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
--- Lord Acton
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Message 1980997 - Posted: 18 Feb 2019, 13:39:20 UTC - in response to Message 1980995.  
Last modified: 18 Feb 2019, 13:41:34 UTC

Since Socialist believe in a Ruling Class controlling everything.

That only occurs in countries that go for a communist socialist system. You seem to be saying this is the model the US will follow if the left wing of the Democrat party wins power.

If that were to happen, might you not see a similar response, from some congress members, as occurred in the UK this morning, see Brexit thread.

Socialism means a Ruling Class [Government Officials] controlling everything, including Private Property and the Means of Production.

Those that deny that imperfect humans, some of which will be evil, will not use this power to...

Well, they should understand human history and what happens when great power in consolidated into the hands of a few.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
--- George Santayana

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
--- Lord Acton
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Message 1980998 - Posted: 18 Feb 2019, 13:44:13 UTC - in response to Message 1980992.  

However, one must understand that many successful people, Nordic in this case, Have a culture that is a reason for their success. Not necessary their economic system.
LOL:) Are you suggesting that the Nordic culture is different to the US culture?
So why are most TV broadcasting here is American programmes and also advertising in American not Swedish even though it's a Swedish company selling. And here we can see the US flag flying. Yes even the Confederate flag flying, very strange but it's true:)
Many more examples.
Hehe:) Some think that Sweden will be the 51'st state of the USA before Puerto Rico.
But hey, Swedish is more easy to learn than Spanish:)
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Message 1980999 - Posted: 18 Feb 2019, 13:47:12 UTC - in response to Message 1980998.  
Last modified: 18 Feb 2019, 13:50:08 UTC

However, one must understand that many successful people, Nordic in this case, Have a culture that is a reason for their success. Not necessary their economic system.
LOL:) Are you suggesting that the Nordic culture is different to the US culture?
So why are most TV broadcasting here is American programmes and also advertising in American not Swedish even though it's a Swedish company selling. And here we can see the US flag flying. Yes even the Confederate flag flying, very strange but it's true:)
Many more examples.
Hehe:) Some think that Sweden will be the 51'st state of the USA before Puerto Rico.
But hey, Swedish is more easy to learn than Spanish:)

Yes, our Cowboy Culture, the German Culture, the Italian Culture, the Russian Culture, etc. are different from yours.

Do you believe that your people would have no trouble incorporating the Russian Culture and their Beliefs?
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
--- George Santayana

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
--- Lord Acton
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Message 1981000 - Posted: 18 Feb 2019, 13:54:34 UTC - in response to Message 1980997.  
Last modified: 18 Feb 2019, 14:30:45 UTC

Since Socialist believe in a Ruling Class controlling everything.

That only occurs in countries that go for a communist socialist system. You seem to be saying this is the model the US will follow if the left wing of the Democrat party wins power.

If that were to happen, might you not see a similar response, from some congress members, as occurred in the UK this morning, see Brexit thread.

Socialism means a Ruling Class [Government Officials] controlling everything, including Private Property and the Means of Production.

Those that deny that imperfect humans, some of which will be evil, will not use this power to...

Well, they should understand human history and what happens when great power in consolidated into the hands of a few.

No that is communism. way out left of socialism.

Below, you will see some of the most socialistic nations in the world today:

Denmark
Finland
Netherlands
Canada
Sweden
Norway
Ireland
New Zealand
Belgium

There is a different list here https://www.thetoptens.com/socialist-countries/

These are communist
China
North Korea
Cuba
Laos
Vietnam
Angola

edit] look at a list of countries that use "Democratic" in their name. https://petervojtek.github.io/diy/2015/05/19/countries-with-democracy-in-name.html
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Message 1981003 - Posted: 18 Feb 2019, 15:00:47 UTC - in response to Message 1980999.  

Yes, our Cowboy Culture, the German Culture, the Italian Culture, the Russian Culture, etc. are different from yours.
Do you believe that your people would have no trouble incorporating the Russian Culture and their Beliefs?
Your Cowboy Culture?
Do you know that the many of your Cowboy TV series very populary in the 60's and and 70's was directed by Swedes like Gunnar Hellström?
How the West Was Won.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_the_West_Was_Won_(TV_series)
And another one Aldrin (don't remember his first name) that also comes from Värmland like Trump:)
Anyway. Your Cowboy Culture is very different to our Cowboy Culture in Europe.
Here it's boys moving a heard with a stick not men with a gun.
Then why a gun? Actually been there and done that. I even remember her name Julia.

Now Sweden and Russia.
Actually we have already adopted a lot of the Russian Culture over the 1000 years being neighbors.
However we are also very Russophobia, that is what Russian/Kremlin think at least and always promoted by Russian media like Sputnik and RT.
The reason of our Russophobia that's called "Ryssen kommer" here:)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_between_Russia_and_Sweden
Blin! As long they stay at her borders (note Gotland is not Russian) everything is OK.
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Message 1981006 - Posted: 18 Feb 2019, 15:25:12 UTC

Will a Socialist US go the same way as Cuba? Venezuela? DPRK?............

No one knows.

But the point is The People cannot gamble that it won't turn out the same.

"You can vote a society into Socialism.........but you have to shoot your way out of it."

This has been demonstrated repeatedly....Hungary, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, with some being successful, some not. And it's being demonstrated NOW in Venezuela and to a lesser degree in France(yellow vest insurrection).

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
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Message 1981008 - Posted: 18 Feb 2019, 15:40:48 UTC

I've created this thread for discussion of this issue as it is derailing the Donald Trump thread. I will try to move only posts that do not reference him or his presidency and discuss socialism independently of same here. Thank you.
“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.”
---Margaret Mead
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Message 1981009 - Posted: 18 Feb 2019, 15:51:39 UTC

When will Americans learn that socialism and communism are two different political systems?

I know some communist countries call themselves socialist, but it is the same as my example previously about "Democratic states" that are democratic in name only, the same applies, they are social in name only.
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Message 1981014 - Posted: 18 Feb 2019, 16:49:28 UTC - in response to Message 1981000.  

Below, you will see some of the most socialistic nations in the world today:

Canada


And now you know why the USA doesn't need or have a wall on its northern border.
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Message 1981031 - Posted: 18 Feb 2019, 19:03:56 UTC

Many Americans are like the Simpsons:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuysyatYqnw
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Message 1981297 - Posted: 20 Feb 2019, 15:30:09 UTC

Hopefully the correct thread........



"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
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Message 1981305 - Posted: 20 Feb 2019, 16:19:17 UTC

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Message 1981325 - Posted: 20 Feb 2019, 17:31:07 UTC - in response to Message 1981305.  

America’s more capitalist sports fans commonly acknowledge that their country’s most popular sports, like the National Football League and the National Basketball Association, have several rules that would please a Scandinavian social democrat.
Hehe:) Perhaps. For instance Zlatan Ibrahimović from Rosengård, Malmö, who are now playing football in Galaxy, Los Angeles with an income of roughly $27 million a year.
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Message 1981338 - Posted: 20 Feb 2019, 18:27:56 UTC

A comment on this thread is that certain posters do not know the difference between Marxist socialism and democratic socialism.
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