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Message 1984464 - Posted: 10 Mar 2019, 22:26:01 UTC

It's you who can't separate Communism from a Social Democracy Clyde.

A 1 track mind possibly or is it just that you just don't want to understand what others do?
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Message 1984468 - Posted: 10 Mar 2019, 22:45:33 UTC

I'll just refer you back to this Clyde.
So instead of spending your holidays down in South America why don't you start spending them in Canada, New Zealand or even here and actually learn something useful for a change?

Also do some homework on how the governments of those 3 countries work and you may then understand where your country is going so wrong.
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Message 1984684 - Posted: 12 Mar 2019, 6:07:25 UTC - in response to Message 1984007.  
Last modified: 12 Mar 2019, 6:14:20 UTC


What is Socialism?


There are many forms. Every keeps jumping back the the authoritarian version of Stalin and ignore the anarcho types such as the Spanish Revolution. (It's so ignored that none of the news media covers it's roots in the Catalan separatists movement. Catalan was governed by the socialists for 3 years, is the largest wealth producing region of Spain and it still retains much of it's anarcho-socialist culture.)

The anarcho socialists who I had long talks with in the Green Party groups want democracy in all places.

They want the pickers in Amazon's warehouses to elect their foreman and to elect the executive in charge of their division from suitable candidates.
They don't want the CEO to impose overseers.
They want companies to be worker owned collectives with democratic decision processes.

I suggested that one step would be to outlaw stock proxies. If you want companies to be more responsible then all stock owners need to take part in elections governing the corporation; don't allow stock owners to sign away their voting responsibility.

None of his focus was on government control of means of production. He and many of the young members of the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) are focused on worker ownership; not taking away private property of workers.

Private ideas developed into products are fine and should stay private or collectively owned. Where they want more government control (ie citizen control) is over public resources: water, air, oil, copper, waste products... Extractive companies are getting welfare in the form of paying less than the resources they extract and polluting without cleanup. The local community where the resources are taken are not getting any wealth sharing from the resource. The citizens own the oil, own the water, own the air.

Tribal reservations are socialist in that they share profits of the casino's with the citizens. It's a decent way to guarantee a basic income.

Why should any sports team have the revenues accumulate into the hands of a single billionaire owner who forces the city to build a multi-billion sports arena? That owner wants an arena then they need to pay for it. When the St Louis Rams owner decided to move the team; the city should have forced him to pay the remaining bonds on the arena he stuck them with and when he refused; used power of eminent domain and took ownership of the Rams as a city company.

Something needs to change.
Amazon didn't only NOT pay federal taxes for the last two years; they got welfare payments last year of $139 million while our national debt is rising at $1.5 million per minute.
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Message 1984866 - Posted: 13 Mar 2019, 0:55:57 UTC - in response to Message 1984865.  

Egypt and Israel. .
Interesting. Was that on the same passport?
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Message 1984907 - Posted: 13 Mar 2019, 7:37:01 UTC

Well it seems that you just can't seem to get those few grey cells of yours away from the purest of socialism, there are other less extreme forms of it so I'll just refer you back to this again.
I'll just refer you back to this Clyde.
So instead of spending your holidays down in South America why don't you start spending them in Canada, New Zealand or even here and actually learn something useful for a change?
Also do some homework on how the governments of those 3 countries work and you may then understand where your country is going so wrong.
:-)
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Message 1984948 - Posted: 13 Mar 2019, 15:34:14 UTC - in response to Message 1984868.  

The Passport used wasn't Irish
You really do have a fixation on nationality. I asked that question for a reason. Throughout the 70's & 80's, there was a major issue with Egypt.

One could visit Egypt 1st then Israel but not the other way round. I see several European countries on that list of yours, Britain beneath you was it?
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Message 1985092 - Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 13:56:26 UTC - in response to Message 1984865.  
Last modified: 14 Mar 2019, 13:56:56 UTC

We did find the Mayan ruins in the Yucatan Peninsula,


Did you visit any Mayan towns and trade with Mayan people while in Central America?

They mostly live in Guatemala now and are a significant percentage of the migrants rushing to the US southern border because of the crimes being committed against their areas, (still).
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Message 1985789 - Posted: 18 Mar 2019, 14:49:16 UTC

Another advantage of 'socialized' medicine...........control.

‘It Is Unspeakable’: How Maduro Used Cuban Doctors to Coerce Venezuela Voters.
In interviews, 16 members of Cuba’s medical missions to Venezuela — a signature element of relations between the two countries — described a system of deliberate political manipulation in which their services were wielded to secure votes for the governing Socialist Party, often through coercion.

Many tactics were used, they said, from simple reminders to vote for the government to denying treatment for opposition supporters with life-threatening ailments.

The Cuban doctors said they were ordered to go door-to-door in impoverished neighborhoods, offering medicine and warning residents that they would be cut off from medical services if they did not vote for Mr. Maduro or his candidates.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/17/world/americas/venezuela-cuban-doctors.html
....Yup! That's the system I want...........(/sarcasm font)

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
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Message 1985811 - Posted: 18 Mar 2019, 16:25:20 UTC - in response to Message 1985789.  

Eye, you are conflating socialism, which is an economic system with autocracy which is a form of government.
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Message 1985840 - Posted: 18 Mar 2019, 18:17:05 UTC - in response to Message 1985811.  

Eye, you are conflating socialism, which is an economic system with autocracy which is a form of government.


Of course he is.
As always.
And, since Clyde says people don't change, Eye will continue to do so.
Even when he's been told to the contrary.
Explained to.
Had the explanation justified.
Aye.
This is why I leave for extended periods of time, among other things.
Aye.
Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.
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Profile Byron Leigh Hatch @ team Carl Sagan
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Message 1985841 - Posted: 18 Mar 2019, 18:19:31 UTC

health insurance in canada,

The U.S. spent 15.3% of GDP on healthcare in 2006; Canada spent 10.0%. In 2006, 70% of healthcare spending in Canada was financed by government, versus 46% in the United States. Some of the noted differences were a higher life expectancy in Canada, as well as a lower infant mortality rate than the United States.

Yet, even if some cannot find a family doctor, every Canadian citizen is covered by the national health care system. In the U.S., the federal government does not guarantee universal healthcare to all its citizens but the us government does publicly funded healthcare programs to provide for the elderly, disabled, the poor, and children.,

approximately 90% of Canadian family doctors are not Government employees, but are private businessmen, who sent their bills for services render to: we the people - the Government owned single payer ----- Privately owned hospitals in Canada, almost all Americans and almost all Canadians believe hospitals are publicly owned and accountable institutions, under provincial legislation 95% operate on a non-profit basis. Most of Canada's approximately 850 hospitals are owned and operated by non-profit, voluntary organizations.

Private Clinics. In addition to public health care providers such as primary care doctors and hospitals, many private clinics offering specialized services also operate in Canada. Under federal law, private clinics are not legally allowed to provide services covered by the Canada Health Act.

in Canada if you earn (approx.) - $20,000 Canadian Dollars or Less = ($14,989 in US Dollars) you pay no income tax, also you pay no healthcare Premiuns. you pay no deductables, no caps (if it costs one Million Dollars to treat your Cancer you pay nothing under the Canada Health Act every Canadian citizen is covered by the national health care system.
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Message 1985845 - Posted: 18 Mar 2019, 18:41:25 UTC - in response to Message 1985843.  

Eye, you are conflating socialism, which is an economic system with autocracy which is a form of government.

Socialism, as many other Government controlled economic systems. Is giving a few imperfect humans, some of whom will be evil, centralized control over all the individual people under their authority.

Socialism is just another form of Government Autocracy. Be it Religious or Secular,

Oh, like a kibbutz?
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Message 1985847 - Posted: 18 Mar 2019, 18:59:44 UTC - in response to Message 1985846.  

Who supports a few humans controlling Government and the means of production in a population of millions, 10's of millions or 100's of millions?
I don't.
So any idea on how it is all controlled in an orderly fashion?
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Message 1985849 - Posted: 18 Mar 2019, 19:07:02 UTC - in response to Message 1985846.  

Then qualify your statements and stop making absolute statements.
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Message 1985851 - Posted: 18 Mar 2019, 19:11:23 UTC - in response to Message 1985850.  

Once more, do you have a viable answer?
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Message 1985853 - Posted: 18 Mar 2019, 19:25:22 UTC - in response to Message 1985852.  

Chubby Checker you are not, so answer the question.
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Message 1985859 - Posted: 18 Mar 2019, 20:01:23 UTC - in response to Message 1985854.  

Do you have another viable answer to our problems?
Yes Sirius B,
You are 'Twisting' in the wind
Once more, do you have a viable answer?
Can't you ever come up with an "original" idea? Continue blowing. :-)
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Message 1985869 - Posted: 18 Mar 2019, 20:46:35 UTC - in response to Message 1985854.  
Last modified: 18 Mar 2019, 20:58:08 UTC

#2 - A Capitalist Social Welfare State. Using the wealth provided by Capitalism for the people's good.
Most Western countries among the OECD countries are in that category.
More or less I would say.
But the gap between the rich and poor among us citizens is widening.

Do we have a problem? Yes I think so.
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Message 1985880 - Posted: 18 Mar 2019, 21:54:51 UTC - in response to Message 1985840.  

Aye.
This is why I leave for extended periods of time, among other things.
Aye.

Have you tried filter? Results in clean pure water.
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Message 1985885 - Posted: 18 Mar 2019, 22:02:16 UTC - in response to Message 1985880.  

True but the taps are not perfect hence the constant drips. :-)
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Message boards : Politics : Socialism


 
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