GPU Wars 2019: 7nm (Navi reviews)

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Profile iwazaru
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Message 1978041 - Posted: 1 Feb 2019, 0:33:01 UTC

I watched this about a week ago and decided it's time for a new thread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8EONokJTdU

(pinned comment shows you where you need to go if you don't feel like watching the whole thing)

Should be fun to watch Navi vs NVidia 7nm!

- - - - - -

On a side note, I wanted to do a thread on my laptop but May started here with over 30 degrees Celsius! And so it went for most of the summer... HP's cooling leaves a lot to be desired :( However it WAS fun to watch much of heatstroked Northern Europe cry harder than an Italian football player rolling on AstroTurf while begging for his mama! :P
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Message 1978287 - Posted: 2 Feb 2019, 16:19:11 UTC - in response to Message 1978041.  

I watched this about a week ago and decided it's time for a new thread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8EONokJTdU

(pinned comment shows you where you need to go if you don't feel like watching the whole thing)

Should be fun to watch Navi vs NVidia 7nm!

- - - - - -

On a side note, I wanted to do a thread on my laptop but May started here with over 30 degrees Celsius! And so it went for most of the summer... HP's cooling leaves a lot to be desired :( However it WAS fun to watch much of heatstroked Northern Europe cry harder than an Italian football player rolling on AstroTurf while begging for his mama! :P


You can buy a "cooling table" that sits under your laptop and provides additional air circulation. It helped when I was experimenting with some netbooks years ago. I had one that could either run off a USB port or be driven by an external powersupply.

Tom
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Message 1979140 - Posted: 7 Feb 2019, 17:59:02 UTC - in response to Message 1978287.  

Thanx Tom, unfortunately it's the out-of-the-box CPU temps that are miserable and I doubt a cooling pad would help much. "Waste" of a perfectly good i7 really.

But I have stuck some half-inch silicone raising thingies underneath so airflow should be ok-ish...
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Message 1979143 - Posted: 7 Feb 2019, 18:06:27 UTC
Last modified: 7 Feb 2019, 18:08:12 UTC

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Message 1979199 - Posted: 7 Feb 2019, 23:16:47 UTC

It's looking like the original release of Ryzen.
They have made big gains against Nvidia, but haven't actually caught up. Further driver work will help with performance, but it's concerning that even with this 7nm node the power levels are still way more than Nvidia on their optimised 16nm node (apparently called "12nm FinFET NVIDIA (FFN)").
I suspect that what they learn from this release will help to some degree with their Navi release (although noises are that production will be tighter than tight, so availability will likely be very, very low).

It's interesting that one of the biggest complaints is about the price, but I think that's the way it's going to be for a year or 2.
AMD have shrunk down an existing product, and used some of the spare space for extra memory. Nvidia used a heavily tweaked existing manufacturing process, and then used every possible square mm on huge dies.
The end result for both is low yields. As processes improve, yields will improve, but it's going to be a much slower rate of improvement than it has been in the past. The smaller things get, the greater the complications become and just tweaking a single stage in the manufacturing process can impact on dozens of other stages- usually in a bad way.

Until 10/7nm becomes the current manufacturing node (not the bleeding cutting edge it is at present), products- particularly so the high end ones- are going to continue to cost a bundle. And a huge bundle at that.
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Message 1981600 - Posted: 22 Feb 2019, 1:46:21 UTC - in response to Message 1979199.  

Been on vacation so that's why I'm only just now replying to this :)

Everything below is just rumors & non-verifiable (for now):

- heard the HBM alone (on the VII) costs something like 300 bucks.
- heard Navi hit a snag so they rushed this out (and in low availability)
- heard Navi will be cheap.
- heard Navi will be mid-range (initially?)
- heard Navi might release late Summer
- heard AMD got sample back from TSMC and was VERY impressed with Navi performance.

Heard something else also interesting if true. That for the 700 series Nvidia focused on making a "pure" gaming GPU. Which would be kinda funny (again, if true) considering a "gaming" arch produced an outlier like the 750ti in perf/watt for SETI :)

Anyhow, Navi vs Nvidia 7nm should be fun to watch!
(Will do my best to keep this thread up-to-date with rumors & announcements but any/all help is more than welcome)
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Message 1993580 - Posted: 12 May 2019, 21:09:55 UTC
Last modified: 12 May 2019, 21:10:41 UTC

I'm "only" a COUPLE weeks late! :P

AMD: 7nm ‘Navi’ GPU & 'Rome' CPU to Launch in Q3
https://www.anandtech.com/show/14286/amd-7nm-navi-gpu-and-rome-cpu-to-launch-in-q3

Unfortunately Jim's unimpressed by the Navi leaks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg-o1wtE-ww
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Message 1993632 - Posted: 13 May 2019, 14:19:45 UTC - in response to Message 1981600.  

Been on vacation so that's why I'm only just now replying to this :)

Everything below is just rumors & non-verifiable (for now):

- heard the HBM alone (on the VII) costs something like 300 bucks.
- heard Navi hit a snag so they rushed this out (and in low availability)
- heard Navi will be cheap.
- heard Navi will be mid-range (initially?)
- heard Navi might release late Summer
- heard AMD got sample back from TSMC and was VERY impressed with Navi performance.

Heard something else also interesting if true. That for the 700 series Nvidia focused on making a "pure" gaming GPU. Which would be kinda funny (again, if true) considering a "gaming" arch produced an outlier like the 750ti in perf/watt for SETI :)

Anyhow, Navi vs Nvidia 7nm should be fun to watch!
(Will do my best to keep this thread up-to-date with rumors & announcements but any/all help is more than welcome)


I saw those posts about AMD wouldn't try a "moonshot" to go heads on with the RTX 2080 which really is too bad. As long as Nvidia has the bragging rights for the top end consumer gpu AMD will be "2nd place" (or 3rd of Intel really does get going on gpus).

Don't get me wrong, selling a lot of mid-range gpu's that are competitive with Nvidia's RTX lineup will be very good for AMD's bottom line. But then so would delivering a "king of the hill" gpu (especially if they could ship a lot of them).

Tom
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Message 1993659 - Posted: 13 May 2019, 21:26:05 UTC - in response to Message 1993632.  

Yeah, for the past couple of years it feels like AMD literally can't afford to compete with Nvidia. It's like they just don't have enough money.
I doubt they're ever going to try and make a 815mm squared piece of silicone like the Titan V. And even during the mining craze it was like they were drip-feeding the market with cards. Like they had a hard limit on cash allocation or something. I guess we'll never really know...

331 mm squared for the Radeon VII is... tiny for a flagship. Though come to think of it, apparently GCN (which Navi is too) has a hard limit of 64 CUs so they can't go any bigger even if they wanted to. I guess they painted themselves in a corner? Maybe next arch (after Navi)...

I bet we'll be seeing chiplets too in a year or two. Like Crossfire/SLI but on the same package.


TL;DR Looks like it'll be a year or three* before AMD is competitive again in the "high" end (and that's if they even want to)
* I say "three" because they might be waiting for some other node from TSMC to go all-out. Just a hunch.
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Message 1993661 - Posted: 13 May 2019, 21:52:38 UTC
Last modified: 13 May 2019, 21:53:23 UTC

I just watched the Part 2 analysis of Navi on Adored TV. The summation is that the product will be forgettable and not competitive. The best comment was that the AMD engineers " can't wait to forget about Navi and move on to the next generation"

The power consumption reduction they were counting on with the move to TSMC 7nm process node to compete with Turing did not happen. The only thing that will come out of it will be cards cheaper than Nvidia.
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Message 1993664 - Posted: 13 May 2019, 22:12:57 UTC - in response to Message 1993661.  

The best comment was that the AMD engineers " can't wait to forget about Navi and move on to the next generation"


Yeah, that one sure stood out :)
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Message 1993691 - Posted: 14 May 2019, 2:32:25 UTC

That's a bummer if its true. I was hoping for Navi to be energy efficient and at least somewhat competitive in the mid to low range of GPUs.
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Message 1993702 - Posted: 14 May 2019, 5:04:24 UTC

My only problem with the latest Navi doom & gloom rumors is... Raja Koduri. He's supposed to be a super-star. And Navi was his baby.
Something doesn't add up.
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Message 1993704 - Posted: 14 May 2019, 5:20:21 UTC - in response to Message 1993702.  

I think a lot of blame likely will fall to TSMC's 7nm process node.
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Message 1994675 - Posted: 22 May 2019, 1:51:57 UTC

https://wccftech.com/amd-navi-rx-3080-3070-performance-prices-leak-beat-2070-at-499-2060-at-399/

While this is a rumor it is also consistent with previous rumors on this subject. Plus potential guidance on the possible pricing.

The article offers prices on the two new navi cards that put them within the same price area as the NVIDIA cards. While the writer talks about previous price guesses that were considerably cheaper I have been thinking about AMD's "margins".

Financially speaking while AMD is doing well in gaining marketshare in the areas it is now competing in but it really isn't gaining a lot of profits. To gain more profits more quickly AMD needs higher margins. And I think this is exactly what the GPU's pricing at that level means.

The article also claims that there will not be additional hardware support for Ray Tracing. If so, I expect AMD to go with the software solution(s) that have been recently floated.

Since the "next" rumors are for a generational change in the gpu architecture I guess we are going to have to wait to see a full "king of the hill" attack mounted by AMD on NVIDIA (and/or Intel, if Intel really get going gpus like they are claiming).

Tom
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Message 1994688 - Posted: 22 May 2019, 3:28:26 UTC

I assume with its resources, Intel will eventually mount a compelling challenger for the two existing players in the marketplace. They did hire away a ton of talent from both camps.
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Message 1994717 - Posted: 22 May 2019, 12:00:19 UTC

And apparently there will be an "official" announcement on May 27th.
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Message 1995413 - Posted: 27 May 2019, 0:38:24 UTC
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Message 1995427 - Posted: 27 May 2019, 6:16:50 UTC

AMD Teases First Navi GPU Products: RX 5700 Series Launches in July, 25% Improved Perf-Per-Clock
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Message 1995445 - Posted: 27 May 2019, 12:09:09 UTC - in response to Message 1995427.  
Last modified: 27 May 2019, 12:29:14 UTC

AMD Teases First Navi GPU Products: RX 5700 Series Launches in July, 25% Improved Perf-Per-Clock


I watched part of the Live Stream. Enough to catch the demo of being able to run 10% faster than a RTX 2070 on the same game. If that kind of performance (equal or faster) is coupled with less power draw, then they have an absolute winner in that Niche in the gpu wars. Even if they don't have a "King of the Hill" gpu.

I thought I heard the CEO claim that the newest Navi would have the generation past GCN for the architecture design. If so, that means the Navi VII is no longer the possible top end card.

Tom
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"If its Tourist Season why can't we shoot them?" (another bumper sticker)
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Message boards : Number crunching : GPU Wars 2019: 7nm (Navi reviews)


 
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