Unless there is damage to a conductor, like a nick, that reduces the cross-section area of the wire, the point of failure in a cable with connectors is going to be at the connector-connector interface because that is a higher point of resistance than anywhere along the wire which has a static resistance per length. The connector interface with higher resistance is going to heat up more with amperage flowing through and it will likely fail because of overheating the tin metal contacts or melting the plastic housing of the connector. Lots of experience with failed contacts or connectors with a career in electronics repair and maintenance. The only time a piece of wire overheated was when the entire length of wire became a fuse link because of 1000X expected instantaneous current flow through the wire because of circuit failure.

---

Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours

A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association)

Keith,

I know you've used NiChrome wires to launch solid fuel rockets. And admit it, every electronics guy has short circuited an outlet with a magnesium wire just to watch the fireball:)

JUST KIDDING READERS. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME........

Thanks for the help the other day with the blanked Boinc file.

v/r,

Mike

---

Keith,

I know you've used NiChrome wires to launch solid fuel rockets. And admit it, every electronics guy has short circuited an outlet with a magnesium wire just to watch the fireball:)

JUST KIDDING READERS. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME........

Thanks for the help the other day with the blanked Boinc file.

v/r,

Mike

Ha ha . . . you know me too well Mike. Been there . . . .done that.

---

Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours

A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association)

Keith,

I know you've used NiChrome wires to launch solid fuel rockets. And admit it, every electronics guy has short circuited an outlet with a magnesium wire just to watch the fireball:)

JUST KIDDING READERS. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME........

Thanks for the help the other day with the blanked Boinc file.

v/r,

Mike

Ha ha . . . you know me too well Mike. Been there . . . .done that.

Or the old magnesium strips that they use to put in old school wooden rulers. :-D

Cheers.

Stop suggesting to people what you yourself would do just because you think we should do it your way. I was explaining what I did to make my PC look good to me. I see nothing wrong with someone making their PC look as they want it to. If they want to have all that RGB lighting all through, more power to them, it's their choice. I don't believe that adding extensions to the PSU cables is going to increase any failure rate. Adding mine made my PC look better and have yet to fail which I doubt will ever happen in my lifetime.

Have a great day! :)
Siran

Thanks for that, Siran...my thoughts exactly :)
Same setup here. My PC has a full glass window, it sits in my living room and is a part of my environment. So yes, aesthetics DO come into it, nothing wrong with it being pleasing to the eye.

I'm going for wires that are both thicker and shorter than the Corsair originals, thus improving safety. I can measure it out so the cables don't have coils of extra length ithat need to be stuffed somewhere. Besides being ugly, the originals are longer than what I need....as an example, the 8-pin PCIe cables are 775mm. Quite a roundtrip length.
Cables will be bought from a reputable company that do this for a living and set high standards for their work. So I choose to trust they know what they're doing. They get all my specs, and every cable is thoroughly tested before being shipped. Don't know what more I can do.

...Ghia...

Hi Ghia,

You're quite welcome! :)

Through the years with all the PCs I have built, I have always built them to MY specs for form, function and finally aesthetics. I didn't really get my current case because it had the glass window, I got it for it's form and function. I actually got it because I was going to build a web server but found out it was against the ISPs Terms of Service. The window was just an added bonus I guess. My previous case had a side panel with a grid of holes and mounting holes for a very large fan. I did not like the way it looked, but I tolerated it. Again, I got it for form and function. Haha, I even did as Chris S said I should do and bolted cardboard over the holes long before he suggested I do that with my beautiful new case. THAT made it look even more hideous. lol So I pulled the cardboard figuring airflow was more important.

I've been in these fora for many years reading advice given, getting advice and all that kind of stuff. I have not seen anyone else that gives advice or instructions actually give the impression that one should do it their way, not like this guy. Several months ago he insisted that I started using BOINC because Classic SETI was shut down. That was NOT the case. In May 1999, Classic was still running. I don't remember when it was shut down finally, but it was NOT before I went with BOINC.

Anyway, good luck with your new cabling and have a great day! :)

Siran

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

Unless there is damage to a conductor, like a nick, that reduces the cross-section area of the wire, the point of failure in a cable with connectors is going to be at the connector-connector interface because that is a higher point of resistance than anywhere along the wire which has a static resistance per length. The connector interface with higher resistance is going to heat up more with amperage flowing through and it will likely fail because of overheating the tin metal contacts or melting the plastic housing of the connector. Lots of experience with failed contacts or connectors with a career in electronics repair and maintenance. The only time a piece of wire overheated was when the entire length of wire became a fuse link because of 1000X expected instantaneous current flow through the wire because of circuit failure.

Hi Keith,

I googled connector failures a WHOLE bunch yesterday and found nothing at all about connector failure rates. I do believe you in that, yes, connectors can fail. I just don't believe in the 99.9% failure rate.

I did find something out about PSUs and electrolytic capacitors yesterday. PSUs have a shelf life of about 2 years without being powered up. From what I read, the electrolytic caps can start to degrade after that. They can start leaking and whatever. I have a brand new PSU stashed as a replacement. It's just over a year since I bought it. I pulled it out and did the paperclip test just to power it for a few seconds to get the caps powered up. A few years ago, I heard a popping sound that woke me up. My PC was dead. I figured it was the PSU so I replaced it and sure enough, that was the problem. I heard something rattling in the old one and shook out a can from an electrolytic cap. I still have that can. The cap blew the can off of it.

Have a great day! :)

Siran

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

Hi Ghia,

You're quite welcome! :)

Through the years with all the PCs I have built, I have always built them to MY specs for form, function and finally aesthetics. I didn't really get my current case because it had the glass window, I got it for it's form and function. I actually got it because I was going to build a web server but found out it was against the ISPs Terms of Service. The window was just an added bonus I guess. My previous case had a side panel with a grid of holes and mounting holes for a very large fan. I did not like the way it looked, but I tolerated it. Again, I got it for form and function. Haha, I even did as Chris S said I should do and bolted cardboard over the holes long before he suggested I do that with my beautiful new case. THAT made it look even more hideous. lol So I pulled the cardboard figuring airflow was more important.

I've been in these fora for many years reading advice given, getting advice and all that kind of stuff. I have not seen anyone else that gives advice or instructions actually give the impression that one should do it their way, not like this guy. Several months ago he insisted that I started using BOINC because Classic SETI was shut down. That was NOT the case. In May 1999, Classic was still running. I don't remember when it was shut down finally, but it was NOT before I went with BOINC.

Anyway, good luck with your new cabling and have a great day! :)

Siran

Tnx again, Siran. I have also always built my machines for function foremost. When I build, I build a machine that will keep me happy for at least 5 years without lagging behind too much. So I go for the best components I can find (alas, also the most expensive), and it has worked for me since I built my first one in the early nineties. The one I have now was built in 2013, but is still doing a good job and has never let me down to this day. Still, when I put this kind of money into my new build, I would like it to also look good. I hate PCs that actually deserve to be hidden away somewhere.. ;-)
I haven't yet rounded 2 years on this forum, but have learned a lot here. I mostly stay out of discussions, though. But "live and let live", I say.
A great day to you too, Siran !
...Ghia...

---

Humans may rule the world...but bacteria run it...

A thought for the side window ...
I bought a black magnetic sign sheet (for automotive advertising on doors etc.) to cut up and cover fan openings and such where I didn't want air to flow in cases.
That would likely be wide enough to cover the entire side panel on a case. Maybe some 2-sided tape on the window itself.

---

Hi Ghia,

You're quite welcome! :)

Through the years with all the PCs I have built, I have always built them to MY specs for form, function and finally aesthetics. I didn't really get my current case because it had the glass window, I got it for it's form and function. I actually got it because I was going to build a web server but found out it was against the ISPs Terms of Service. The window was just an added bonus I guess. My previous case had a side panel with a grid of holes and mounting holes for a very large fan. I did not like the way it looked, but I tolerated it. Again, I got it for form and function. Haha, I even did as Chris S said I should do and bolted cardboard over the holes long before he suggested I do that with my beautiful new case. THAT made it look even more hideous. lol So I pulled the cardboard figuring airflow was more important.

I've been in these fora for many years reading advice given, getting advice and all that kind of stuff. I have not seen anyone else that gives advice or instructions actually give the impression that one should do it their way, not like this guy. Several months ago he insisted that I started using BOINC because Classic SETI was shut down. That was NOT the case. In May 1999, Classic was still running. I don't remember when it was shut down finally, but it was NOT before I went with BOINC.

Anyway, good luck with your new cabling and have a great day! :)

Siran

Tnx again, Siran. I have also always built my machines for function foremost. When I build, I build a machine that will keep me happy for at least 5 years without lagging behind too much. So I go for the best components I can find (alas, also the most expensive), and it has worked for me since I built my first one in the early nineties. The one I have now was built in 2013, but is still doing a good job and has never let me down to this day. Still, when I put this kind of money into my new build, I would like it to also look good. I hate PCs that actually deserve to be hidden away somewhere.. ;-)
I haven't yet rounded 2 years on this forum, but have learned a lot here. I mostly stay out of discussions, though. But "live and let live", I say.
A great day to you too, Siran !
...Ghia...

Hi Ghia,

I made a BIG OOPS in my reply to you. I said, "In May 1999, Classic was still running." That was when I joined SETI@Home. I dug around and found the proof that I was running BOINC when Classic SETI WAS still running. My first PC listed for BOINC was attached on April 3, 2005 and it was running Windows Millennium Edition. I found this forum thread where Matt Lebofsky lists reasons why Classic was "shutting down". That post was in December 10, 2005. According to Wikipedia, Classic ended December 15, 2005. Ok, my BIG OOPS has been fixed. ;)

I was checking out my backup PSU yesterday and it is semi-modular. The motherboard and CPU power cables are built into the PSU and they are all black ribbon cables. The modular cables are also black ribbon cables. I would not hesitate to use that PSU in this PC without my extensions. But, as I mentioned, it's a backup. I had an electrolytic capacitor blow in a PSU a few years ago, PC went dead. :( Good reason to have a spare, huh? ;)

Have a great day! :)

Siran

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

A thought for the side window ...
I bought a black magnetic sign sheet (for automotive advertising on doors etc.) to cut up and cover fan openings and such where I didn't want air to flow in cases.
That would likely be wide enough to cover the entire side panel on a case. Maybe some 2-sided tape on the window itself.

Hi Brent,

Now that's a great idea, magnetic sign sheet. You could cut it to size and paint it flat black and who would ever know there were holes under it. I'll have to try to remember that. I still have the case if I decide to build another PC for say, a home entertainment server or something. There's no room in my room for another PC. ;)

I don't want to cover my glass window. :) Perhaps I'll take a few pics so it can be seen why I don't want to cover the window.

Have a great day! :)

Siran

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

Hi Ghia,
I made a BIG OOPS in my reply to you. I said, "In May 1999, Classic was still running." That was when I joined SETI@Home. I dug around and found the proof that I was running BOINC when Classic SETI WAS still running. My first PC listed for BOINC was attached on April 3, 2005 and it was running Windows Millennium Edition. I found this forum thread where Matt Lebofsky lists reasons why Classic was "shutting down". That post was in December 10, 2005. According to Wikipedia, Classic ended December 15, 2005. Ok, my BIG OOPS has been fixed. ;)

I was checking out my backup PSU yesterday and it is semi-modular. The motherboard and CPU power cables are built into the PSU and they are all black ribbon cables. The modular cables are also black ribbon cables. I would not hesitate to use that PSU in this PC without my extensions. But, as I mentioned, it's a backup. I had an electrolytic capacitor blow in a PSU a few years ago, PC went dead. :( Good reason to have a spare, huh? ;)

Have a great day! :)

Siran

Consider the ooops fixed :-) I ran Seti Classic for a time in the late nineties also.
My current PSU is a Corsair Axi 860...it has been running almost 24/7 without fault since 2013. I COULD have moved it to the new build, but will consider it my back up. Haven't decided yet whether to let this old workhorse trundle on, just running S@H, or to take it down.

---

Humans may rule the world...but bacteria run it...

Hi Ghia,
I made a BIG OOPS in my reply to you. I said, "In May 1999, Classic was still running." That was when I joined SETI@Home. I dug around and found the proof that I was running BOINC when Classic SETI WAS still running. My first PC listed for BOINC was attached on April 3, 2005 and it was running Windows Millennium Edition. I found this forum thread where Matt Lebofsky lists reasons why Classic was "shutting down". That post was in December 10, 2005. According to Wikipedia, Classic ended December 15, 2005. Ok, my BIG OOPS has been fixed. ;)

I was checking out my backup PSU yesterday and it is semi-modular. The motherboard and CPU power cables are built into the PSU and they are all black ribbon cables. The modular cables are also black ribbon cables. I would not hesitate to use that PSU in this PC without my extensions. But, as I mentioned, it's a backup. I had an electrolytic capacitor blow in a PSU a few years ago, PC went dead. :( Good reason to have a spare, huh? ;)

Have a great day! :)

Siran

Consider the ooops fixed :-) I ran Seti Classic for a time in the late nineties also.
My current PSU is a Corsair Axi 860...it has been running almost 24/7 without fault since 2013. I COULD have moved it to the new build, but will consider it my back up. Haven't decided yet whether to let this old workhorse trundle on, just running S@H, or to take it down.

Hi Ghia,

I discovered I made another oops in fixing my first oops. The PC was created in April 2005, but it was not my first on BOINC. I either merged the first one with it or deleted the first one. I was posting in these fora back at least to October 2004. So Classic was going for over a year after I discovered BOINC. :) Woohoo! :)

My current and backup are Thermaltake PSUs, current an M850w and the backup a M650w, both 80+ Bronze. I haven't had any problems with the current one... yet. ;)

Have a great day! :)

Siran

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

Hi Ghia,

My current and backup are Thermaltake PSUs, current an M850w and the backup a M650w, both 80+ Bronze. I haven't had any problems with the current one... yet. ;)

Have a great day! :)

Siran

Let's hope it stays that way ! I always get Platinum, the difference in cost is not all that great.

...Ghia...

---

Humans may rule the world...but bacteria run it...

I think you are taking the "99.9%" reference out of context. What the OP meant was that in a high current failure situation, the most probable point of failure would be at the connector-connector interface. It is just electrical physics of I²R = heating in play. One of the things you want to in a high current carrying interface is to make the resistance of the junction as low as possible to prevent I²R heating. You either do that with large contact area or large mechanical pressure force.

---

Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours

A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association)

I think you are taking the "99.9%" reference out of context. What the OP meant was that in a high current failure situation, the most probable point of failure would be at the connector-connector interface. It is just electrical physics of I²R = heating in play. One of the things you want to in a high current carrying interface is to make the resistance of the junction as low as possible to prevent I²R heating. You either do that with large contact area or large mechanical pressure force.

Hi Keith,

I had to google I2R to know what it is. Basically, heat is wasted energy, unless, as in the case of a toaster, the heat is what is wanted.

With the low voltage and amperage in today's PCs I still highly doubt that failure is 99.9% on the connectors. As I mentioned to you, or someone, the other day, I had an electrolytic capacitor blow on a PSU. That has nothing to do with connectors. My roommate's PSU started shutting down and restarting her PC over and over. I found out it was overheating because the fan control circuit quit working. I replaced it with a new PSU and tested the "broken" one. It still worked, just not the fan. No connectors involved there either.

Yes, I understand what you are saying. With connectors and extensions there is higher resistance and a "potential" for failure. But I don't believe that failure is caused, 99.9% of the time, by connectors, at least not in today's PCs. Just look at all the connectors there are in a PC. All the peripherals are connected using connectors. There's 4 connectors per drive, unless it's an M.2 drive, then it's one connector. The 2 on the drive and the 2 connecting it to power and a data port.

Anyway, thanks for telling me about I2R. I knew about V=IxR and other basic like R=V/I and I=V/R. Now I know about I2R in my old age. ;)

Have a great day! :)

Siran

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

I think I finally see your point of view. You are ascribing the "99.9%" of failure to the entire PSU. I thought we were talking about PSU cables, modular cables and extension cables. Yes the electrolytic caps can be a source of failure in a PSU. So can the MOSFETS and driver transistors for the switching circuit. We generally say the output of the modern PSU is a low voltage device but I would not describe it as a " low voltage and amperage in today's PCs " as you have done. The 12V rail in a 1200W PSU can deliver 100A of current. Back when the GTX 970 came out, it used to have a minimum spec of 38A on the 12V line. That is not "low amperage" Anytime you have high current flowing through a conductor, the chance of heating occurs at the highest point of resistance in the cable. That is most assuredly at the connectors.

---

Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours

A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association)

I think I finally see your point of view. You are ascribing the "99.9%" of failure to the entire PSU. I thought we were talking about PSU cables, modular cables and extension cables. Yes the electrolytic caps can be a source of failure in a PSU. So can the MOSFETS and driver transistors for the switching circuit. We generally say the output of the modern PSU is a low voltage device but I would not describe it as a " low voltage and amperage in today's PCs " as you have done. The 12V rail in a 1200W PSU can deliver 100A of current. Back when the GTX 970 came out, it used to have a minimum spec of 38A on the 12V line. That is not "low amperage" Anytime you have high current flowing through a conductor, the chance of heating occurs at the highest point of resistance in the cable. That is most assuredly at the connectors.

Hi Keith,

Touche. ;) I see your point now too. I guess I'm not as smart as I thought I was. I had no idea that there could be that high an amperage flowing from these PSUs. Remind me never to stick my fingers in one when it's running. ;)

I only took basic electronics back in High School in the 60s. Built a tube type AM radio that worked. Freaking wires everywhere; looked like spaghetti. I do know that it's not the voltage that kills, it's the amperage.

So basically if the right set of circumstances come up, where high amperage is involved, 99.9% of the time it will be connectors that fail. Ok, I can see that. And yes I was talking about the PSU cables, modular and extension cables.

Thanks and have a great day! :)

Siran

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

I do know that it's not the voltage that kills, it's the amperage.

Actually its both. You need enough volts to drive enough current to overcome the natural resistance of the body. Documented death by 42V DC. And any current greater than 10mA forces muscular paralysis where you can't let go. But you can grab a Van deGraff generator at a million volts safely because the current is extremely low, like picoamps.

---

Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours

A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association)