Astropulse error with AMD/ATI GPU?

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Message 1973120 - Posted: 3 Jan 2019, 2:15:16 UTC

I have noticed today that I have four Astropulse GPU WUs that had errors. This is on my new Ryzen computer with integrated GPU (Ryzen 3 2200G, with Radeon Vega 8 integral graphics). I am running Radeon 18.12.2 drivers (not the optional 18.13.2). Is anyone else having errors with these WUs? I am having some return back completed on the GPU, so not every WU is having a problem. For what its worth, I have not received errors for any S@H v8 GPU WUs, or any errors for CPU WUs (Astropulse or otherwise). I did notice that my app_config did not have a dedicated CPU for the GPU for Astropulse (only for S@H v8). I have since added it, so we'll see if the error continues.
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Message 1973188 - Posted: 3 Jan 2019, 12:20:06 UTC - in response to Message 1973120.  

Yes, I have a 50% error rate with my AMD astropulse tasks. I finally stopped doing astropulse tasks to not ruin the results data in case my wingman also had the same issue.
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Message 1973718 - Posted: 6 Jan 2019, 0:55:12 UTC - in response to Message 1973188.  

Yes, I have a 50% error rate with my AMD astropulse tasks. I finally stopped doing astropulse tasks to not ruin the results data in case my wingman also had the same issue.

I have had a few more errors on Astropulse tasks running on AMD GPU, even with a dedicated CPU. So, I agree, it is probably best to stop crunching GPU tasks for Astropulse.
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Message 1973783 - Posted: 6 Jan 2019, 10:38:28 UTC

no error with my AP tasks and my HD7750 ^^

perhaps need a new application for AMD RX GPU series
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Message 1973785 - Posted: 6 Jan 2019, 10:43:13 UTC

I can see both of you are running on a 4 core CPU.

How many instances are running on CPU ?
You have to keep at least one CPU core free.
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Message 1973799 - Posted: 6 Jan 2019, 13:24:18 UTC - in response to Message 1973785.  

I ran 3 CPU tasks, leaving 1 core free,
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Message 1973801 - Posted: 6 Jan 2019, 13:46:49 UTC

Mike is quite correct that a GPU task requires support from 1 CPU core to work properly. So on a four core machine 1 x GPU and 3 x CPU is required. But as I understand it, that means a real core not a virtual core. I.e. a four core CPU with HT will give 8 threads, therefore you need to reserve 2 threads for the GPU and only run 6 CPU tasks.

I also don't like running CPU's at more than 90% loading 24/7, so I adjust the computing preferences percentage use accordingly. The same goes for GPU usage, you need to juggle whether you run 1,2, or 3 tasks per card, depending upon the achieved output. With the budget level cards which is all I can afford to run, 1 task per card is fine. If you are up into the 2080 territory then the sky's your limit!

Some years ago I ran all ATI cards, now I run all Nvidia cards. Many people have confirmed that the Set@ home project performs better on Nvidia cards, whilst other Boinc projects thrive better on AMD/ATI cards. This will be found by experimentation.
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Message 1973803 - Posted: 6 Jan 2019, 14:02:45 UTC

The argument about "real" vs. "hyper" cores has raged for a very long time - in reality the difference in performance is not as big as one might expect. When hyper-threading is active there are two processes active on each core (well, more or less) and so the effective processing rate on each "real" or "virtual" core is about half that of a core on the same processor when non-hyper-threaded. Setting aside a CPU core (real or hyper-threaded) is required, while setting aside two cores on a hyper-threaded CPU does not mean that you end up with the equivalent performance of a single non-hyper-threaded core because SETI is not coded to use multiple cores (hyper or otherwise).
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Message 1973812 - Posted: 6 Jan 2019, 15:05:27 UTC
Last modified: 6 Jan 2019, 15:06:44 UTC

Great reply, Rob I learnt something there!

setting aside two cores on a hyper-threaded CPU does not mean that you end up with the equivalent performance of a single non-hyper-threaded core because SETI is not coded to use multiple cores (hyper or otherwise).

It seemed logical to me to assume what I did, but I didn't know about Seti's lack of multiple core coding.

Hmmm. Multiple core CPU's have been around for some years, way back to Pentium D's in 2005. So the question begging to be asked is why hasn't SETI coding moved with the times? Most Modern CPU's are multi core and HT capable.
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Message 1973817 - Posted: 6 Jan 2019, 15:34:28 UTC

Because no volunteer has stepped forward to totally re-write the CPU application to use multiple CPUs. It is quite probable that the actual performance improvement for a muti-threaded (CPU) application would not be linear as there would need to be a large amount of time spent re-syncing the data at the end.
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Message 1973821 - Posted: 6 Jan 2019, 15:48:04 UTC

I have a twin hex core Xeon X5650 machine with HT that runs 24 cores. But even then a single decent 980Ti would knock spots off those twin CPU's. I guess the wholesale move to GPU crunching is the main reason why no development work was done on CPU matters.
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Message 1973824 - Posted: 6 Jan 2019, 16:48:33 UTC - in response to Message 1973801.  

Mike is quite correct that a GPU task requires support from 1 CPU core to work properly. So on a four core machine 1 x GPU and 3 x CPU is required. But as I understand it, that means a real core not a virtual core. I.e. a four core CPU with HT will give 8 threads, therefore you need to reserve 2 threads for the GPU and only run 6 CPU tasks.
I see what you are saying, but my computer has no hyper threading. 4 cores, 4 threads total. I have been running S@H with 3 CPU WUs and (1 CPU + 1 GPU) WU being crunched at the same time. WFIW, I'm running at 100% with no cooling issues whatsoever. S@H v8 has had no errors running like this, only a few instances of Astropulse v7 GPU WUs.

I also don't know if there is a difference that my GPU is integrated, compared to Lunker's discrete Radeon, but it does seem like we are both having similar problems.

If this is a bug in the way the WUs are processed then I guess there is nothing I can do; I wanted to check and see if anyone else was having the same problem and if they found a way to fix it.

Setting aside a CPU core (real or hyper-threaded) is required, while setting aside two cores on a hyper-threaded CPU does not mean that you end up with the equivalent performance of a single non-hyper-threaded core because SETI is not coded to use multiple cores (hyper or otherwise).
Forgive me because its been a long time since I took a basic computer architecture class, but even if you set aside two threads (for GPU WUs, or just to have free for other processes), is the code written so that those two threads would be from the same CPU?


I guess the wholesale move to GPU crunching is the main reason why no development work was done on CPU matters.
I would be curious to know what the percentage of WUs crunched are CPU WUs vs GPU WUs. On one hand I could see GPU WUs being a higher percentage because they work fast, but on the other hand I could see that more "casual" crunchers are doing CPU work only. Couple that with the fact that more CPUs are having more cores, I would think that keeping the code up to date for newer CPUs would be important. Of course, that's just me talking from the armchair here.
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Message 1973829 - Posted: 6 Jan 2019, 17:11:36 UTC
Last modified: 6 Jan 2019, 17:12:50 UTC

We are talking about AMD GPU not nvidia.
It doesn`t matter if you keep a virtual or a physical core free for such GPU`s.
AMD drivers only need a little bit of resources from the CPU.
That`s the reason i only said one core.


Also the fact is MB`s seems to run O.K. on both computers.

So add the following line to the ap_cmdline**.txt file.

Usually its empty.
On stock app its named different.

-oclFFT_plan 256 16 256 -tune 1 64 4 1 -tune 2 64 4 1 -cpu_lock_fixed_cpu 3 -hp

Save as txt.

Beware you need one core free.
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Message 1973830 - Posted: 6 Jan 2019, 17:13:55 UTC - in response to Message 1973824.  

Greetings,

What is "WFIW"? I Googled it and all I found was an AM radio station in Illinois.

Have a great day! :)

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Message 1973852 - Posted: 6 Jan 2019, 18:54:02 UTC - in response to Message 1973830.  

What is "WFIW"? I Googled it and all I found was an AM radio station in Illinois.
That is me not proofreading, I mean for what its worth, FWIW.

We are talking about AMD GPU not nvidia.
It doesn`t matter if you keep a virtual or a physical core free for such GPU`s.
AMD drivers only need a little bit of resources from the CPU.
That`s the reason i only said one core.


Also the fact is MB`s seems to run O.K. on both computers.

So add the following line to the ap_cmdline**.txt file.

Usually its empty.
On stock app its named different.

-oclFFT_plan 256 16 256 -tune 1 64 4 1 -tune 2 64 4 1 -cpu_lock_fixed_cpu 3 -hp

Save as txt.

Beware you need one core free.

MB = motherboard? I'm confused.
For the addition to the ap_cmdline, I am assuming it should be my ap_cmdline_7.09_windows_intelx86__opencl_ati_100.txt file? The other two in the directory have "CPU" in the text file, so I assume that is not related to GPU tasks.
And what does the addition to the command line do exactly? I'm asking as someone that knows enough to be dangerous.
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Message 1973858 - Posted: 6 Jan 2019, 19:22:05 UTC - in response to Message 1973852.  

Greetings Bill,

Ah, now I know what you meant. Thanks! :)

Have a great day! :)

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Message 1973902 - Posted: 6 Jan 2019, 23:10:19 UTC - in response to Message 1973852.  

What is "WFIW"? I Googled it and all I found was an AM radio station in Illinois.
That is me not proofreading, I mean for what its worth, FWIW.

We are talking about AMD GPU not nvidia.
It doesn`t matter if you keep a virtual or a physical core free for such GPU`s.
AMD drivers only need a little bit of resources from the CPU.
That`s the reason i only said one core.


Also the fact is MB`s seems to run O.K. on both computers.

So add the following line to the ap_cmdline**.txt file.

Usually its empty.
On stock app its named different.

-oclFFT_plan 256 16 256 -tune 1 64 4 1 -tune 2 64 4 1 -cpu_lock_fixed_cpu 3 -hp

Save as txt.

Beware you need one core free.

MB = motherboard? I'm confused.
For the addition to the ap_cmdline, I am assuming it should be my ap_cmdline_7.09_windows_intelx86__opencl_ati_100.txt file? The other two in the directory have "CPU" in the text file, so I assume that is not related to GPU tasks.
And what does the addition to the command line do exactly? I'm asking as someone that knows enough to be dangerous.


With MB i`m talking about seti_v8 tasks.

Yes, the file you mentioned is the right one.

I think your last question is a little more complex.
The first part of the command line is just a little structuring of some kernels.
The second part will adjust CPU affinity of the GPU.
Usually core 0 and 1 are used by GPU app, this command will just pin the GPU task to core 4 in your case.
This should help getting the resources your computer needs.
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Message 1973904 - Posted: 6 Jan 2019, 23:24:39 UTC - in response to Message 1973902.  

Thank you, I added this to the command line text. I’ll run this for awhile and report back what happens.
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Message 1974950 - Posted: 12 Jan 2019, 19:33:37 UTC - in response to Message 1973904.  

Yup, I'm still getting errors for AP7 GPU WUs. I do notice that any that are queued up in BOINC have an estimated runtime of 0:00. I have only encountered a few more, but that is because AP is few and far between. Basically, any AP7 GPU WUs I receive end in an error.

Any other ideas? Otherwise I think I will need to stop running them.
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Message 1974959 - Posted: 12 Jan 2019, 21:01:52 UTC

With a zero estimated run-time then it is hardly surprising that all the APs fail on your AMD APU, there is a trap to detect tasks that are taking far too long (I think its ten times the estimate, but given a zero estimate a few seconds will be "fat too long").
I can think of two ways that might allow APs to run on that computer.
Detach and then re-attach the computer, giving a few hours between the two steps - a bit of a "nuclear option"
Reset the project on that computer.
Both of these should clear out any wrongly set performance values, personally I would try the "reset" first.
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Message boards : Number crunching : Astropulse error with AMD/ATI GPU?


 
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