To get work I have to reset Seti@Home every morning

Questions and Answers : Windows : To get work I have to reset Seti@Home every morning
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Message 1965125 - Posted: 14 Nov 2018, 15:42:45 UTC

To get work I have to reset Seti@Home every morning - on two different systems running Windows 10 version 1809. Boinc is latest version and Boinc/Seti settings and options are all at default (as best I can determine). I suspect Windows 10 is doing something overnight that stops communication with Seti servers? Windows 10 was updated yesterday, 11/13/18, with latest updates and still not getting work without resetting/update Seti every morning. Seti is only project. I made no changes since reinstalling Boinc and Seti. What I see in the morning is 3 to 5 lines in the Tasks tab, so it looks like communication is truncated. Lan is hard wired (no WIFI involved). Once the systems are re-set the tasks tab is near full screen and everything runs normally till the next morning. I check late at night and work is being processed as expected. This problem started a month or two ago. What do I check next?
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Message 1965990 - Posted: 18 Nov 2018, 6:04:51 UTC - in response to Message 1965125.  

Posting the Event log both before you reboot (if possible) and after rebooting could be helpful.

I think there are also some diagnostic flags for the Event log that you can turn on but am hazy about which might be helpful.

Is there any chance they are getting too hot? (He said while shivering :)

HTH,
Tom
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Message 1966004 - Posted: 18 Nov 2018, 7:48:46 UTC

Have you accidently clicked on the button that toggles between "show all tasks" and "show active tasks"?
The message is what will happen when you next click the button and so confuses many....
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Message 1966183 - Posted: 19 Nov 2018, 18:39:29 UTC - in response to Message 1965990.  
Last modified: 19 Nov 2018, 19:12:35 UTC

I will look for the event log. Over the long term I haven't had any problems or reason to find the event log. The only other problem has been the Nvidia GPU not processing work, but I solved this by downloading the Nvidia device drivers and that solved the problem, however, the GPU is not processing again and I have downloaded the latest Nvidia drivers and it did not solve the problem this time, so the GPU on both computers is not doing Seti work. I think both of these problems started about the same time. Around the time that Windows 10 version 1809 was causing people to loose data. I don't keep any data in the Win 10 folders, so if Seti stores something there, I wouldn't know it was gone. On both computers: My data is safe on HDD 1. The OS is on SSD 0. Seti data is in the default Seti location.
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Message 1966185 - Posted: 19 Nov 2018, 18:51:09 UTC - in response to Message 1965990.  

Overheating should not be a problem. I use lots of 9 blade fans and the graphics drivers are GeForce GT520 and GT640. One is in a 60 degree F garage and the other is in a 68 degree room. Exhaust air is barely warm. Oh, I should add the older computer is on Windows 10 1803 and is not getting version 1809 (now on hold by Microsoft). Reliability of Windows 10 speaks for itself.
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Message 1966187 - Posted: 19 Nov 2018, 18:54:22 UTC - in response to Message 1966004.  

The screen is displaying all tasks, so the button reads "Show active tasks"
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Message 1966451 - Posted: 21 Nov 2018, 17:05:52 UTC - in response to Message 1966187.  

Tuesday, November 20, 2018 - Windows 10 Update installed update for Adobe Flash Player (used by ???). Wednesday, November 21, both computers running Seti@home. And they are both using their CPUs. Windows Update was the only change to either systems. Explanation for this or is it a miracle? :)
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Message 1966594 - Posted: 22 Nov 2018, 15:03:21 UTC - in response to Message 1966451.  

iGNORE previous post. GPU not working. Other system not downloading work and no GPU. Switch to Linux and uninstall Seti? I'm tired of public betas and continual fail-fix-fail-fix-fail fix . . . No such thing as quality and reliability in the software industry?
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Message 1966647 - Posted: 22 Nov 2018, 20:36:18 UTC - in response to Message 1966187.  

The screen is displaying all tasks, so the button reads "Show active tasks"


If you click on the "show active tasks" it might help you see what is running and what isn't.
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Message 1966655 - Posted: 22 Nov 2018, 21:08:50 UTC - in response to Message 1966594.  

iGNORE previous post. GPU not working. Other system not downloading work and no GPU. Switch to Linux and uninstall Seti? I'm tired of public betas and continual fail-fix-fail-fix-fail fix . . . No such thing as quality and reliability in the software industry?


Ouch!

Running Linux has its own special headaches. Including some learning curve.

There is a thead whose sole topic is getting a Windows seti user to becoming a successful Linux seti user of a beta-test NVIDIA specific app (which is usually at least twice as fast as the windows equivalent) also with really robust cpu apps. It is located at:
https://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=81271

Once you have the version of Linux you are partial to installed go to this page https://arkayn.us/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=b04f704b5027622f371c992e1dc51bcd;topic=197.msg4515#msg4515

Download the "Tbar all in one" and follow the directions. If you don't execute the 3 odd command lines it mentions you won't get a working Boinc Manager. It will just lay there.

You will also need to install a Nvidia driver at 396 or 410 before you try to run the Boinc. I have used the "update drivers" on the menu to do this. If it doesn't offer at least the 396 you will need to do these command lines and rerun the driver update.
sudo add-apt-repository ppa:graphics-drivers/ppa
sudo apt-get update


Don't forget to re-boot the system after the video driver install(s).

I like to install it on my Desktop. Others like to install it in their home directory or other places I don't really understand.

If I am understanding it right, most of us are running various flavors of Ubuntu LTS. I personally like Lubuntu LTS but many have had success with the main release of Ubuntu LTS. I don't remember exactly what LTS stands for, but it is a long term supported release that won't change until the next LTS version is released. The release cycle is something like 3(?) years.

Some people have successfully installed Linux on the same HD with Windows and can dual boot. Others have not been successful with dual booting. I have had mixed success and most of my Linux systems don't have Windows on them anymore.

If possible, install Linux on a completely different HD from your Windows. Do the install from a "cold boot" so the Linux installer doesn't know there is a Windows HD laying around. Leave the Windows HD completely unplugged, no data/power lines at all. Then you can manually dual boot back into Windows without worrying about GRUB or other dual boot issues. If you don't take care, you will lose all the data on your Windows HD.

HTH,
Tom
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Message 1966662 - Posted: 22 Nov 2018, 22:09:38 UTC

Contrary to what Tom has said installing Linux and getting SETI and BOINC running is a simple process.
First, select your distribution - don't go for one of the "rare and exotic" ones, but one of the common - just now that would appear to be either Ubuntu or Mint.
Second, both of these will install (and run!!) from a bootable USB stick - there are any number of utilities around that will produce one for you, and load your selected distribution onto it.
Now, the hard part - do you want to blow Windows out of the water, or (like me) do you need to have it?
If you need to have it I would first try running from the USB stick as this won't harm anything that's on the computer already. Simply insert the stick, reboot the computer and select the "try from USB stick" option, after a couple of minutes (if that) Linux will be running its GUI and you can get BOINC from the "repository" - that's what Linux calls its store for software - click on the "menu" button, then "all applications", and scroll down the list for "software manager", click on that and up will pop a list of software available, use the search function to find BOINC and then follow the instructions to install it (this will tell you all sorts of things that you can ignore for now), make sure you also install the BOINC Manager - it makes life easier. Doing this will install BOINC onto the USB stick, along with the stuff that BOINC needs so that it can run (trying it any other way and you have the pain of loading all that lot yourself which is most certainly where most people go wrong - they try to be too clever). Once BOINC is running you can connect the computer in the same way as you do under Windows (the only catch is that sometimes you have to manually start the manager so put a shortcut on the desktop, which is the same process as you do in Windows...)
If you decide you are going to totally divorce yourself from the joys of Windows, you can use the same sort of process, only select the "install to this computer" option, follow the prompts (user name, computer name, country, root password are the important ones) and in a few minutes and a restart you will have divorced Windows, everything gone, lost for ever (risky/scary I know, I've done it on three out of four computers beside me just now.....)
Doing a dual boot is a bit different, there are two ways, one is to have a second hard disk, or re-partition the one you've got. Knowing what I know now I would go for the second hard disk as it is far less scary, and Windows appears to behave better. With the second hard disk you have the sure knowledge that anything that goes wrong with one of the operating systems will not screw the other one for you.
If you decide to share the disk, think carefully, think again, have a meal, think again, plan how you are going to split the disk. DO NOT consider sharing a disk if it is more than 50% full. use the Linux utility to do the actual splitting and installation of the "boot manager" as it appears to do a better job than the Windows one - DO NOT consider sharing a disk if it is more than 50% full (did I say that already?).

The above will get you running Linux with the "stock" applications on the CPU - if you are going to use a GPU you may have some "fun" with the drivers, but many of these issues can be overcome using the Linux driver manager to swap from one "type" of driver to another. I think this sor of issue is more prevalent with recent nVidia GPUs as I haven't seen many comments about AMD GPU driver problems.

One BIG thing to get over is that Linux, by its nature, tends not to need continuous driver updates - The last time I updated the drivers on any of my Linux machines was when I replaced a pair of GTX780s with a pair of GTX1080s! (It is worth considering that Linux is not really used by gamers, and many of the more recent Windows nVidia driver updates haven't been to do with "computing", but to "improve the environment for gamers".

As you notice, I have not talked about the optimised applications - my advise would be, get the computer running and get used to how it is performing before moving into that world - for nVidia GPUs in particular there is a far wider choice than there is for nVidia under Windows.
Bob Smith
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Message 1966689 - Posted: 23 Nov 2018, 1:09:49 UTC - in response to Message 1966662.  
Last modified: 23 Nov 2018, 1:10:43 UTC

Contrary to what Tom has said installing Linux and getting SETI and BOINC running is a simple process.


Bob,
I never claimed that setting up BOINC and SETI couldn't be a simple process. I only claimed it would have a "learning curve." Anyone with no experience in choosing and installing Linux will undergo a learning curve.

Since I only have experience with setting up Linux to run with the CUDA91 applications that is all I offered. Since I have no experience running Linux/Seti from a flash drive I offered no advice on that. I could have speculated but why bother when you are here :)

I am pleased you were able to explain the Linux install decision points more completely than I.

I hope the our frustrated Setizen benefits from both our points of view.

Tom
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Message 1967081 - Posted: 25 Nov 2018, 21:04:30 UTC - in response to Message 1966655.  

Tom, thanks for all the insights and links. I am using Ubuntu 18.04.1. It's a bit different than what I was using some time ago, but once the changes are discovered, it runs well and is better. I used Update Drivers to install the NVIDIA tested drivers and it was easy and required no terminal commands. After a couple of days, I am happy to say that the system runs perfectly, Boinc runs well, and the GUI is happily computing , so I see 16 items running without having to reset, re-boot or fix anything else. Windows 10 seems to be going thru some difficult times. I will explore the links you provided and see what else is new. I'm specifically looking for a website editor that has some additional features to find broken links, etc., but absolutely no proprietary wizards, just HTML, CSS3, and compatible with PHP. There are other well known and highly recommended Linux apps that replace what I depend on in Windows.
Thanks,
Steve
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Message 1967091 - Posted: 25 Nov 2018, 21:33:42 UTC - in response to Message 1966662.  

Bob, I had already decide to simply install another SSD and just swap connectors with the Windows SSD. I also have a Windows HDD in the system, but I disconnected the power and data leads to keep Ubuntu and Windows totally isolated. If I need a data drive for Ubuntu, I'll install another HDD in the future. I like simple and totally reliable solutions. Some day Windows may prove to be reliable and suitable again, but this way I have the option to consider any new alternatives in the future, including a new CPU, RAM, motherboard in an existing case with the Linux SSD.

Thanks for confirming that I was headed in the right direction with most of my effort. As I said in the previous reply, Ubuntu, Boinc, and NVIDIA are working 100% and I don't have to worry about next weeks Updates breaking apps, or crashing, or the side effects of operating system problems. So, now I will get on with learning more about Ubuntu that will still work tomorrow and the next day after that.

One thing I am interested in is how a Samsung 4K monitor will work with Ubuntu, so I may search for that and give it a try to see if it handles things better than Windows with older Microsoft apps.

Thanks again,
Steve
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Message 1967118 - Posted: 25 Nov 2018, 22:11:25 UTC

Monitor shouldn't be a problem - I switched from a diddy 640x480 to a much bigger screen and it worked almost straight off - the only thing I had to do was set the pixel count to something I could read, but even that was simple.
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Message 1967179 - Posted: 26 Nov 2018, 1:46:47 UTC - in response to Message 1967081.  
Last modified: 26 Nov 2018, 1:47:49 UTC

Make that 9 items Running (8 threads and 1 GPU, caught it too late to correct with an edit).
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Message 1967256 - Posted: 26 Nov 2018, 16:35:48 UTC - in response to Message 1967118.  
Last modified: 26 Nov 2018, 16:38:43 UTC

Ubuntu, Boinc, GPU still working as it should! A very welcome change. Just for the record, the older Windows system has now run Boinc and GPU for two days in a row. Hasn't done that for quite some time. I do like Thunderbird and Firefox in Ubuntu, especially the way History works in Firefox.

Maybe when Intel 9th generation CPUs are out I'll build another system for Ubuntu since it should be much easier than a new motherboard for Windows 10. I say that because I bought Windows 8 Pro back when it was cheap, but I disliked it so much 8 sat on the shelf till 10 was out and then I converted the 8's to 10's, so that and the Intel CPU problem killed my desire to build new systems for quite a long time.

Now I hear that there are still more 7's running than 10's. Guess I'm not the only one not happy with how things have gone with Windows even though I started beta testing O/S' with Win 95. So far I've had far less problems with preview builds than public builds, which just isn't right. On the other hand Ubuntu keeps getting better.
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