Food for thought and life

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Profile Gordon Lowe
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Message 1956502 - Posted: 20 Sep 2018, 16:18:13 UTC - in response to Message 1956497.  

The owner of Charlotte's Legendary Lobster Pound, Charlotte Gill, says eating the sedated lobster will not make customers high and using marijuana leads to better quality meat, as the animal is more relaxed when it dies.

Intriguing idea. As a UPS air hub, the airport here in Louisville, Kentucky has a huge live lobster warehouse that takes them in after a truck trip from where they're caught up in Maine. It's like a two-week holding tank for the little fellas to relax them before they get air-shipped to other places.
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Message 1956508 - Posted: 20 Sep 2018, 16:59:59 UTC - in response to Message 1956502.  
Last modified: 20 Sep 2018, 17:05:19 UTC

True that lobsters and other crustaceans feel pain.
I have boiled many crawfishes and they react very violently even before when put in boiling woter.
I usually take one by one and put them in water with the head first to make the procedure quick.
But is THC a pain relief to them?
https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/19/17878964/lobster-cannabis-high-pain-thc-animal-rights
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Message 1956557 - Posted: 20 Sep 2018, 22:54:37 UTC - in response to Message 1956508.  

True that lobsters and other crustaceans feel pain.
I have boiled many crawfishes and they react very violently even before when put in boiling woter.
I usually take one by one and put them in water with the head first to make the procedure quick.
But is THC a pain relief to them?
https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/19/17878964/lobster-cannabis-high-pain-thc-animal-rights

IMHO - Boiling to death any alive creature is...

Whenever we go to a restaurant and see live lobsters in a holding tank. We feel very sorry for the kind of death they will experience.

BTW: Neither of us eat lobsters.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
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Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
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Message 1956562 - Posted: 20 Sep 2018, 23:23:19 UTC - in response to Message 1956508.  

Thanks for the link to that article, Moomin. I feel like I ought to be a vegetarian, after reading that.
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Message 1956583 - Posted: 21 Sep 2018, 1:18:33 UTC - in response to Message 1956508.  
Last modified: 21 Sep 2018, 1:22:44 UTC

I usually take one by one and put them in water with the head first to make the procedure quick.


That won't work with lobsters as they have a more decentralized nervous system than vertebrates. If you want to humanely cook a lobster, put in in the freezer for 20 minutes, then stab it just behind the eyes with a large chef's knife with the blade pointing backwards and then rotate the knife flat pushing downwards to cut the lobster almost in half. This will destroy the ventral nerve cord so the lobster doesn't feel anything.

Edit: This would also work with crayfish. And I also would never buy or order lobster, because I don't trust that any precautions were taken... the food industry with its narrow margins is notorious for cutting corners when no one is watching.
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Message 1956585 - Posted: 21 Sep 2018, 1:24:01 UTC - in response to Message 1956583.  
Last modified: 21 Sep 2018, 1:25:21 UTC

I usually take one by one and put them in water with the head first to make the procedure quick.


That won't work with lobsters as they have a more decentralized nervous system than vertebrates. If you want to humanely cook a lobster, put in in the freezer for 20 minutes, then stab it just behind the eyes with a large chef's knife with the blade pointing backwards and then rotate the knife flat pushing downwards to cut the lobster almost in half. This will destroy the ventral nerve cord so the lobster doesn't feel anything.

Having been taken to a Great Uncle's Slaughterhouse he owned back when as a young boy. This was before they stunned the live cow into unconsciousness before slitting its throat and gutting it.

I still feel the same about lobsters.
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Message 1956605 - Posted: 21 Sep 2018, 4:40:36 UTC

As top of the food chain on Earth, are we as humans entitled to do as we want? I'm an omnivore, but sometimes I feel bad about it.

There's so many different ways to survive on this planet without eating animals, so why do we continue to do it?

This is one alternative, but it doesn't appeal to me:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/05/12/the-end-of-food

How do you feel about what you eat?
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Message 1956606 - Posted: 21 Sep 2018, 5:04:40 UTC - in response to Message 1956605.  
Last modified: 21 Sep 2018, 5:05:25 UTC

As top of the food chain on Earth, are we as humans entitled to do as we want? I'm an omnivore, but sometimes I feel bad about it.

There's so many different ways to survive on this planet without eating animals, so why do we continue to do it?

This is one alternative, but it doesn't appeal to me:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/05/12/the-end-of-food

How do you feel about what you eat?

My eyeballs are on the front of my head. I have canine teeth. Seems like my DNA is encoded to eat meat. Yes I know I need some vegetables and fruits and maybe even the occasional trip to the salt lick. If you can listen your body will even tell you what it needs if you haven't filled it with poison in the form of over processed junk.

With that Soylent concoction from that article, might as well pump it into the stomach with a nasal gastric tube and be done with ever needing teeth.

When I toss the octopus on the Korean BBQ grill and it starts walking, I don't have any issue unless it doesn't cook evenly.

Oh, and it you really knew, you are full of bacteria eating you right at the moment and they keep going after you die and are quickly joined by maggots. I didn't design nature and I can't redesign it either.
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Message 1956609 - Posted: 21 Sep 2018, 6:11:21 UTC

"Flesh meat cannot be procured without injury to animals, and the slaughter of animals obstructs the path to beatitude; from flesh meat, therefore, let man abstain. "Attentively considering the formation of bodies, and the death or confinement of embodied spirits, let him abstain from eating flesh meat of any kind.

"Not a mortal exists more sinful than he who, without an oblation to the manes or the gods, desires to enlarge his own flesh with the flesh of another creature.

"By subsisting on pure fruit and on roots, and by eating such grains as are eaten by hermits, a man reaps not so high a reward as by carefully abstaining from animal food.

For such offences as cutting down fruit-trees or grasses, or killing insects, or injuring sentient creatures, the penance is to repeat so many texts of the Veda, to eat clarified butter, or to stop the breath.

James Freeman Clarke. Ten Great Religions: An Essay in Comparative Theology

********************************************************************************

APWorld Eats Its Own

Tasty

ORANG ORANGE YAPe



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Message 1956622 - Posted: 21 Sep 2018, 9:53:57 UTC
Last modified: 21 Sep 2018, 9:55:09 UTC

We need to remember that the reason we are the top of the food chain on this small ball of rock, is because our ancestors ate meat and also were intelligent enough to recognise that cooked meat, thanks to controlled fire, could be eaten easier and tasted better. This enabled to growth of our large brains.

Thanks to them we need a fairly high protein diet, decide were to get those proteins. Yes, there are some that do not involve meat directly, most of these are animal based;

Eggs - what do we do with the female chickens at the end of their egg production period. And what about all those males.
Milk and dairy products - same as above, plus where do we get all the leather.
Nuts - This is the one that most vegetarians rave about, they tell me you can grow them in many places, actually you can't, have you looked at all the water needed to grow them. About 400 US gallons (1500 liters) of water per pint of almond milk compared to 90 gallons for cows milk that has 7 times more protein.. 80% of all Almonds worldwide are grown in CA, I'm sure Gary and other Californians might have an opinion on that.

What we need to do is to learn is that we in the western world only need about 5oz of meat/day unless we have a very active job, like an army grunt on active duty.
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Message 1956638 - Posted: 21 Sep 2018, 13:43:32 UTC
Last modified: 21 Sep 2018, 13:57:23 UTC

I certainly don't mind eating adult domesticated animals... they only exist because we raised them for our use, after all. Wild-caught fish, well, I don't think they have much in the way of minds so I don't feel bad for them. But whatever we eat, we need to slaughter it humanely with as little pain as possible. ie I consider dropping a conscious lobster or crab into a pot of boiling water as an act of animal cruelty/abuse.
I won't eat hunted wild mammal animals (ie venison) because the animal had earned a life of its own without our assistance and doesn't owe us anything... yes, of course (other) predators also eat them, but we cheat with our firearms etc., and the predators don't have a choice because they are driven by instinct alone and can't survive otherwise.
I won't eat baby farmed animals ie veal or lamb because I think it's unethical to knowingly slaughter a baby anything, and what veal calves go through in their short and miserable lives would qualify as animal cruelty/abuse if performed on cat or dog.
And I won't eat ducks, frogs or rabbits simply because they are cute and I feel bad for them.

This is of course my own personal ethos which I don't expect others to share...
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Message 1956660 - Posted: 21 Sep 2018, 19:20:08 UTC - in response to Message 1956638.  
Last modified: 21 Sep 2018, 19:22:33 UTC

I certainly don't mind eating adult domesticated animals...
But why not the other animals?
I think /know most domesticated animals raised today for food feels even more pain over a long period than the other.
Even before the slaughtering procedure.
Of course we need to slaughter with as little pain and for a very short time as possible.
That include lobsters as well and when they are put in boiling water they die within a second.
Trying to kill them with a knife is very difficult and take much skills to do according to chefs.
Not like pigs that today often are "stunned" with CO2 before slaughter that create both pain and anxiety for about one minut!
Chickens perhaps take shorter time...

Hmm. I wonder why they dont use nitrogen instead...
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Message 1956977 - Posted: 23 Sep 2018, 19:32:24 UTC - in response to Message 1956622.  

What we need to do is to learn is that we in the western world only need about 5oz of meat/day unless we have a very active job

Good point. My mother was always very careful in how she prepared meals, and followed nutritional guidelines. I'm not sure as many children get that message growing up, anymore, and with the general abundance of cheap food in many places, common sense goes out the window.
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Message 1956993 - Posted: 23 Sep 2018, 21:24:26 UTC

You mentioned consciousness on one of the E.T threads. Now I don't believe in any "paranormal" activities, however...

Real or imagined?

...I heard many of those stories in the 70's, but what grabbed me was what John Graham said (near the end of the video) when he was at Bethnal Green on the Central Line. I heard what he heard on 2 separate occasions in 77. Unlike him, I heard those voices as I was walking up the steps leading out of the station rather than in the station itself. Both occasions were when working a late which stabled a train in the depot & able to get the last train back into the city, arriving at Bethnal Green not long after midnight.

It was suggested that voices from outside the station can be heard in the ticket office which may be true. However, at that time of night Cambridge Heath Road was often quiet & empty. Never gave it much thought until I watched that video.

Weird or what.
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Message 1957025 - Posted: 23 Sep 2018, 23:55:43 UTC - in response to Message 1956993.  

That was a very good program, Sirius. Thank you for posting it.

None of this stuff really resonates with you until you have personal experiences, and clearly some of us, have. In my case, I can't say that I've had a classic encounter, but since my mother's death, I have felt like she is still here with me on some level. ~It piques my interest in quantum theory and parallel universes because I think there is something that happens to consciousness after death. While I was taking care of my mother during her illness, she had trouble focusing on the here and now, and I think she had a few toes in some other astral planes; she just couldn't explain it to me, and she didn't understand why I wasn't experiencing the same things. I think some other-dimensional portals became open for her, and her consciousness seeped into them. Since she's been dead, I have continued to feel her presence - not as a traditional spooky ghost, but in some hard to clarify way. It's not bad at all. I don't have anybody I want to stay connected with after death, so I imagine and hope my consciousness will be free to roam the cosmos.

p.s. I thought it was interesting when they were talking about sound detection in that video, and how it was hard to determine where sound was coming from in the tunnels. ~Seems like it kind of ties in metaphorically with the signals we're trying to detect through SETI.

p.p.s. This isn't the road I expected this thread to go down, but it's definitely food for thought. ;~)
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