SETI@Home may not work properly on newer Android (7 and 8) devices

Questions and Answers : Unix/Linux : SETI@Home may not work properly on newer Android (7 and 8) devices
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Profile Tom M
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Message 1962434 - Posted: 29 Oct 2018, 16:12:38 UTC - in response to Message 1961507.  

I am running 801 tasks on my ARM64 CPU in a Ulefone smart phone. Both SETI@home and Einstein@home tasks run well. Android is 7.1.1.
Tullio


What BOINC app are you using?

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Message 1962436 - Posted: 29 Oct 2018, 16:19:17 UTC - in response to Message 1962434.  

7.4.53
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Message 1962516 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018, 4:43:44 UTC - in response to Message 1962384.  

It still reports your CPU as being:
ARM
ARMv7 Processor rev 4 (v7l) [Impl 0x41 Arch 7 Variant 0x0 Part 0xd03 Rev 4]

Can you post what it says for the Model from your account, you computers, details?

And if you haven't yet, can you post what brand and model Android device this is? I know you said the Snapdragon version, but that doesn't always meam it's true.

For instance, the Archos device I have should have a 32-bit CPU, but in reality it has a 64-bit CPU. I suspect that it lives in the wrong outer casing....

My details are the same as you've given above.
According to a CPU identifier program on my phone, the chipset is an MSM8920. According to Qualcomm's web site that's a Snapdragon 427 4 core A53 @ up to 1.4 GHz (64 bit). The program reports the following -
Chipset: MSM8920
Processor: Rev 4 (v7l)
Design: Cortex A53
Architecture: ARMV7L
CPU Cores: 4x1401 MHz
Freq. range:960-1401 MHz
...
CPU ABI: ARMEABI-V7A
CPU ABI2: ARMEABI
Revision: r0p4
Implementation: 0x41
------------------
According to the similar CPU-Z:
Cores: 4
Architechture: ARMv7 Processor rev 4 (v7l)
Board Name: msm8937
Chipset: MSM8920
Speed: 960 - 1401 MHz
---------------------
And according to AIDA64:
SoC: Qualcomm Snapdragon 427 (MSM8920)
Architecture: 4x ARM Cortex-A53 @ 1401 MHz
Instruction set: 64 bit ARMv8-A (32 bit mode) <---- Ah ha! Here seems to be the key to where all the confusion is. The 427 can run as a 32 bit processor apparently.
Supported ABIs: armeabi-v7a, armeabi
--------------------------------------------------------------------
So it seems that all the confusion (at least on my part) is not knowing that my phone HAS a 64 bit processor (ARMv8 capable), but it is only running as a 32 bit (so only ARM v7) chip.
That still doesn't solve why none of the ARM7 clients seem to like this phone -- perhaps that has more to do with it running on Oreo (Android 8) than anything else.
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Message 1962558 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018, 11:21:12 UTC

there is also a DSP processor inside ^^

https://developer.qualcomm.com/software/hexagon-dsp-sdk/dsp-processor

not used for Seti ...
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Message 1962561 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018, 12:13:22 UTC - in response to Message 1962516.  
Last modified: 30 Oct 2018, 12:14:17 UTC

That still doesn't solve why none of the ARM7 clients seem to like this phone -- perhaps that has more to do with it running on Oreo (Android 8) than anything else.
Pointing back to Mr.Kevvy's fipo:
The technical reason behind this is that the SETI@Home Android client is 32-bit and has never been ported to Android's 64-bit CLANG C++ suite. Some devices have a 32-bit subsystem to run these older 32-bit apps. (much like desktop OSes do so you can still use your older programs in Windows 10 64-bit, for example) but some do not and the client will not launch. Even if the 32-client does work, tasks may complete slowly compared to a native 64-bit client. (Thanks to Dr. Korpela for confirming this.)

I surmise that with 'the client' Mr.Kevvy means the science application(s) here, not the BOINC client (for which it shouldn't matter, although I think it's 32-bit only, so to allow it to run on any Android version).
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Message 1962580 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018, 13:55:18 UTC
Last modified: 30 Oct 2018, 13:56:52 UTC

My ARM64 CPU has also an onboard GPU Mali-G71, which is not used by SETI. Einstein@home BOINC server does not recognize it.
Tullio
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Message 1974083 - Posted: 7 Jan 2019, 21:53:03 UTC

My Galaxy S7 edge seems to be one of the devices having issues. I've read the thread, but honestly I'm having trouble following along so I apologize in advance if this was already answered and I missed it.

I'm wondering if there is a way to request only v801 tasks on affected devices? It seems a waste to spend all the computing power running v800 take that are going to fail.
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Message 1974093 - Posted: 7 Jan 2019, 22:58:04 UTC - in response to Message 1974083.  

No, there is no way to specify that you want to run only v8.01 bar rooting your phone and installing an anonymous platform file specifying the application, then manually uploading that application as well. Too much trouble on a handheld device.
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Message 1974187 - Posted: 8 Jan 2019, 10:49:52 UTC

I am running 801 tasks on my Ulefone with Android 7.1.1 and I did nothing to choose them.
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Message 1974213 - Posted: 9 Jan 2019, 3:16:24 UTC - in response to Message 1974093.  

Thank you for clarifying that up for me.
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Message 1974303 - Posted: 9 Jan 2019, 16:02:00 UTC

I get no more SETI@home tasks on my Android 7.1.1 device. Only Einstein@home tasks.
Tullio
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Message 1974379 - Posted: 9 Jan 2019, 23:20:19 UTC - in response to Message 1974303.  

BOINC still works on a by-debt basis, so if Seti has done a lot of work eventually Einstein will take over until it has run equally or a little more work and then it'll switch back to Seti again. All normal under BOINC 7.
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Message 1979066 - Posted: 7 Feb 2019, 6:39:57 UTC

Hello i was using android 7.0 on samsung p580 tablet with boinc witout problems and updated to oreo 8.1 now seti@home wus always gives computation error.
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Message 1980168 - Posted: 13 Feb 2019, 21:39:20 UTC

I just bought a new Samsung Galaxy Tab A 10.5, which has a 64bit CPU and a 64bit kernel, but the user space is made 32bit by Samsung, so the EABI is recognized as ARMv7a, thus Seti sends the 32bit apps that the CPU cannot process.
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Message 1980210 - Posted: 14 Feb 2019, 1:47:53 UTC - in response to Message 1980168.  

Great to know for the day I decide to upgrade my old tablet. Don't forget to run http://wuprop.boinc-af.org/index.php on it so that your device can finally appear here ^.^ (for the record I know you already are a participant to this project otherwise I'd have remained silent)

I just bought a new Samsung Galaxy Tab A 10.5, which has a 64bit CPU and a 64bit kernel, but the user space is made 32bit by Samsung, so the EABI is recognized as ARMv7a, thus Seti sends the 32bit apps that the CPU cannot process.

Apr 3, 1999 - May 3, 2020
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Message 1980248 - Posted: 14 Feb 2019, 7:35:00 UTC - in response to Message 1980210.  

Nah, since it's going into my car as a navigation tablet, without internet, it's no use having BOINC on it any further. Uninstalled. I was only curious if it could run Seti, alas no.
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Message 1986480 - Posted: 22 Mar 2019, 3:33:53 UTC

Do we have any updates on this? Or work in progress?
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Message 1986901 - Posted: 24 Mar 2019, 14:29:04 UTC
Last modified: 24 Mar 2019, 14:30:01 UTC

All that said I am looking for a recommendation.

I want to buy a 4 core or better tablet/cellphone running Android 7.0 with the goal of running Boinc/Seti as fast as I can. This seems to imply maximum # of cores and maximum CPU speed?

I am looking at this because I don't want to assemble a Pi kit :)

And yes I am "price sensitive" :)

Any opinions, ideas?

Tom
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Message 1986905 - Posted: 24 Mar 2019, 14:55:24 UTC - in response to Message 1986901.  
Last modified: 24 Mar 2019, 15:00:00 UTC

If this is going to be your "active" phone, I actually recommend against running BOINC on it at full-bore without throttling it back, ie setting the max. battery temperature, num. CPU cores, and/or CPU percentage lower. This is based on personal experience with numerous devices.

This is because they were never designed for long-term continuous processing, so this causes two issues: First, they have little to no heat dissipation engineered in. Heat that collects in them tends to migrate to their most massive component: the battery. Second: when plugged in, rather than the charger's DC current going straight to the board and CPU, it only charges the battery, so the battery is constantly both charging and discharging. I noted that the batteries of devices I ran BOINC on always when plugged in at maximum almost immediately started to degrade as they do near end-of-life; battery life appears to be shortened considerably (ie by about half.)

So, instead, I run BOINC/SETI@Home continuously on our "retired" Android smartphones, WiFi only with no SIMs in them. The result of this: in every one of them the battery has swelled and burst the casing open.
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Message 1986912 - Posted: 24 Mar 2019, 15:28:35 UTC - in response to Message 1986905.  

The result of this: in every one of them the battery has swelled and burst the casing open.
Yup, same with my Huawei G700. I gave it to a friend whose telephone was damaged, she put a new battery in it and it still worked though. So what this may need, is what everything that's run 24/7 needs: active cooling, a fan blowing cool air over it and the devices not lying in the sun (as they were here).
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Questions and Answers : Unix/Linux : SETI@Home may not work properly on newer Android (7 and 8) devices


 
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