Russia in the 21st Century #2

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Message 1944623 - Posted: 16 Jul 2018, 0:01:33 UTC - in response to Message 1944621.  
Last modified: 16 Jul 2018, 0:06:25 UTC

A nice government sanctioned protest, yes, that is what Russia, er Putin, wants..
What?
Sanctioned by Putin?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pussy_Riot
The collective's lyrical themes included feminism, LGBT rights, and opposition to Russian President Vladimir Putin, whom the group considered to be a dictator, and his policies.[2] These themes also encompassed Putin's links to the leadership of the Russian Orthodox Church.[5]
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Message 1944706 - Posted: 16 Jul 2018, 10:22:03 UTC - in response to Message 1944688.  

You are almost certainly correct, Vadim in that their protests seem silly or misplaced. But freedom of expression is the protection of expression of deeply unpopular ideas and opinions. There has never been a regime so despotic that praising it, or its leader, or its policies, would be opposed by the state.

So far the only country that has consistently understood this and has supported freedom of speech and expression more than any other is the United States.
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Message 1944707 - Posted: 16 Jul 2018, 10:32:26 UTC
Last modified: 16 Jul 2018, 10:34:02 UTC

Who supports Pussy Riot now?
https://www.svt.se/kultur/kronika-vem-stottar-pussy-riot-nu
Pussy Riot was inspired by author Dimitrij Prigov when they chose to storm the plan dressed up for police, they write. "The policeman as a bearer of nationalism and Russian culture." According to Prigov, there are two versions of him: the heavenly and the earthly. In Pussy Riots sports translation, the heavenly policeman represents everything that is beautiful with a football tournament, and is willing to follow the rules of the game. The earthly version of the policeman is afraid for the carnival that the football tournament brings, and does not care about any game rules. The future of Russia must let the heavenly version defeat the earthly, writes Pussy Riot.
Ironically, the activists chose to act as an earthly police on the football field when they illegally stormed the plan in the beginning of the second half, and those who had previously support them now booed with reference to the heavenly rulebook. Perhaps what is heaven and earth needs to be sorted out a bit. It will be learned when the World Cup has wake up on Monday with a hangover, packed and went home while Pussy riot remains in the detention center.
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Message 1944709 - Posted: 16 Jul 2018, 10:43:53 UTC - in response to Message 1944706.  
Last modified: 16 Jul 2018, 10:51:21 UTC

You are almost certainly correct, Vadim in that their protests seem silly or misplaced. But freedom of expression is the protection of expression of deeply unpopular ideas and opinions. There has never been a regime so despotic that praising it, or its leader, or its policies, would be opposed by the state.
So far the only country that has consistently understood this and has supported freedom of speech and expression more than any other is the United States.
There is a time and a place to make manifestions.
Even in the US!
Pussy Riot chosed the wrong place.
Strange that Sputnik News doesn't mention this incident...
https://sputniknews.com/
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Message 1944711 - Posted: 16 Jul 2018, 11:01:39 UTC - in response to Message 1944710.  

The United States is not perfect, and has made some mistakes in this regard, but it has so far expressed the highest level of support for free speech and expression... occupying others' land may not count as that.

Russia has made simply publishing a magazine by LGBT people for other LGBT people a criminal offense. Canada is far from perfect as well as we have "hate crime" laws which have already been misused to prosecute people simply for publishing unpopular opinions. And don't even get me started with China and its "Great Firewall" where most of the biggest sites outside China are blocked because they may offer up information that the state has deemed illegal (Tiananmen square, anyone?)... internet use there is so monitored simply Googling "democracy" has resulted in a visit from the police.
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Message 1944716 - Posted: 16 Jul 2018, 11:17:42 UTC - in response to Message 1944713.  
Last modified: 16 Jul 2018, 11:18:43 UTC

In Russia, the law only prohibits the holding of LGBT parades and propaganda.
This is due to the government's course towards traditional values. In Russia, most citizens consider this to be right and fully support.


I'm sure that they do, and rather sad that you also seem to agree with this or at least defend it, but legislating morality and calling any speech or writing you find "non-traditional" as "propaganda" and banning it is about as oppressive and contrary to freedom of expression as one can get.
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Message 1944719 - Posted: 16 Jul 2018, 11:28:42 UTC - in response to Message 1944718.  

For them, any government bans are happiness.


Comedy gold... heard plenty of the same from the Jim Crow South.
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Message 1944720 - Posted: 16 Jul 2018, 11:31:45 UTC - in response to Message 1944714.  

The United States is not perfect, and has made some mistakes in this regard, but it has so far expressed the highest level of support for free speech and expression... occupying others' land may not count as that.
Breaking the responsible football match can be considered for free speech and expression?
In football terms and law terms it's called Hooliganism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hooliganism
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Message 1944724 - Posted: 16 Jul 2018, 11:51:01 UTC - in response to Message 1944723.  

HeHe:)
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Message 1944725 - Posted: 16 Jul 2018, 12:03:53 UTC
Last modified: 16 Jul 2018, 12:05:01 UTC

The world's eyes are in Helsinki where US President Donald Trump and Russia's Vladimir Putin meet today for the first time for an official meeting.
At 11 am UTC, a brief press conference was held where Trump began to congratulate Putin for what he described as one of the best-performing world championships in football throughout the ages.
"To agree with Russia is a good thing, not a bad thing," said Trump.
The meeting between the two world leaders is delayed by about one hour, which is likely to cause a shift in the planned schedule. They will jointly meet the press at about 2 pm UTC after holding discussions behind closed doors, but it's uncertain when it will actually take place.
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Message 1944858 - Posted: 17 Jul 2018, 8:05:02 UTC - in response to Message 1944546.  

A very brave group of activists who, again, have very legitimate requests to make.

“Hello everyone from the Luzhniki field, it’s great here,” the heavily political punk performance group said on Twitter , and released a statement calling for the freeing of political prisoners, an end to “illegal arrests” of protesters and to “allow political competition” in Russia.
Way to go Pussy Riot!
https://apnews.com/7f4fde50caf8462d8bfa6038ef56ffa8/Pussy-Riot-upstages-Putin-with-protest-that-halts-World-Cup

Apr 3, 1999 - May 3, 2020
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Message 1944863 - Posted: 17 Jul 2018, 8:45:24 UTC

Russia, just like the U.S., is in bad need of political and cultural reform, and that is a fact.

Getting rid of those arrogant male mighty white and privileged attitudes is also a must, and that is also another fact.
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Message 1944874 - Posted: 17 Jul 2018, 10:03:28 UTC - in response to Message 1944870.  

A very brave group of activists who, again, have very legitimate requests to make.


According to the prosecution, Sentsov and other members of the terrorist community were preparing to commit explosions of self-made devices on the night of May 9, 2014 near the memorial of the "Eternal Flame" and the monument to Lenin in Simferopol, as well as arson of the offices of the public organization "Russian Community of Crimea" United Russia "in Simferopol on April 14 and 18, 2014 to intimidate the population to influence decision-making by the authorities.

Oleg Sentsov was charged with creating a terrorist community (part 1 of Article 205.4 of the Criminal Code), committing two terrorist acts (paragraph "a" of Part 2 of Article 205 of the Criminal Code), preparing for the commission of two terrorist acts (part 1 of Article 30 and paragraph "a" of part 2 of Article 205 of the Criminal Code), as well as in two episodes of illegal circulation of arms and explosives (part 3 of Article 222 of the Criminal Code). The minimum punishment under the article "Creation of a terrorist community" is 15 years of imprisonment, the maximum - for life. During the debate, prosecutor Tkachenko demanded that Sentsov be sentenced to 23 years imprisonment in a strict regime colony, Alexander Kolchenko - by 12 years.


If you support terrorists, then you are also a terrorist and should be in prison. You have no place in society.

I would regard some, that the leaders of some countries say are terrorists, are in reality freedom fighters. Nelson Mandela probably being the most famous of recent times.
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Message 1944877 - Posted: 17 Jul 2018, 10:28:51 UTC - in response to Message 1944870.  
Last modified: 17 Jul 2018, 10:30:05 UTC

According to the prosecution, Sentsov and other members of the terrorist community were preparing to commit explosions of self-made devices on the night of May 9, 2014 near the memorial of the "Eternal Flame" and the monument to Lenin in Simferopol, as well as arson of the offices of the public organization "Russian Community of Crimea" United Russia "in Simferopol on April 14 and 18, 2014 to intimidate the population to influence decision-making by the authorities.

Oleg Sentsov was charged with creating a terrorist community (part 1 of Article 205.4 of the Criminal Code), committing two terrorist acts (paragraph "a" of Part 2 of Article 205 of the Criminal Code), preparing for the commission of two terrorist acts (part 1 of Article 30 and paragraph "a" of part 2 of Article 205 of the Criminal Code), as well as in two episodes of illegal circulation of arms and explosives (part 3 of Article 222 of the Criminal Code). The minimum punishment under the article "Creation of a terrorist community" is 15 years of imprisonment, the maximum - for life. During the debate, prosecutor Tkachenko demanded that Sentsov be sentenced to 23 years imprisonment in a strict regime colony, Alexander Kolchenko - by 12 years.


If you support terrorists, then you are also a terrorist and should be in prison. You have no place in society.
Hmm... Did Oleg Sentsov support terrorists?
http://khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1531408281
Oleg Sentsov was imprisoned, together with three other opponents of Russia’s invasion and annexation of Crimea, in May 2014. All four men were held incommunicado for up to three weeks, first in Simferopol (Crimea), then in Moscow, before the ‘confessions’ of two of the men: Gennady Afanasyev and Oleksiy Chyrniy were shown on Russian TV at the end of May. Both Sentsov and civic activist Oleksandr Kolchenko have consistently denied all the charges, and have also spoken of the torture they were subjected to. Sentsov, in particular, stated from the outset that the FSB had told him that if he didn’t ‘confess’, he would be made the ‘mastermind’ of a terrorist plot and get 20 years.

Russia’s FSB [security service] asserted on 30 May 2014 that the four men were members of a ‘Right Sector ‘terrorist’ plot who had been planning terrorist attacks on vital parts of Crimea’s infrastructure. The FSB claimed, for example, that the men had been planning to blow up railway bridges, although there are none in Crimea.

There was never any proof that a terrorist organization had existed, nor of any plans to commit the grandiose attacks on Crimean infrastructure which the FSB claimed. In fact, the supposed acts of sabotage mentioned initially were quietly forgotten before the trial, and only two Molotov cocktail attacks at night on the empty offices of two pro-Russian organizations were presented as ‘terrorist acts’.

Those two incidents are undisputed, but there is no evidence that Sentsov even knew about either of them, and similar acts of protest in Russia are treated as hooliganism or vandalism, and incur, at most, a suspended sentence.
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Message 1944879 - Posted: 17 Jul 2018, 10:45:28 UTC - in response to Message 1944878.  

Nelson Mandella, Mahatma Gandhi, Lech Walesa, Martin Luther King did not prepare explosions and did not intimidate the population.


Incorrect for Nelson Mandela...

... in 1961 Mandela, Sisulu, and Slovo co-founded Umkhonto we Sizwe ("Spear of the Nation", abbreviated MK). Becoming chairman of the militant group, Mandela gained ideas from literature on guerilla warfare by Marxist militants Mao and Che Guevara as well as from the military theorist Carl von Clausewitz. Although initially declared officially separate from the ANC so as not to taint the latter's reputation, MK was later widely recognised as the party's armed wing...

Operating through a cell structure, MK planned to carry out acts of sabotage that would exert maximum pressure on the government with minimum casualties; they sought to bomb military installations, power plants, telephone lines, and transport links at night, when civilians were not present. Mandela stated that they chose sabotage because it was the least harmful action, did not involve killing, and offered the best hope for racial reconciliation afterwards; he nevertheless acknowledged that should this have failed then guerrilla warfare might have been necessary. Soon after ANC leader Luthuli was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, MK publicly announced its existence with 57 bombings on Dingane's Day (16 December) 1961, followed by further attacks on New Year's Eve.


His life term was for four counts of sabotage from these bombings. He was also initially given a death sentence, but it was commuted by the judge.
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Message 1944882 - Posted: 17 Jul 2018, 10:59:50 UTC - in response to Message 1944880.  

Are you sure that Sentsov is saying this is true?
Maybe you need to first look at the criminal case and then draw conclusions?
Yes, I think Sentsov is telling the truth.
And the FSB criminal case is most likely fabricated.
Where is the evidences of supporting terrorism?
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Message 1944885 - Posted: 17 Jul 2018, 11:42:29 UTC - in response to Message 1944881.  
Last modified: 17 Jul 2018, 11:44:49 UTC

When you have a leadership who rules by fear, and suppresses any opposition, even the press, then isn't sabotage and some forms of violence legitimate tools for the freedom fighter.

edit] and for any Christians, Mathew 10:34
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Message 1944887 - Posted: 17 Jul 2018, 12:00:25 UTC - in response to Message 1944883.  

I will support you in the desire "More information", this desire should be for you, if you are not a fanatic.
If you have any information about evidences that support "terrorism", please let us know.
Maybe the charge should be called "extremism" instead, a very vague term that in Russia could mean that almost any person can be accused for.
For instance there are people imprisoned for religious beliefs, such as Jehovah’s Witnesses!
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Message 1944895 - Posted: 17 Jul 2018, 12:41:26 UTC - in response to Message 1944892.  

They are not imprisoned for religious beliefs, but for participating in an organization, do you understand the difference?
It is a religious organisation - do you understand?
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Message 1944898 - Posted: 17 Jul 2018, 12:45:15 UTC

I sense a post coming upon me ... yes, people I do :) but it'll have to wait because I'm a bit busy right now.
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