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Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $250 donor
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Message 1908199 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 21:54:12 UTC - in response to Message 1908198.  

Angela,
On top of it all, this bill just pulled the eye teeth out of Obama Care.
look at the bright side of that. It may very well save social security and medicare.
How you ask?
The answer is really quite simple. Many of the working people without medical care will die off sooner yet they paid taxes so they will not be around to drain the systems they paid into.


And with the dearth of workers, perhaps this country will chill-out a little on immigration?

No that's how they intend on meeting the Paris accord. Less workers, less CO2.
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Message 1908200 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 22:05:42 UTC
Last modified: 20 Dec 2017, 22:17:37 UTC

•AT&T is paying bonuses of $1,000 to more than 200,000 U.S. employees.

•AT&T's CEO said it was in response to tax reform.

"Congress, working closely with the President, took a monumental step to bring taxes paid by U.S. businesses in line with the rest of the industrialized world," CEO Randall Stephenson said in a statement. "This tax reform will drive economic growth and create good-paying jobs. In fact, we will increase our U.S. investment and pay a special bonus to our U.S. employees."

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/20/tax-reform-reaction-att-is-giving-bonuses-to-200000-employees.html

Understanding the fallacy of Opinion Polls and the ignorance of the Washington Swamp, the Media Elite, et al, of what most voters wish. Just remember that Moore was supposed to win the popular vote and Hillary was supposed to win the Electoral College.

As the Lead Strategist for Democrat Bill Clinton's Presidential Campaign correctly noted: "It's the economy, stupid".

If the economy really improves and there is more money in the pockets of Non Blue State voters. The 2018 and 2020 elections may be very interesting and shocking to many.

If not...
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
--- George Santayana
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Message 1908201 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 22:17:54 UTC

Trump's Christmas present to the United Nations.

US President Donald Trump has threatened to cut off financial aid to countries that back a United Nations resolution opposing the recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42431095
The Palestinians called for the meeting after the US vetoed a Security Council resolution, which affirmed that any decisions on the status of Jerusalem were "null and void and must be rescinded", and urged all states to "refrain from the establishment of diplomatic missions in the holy city".
The other 14 members of the Security Council voted in favour of the draft, but Ms Haley described it as an "insult".
Ms Haley echoed the warning on Twitter, writing: "The US will be taking names."
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Message 1908203 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 22:24:48 UTC - in response to Message 1908201.  
Last modified: 20 Dec 2017, 22:29:30 UTC

Trump's Christmas present to the United Nations.

US President Donald Trump has threatened to cut off financial aid to countries that back a United Nations resolution opposing the recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42431095
The Palestinians called for the meeting after the US vetoed a Security Council resolution, which affirmed that any decisions on the status of Jerusalem were "null and void and must be rescinded", and urged all states to "refrain from the establishment of diplomatic missions in the holy city".
The other 14 members of the Security Council voted in favour of the draft, but Ms Haley described it as an "insult".
Ms Haley echoed the warning on Twitter, writing: "The US will be taking names."

The usually victorious Trump (who would have believed that a few months ago) is not playing by the 'Old Rules'. Since many of the 'Old Rules' have caused our present problems, both Internationally and Nationally. That is not the problem.

It is many of his 'New Rules' which may be.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
--- George Santayana
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Message 1908204 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 22:35:49 UTC - in response to Message 1908194.  
Last modified: 20 Dec 2017, 22:40:54 UTC

'Tinkle down' is what we all got with Obummercare.

Along with a whole lot of taxes. The only losers in this tax plan are the high livers in States whose lifestyles have been subsidized by the rest of American taxpayers. So guess what? Now California, New York and the rest of the 'Tax the hell out of me locally States, because I get to deduct it from my Federal taxes' are going to have to swallow their own medicine and learn to live within their means.

Example: Colorado has a Constitutional requirement to balance the budget every year. No deficits allowed. And we have a requirement to return excess revenue to the taxpayers(although the Dim Libs here have been trying to derail that amendment for several years).

I know better how to spend MY money than ANY public official...................IMHO.

edit:
dearth of workers
ROFLMAO............many times.

And when the seas dry up there will be no more fish.....................

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
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Message 1908205 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 22:37:31 UTC - in response to Message 1908203.  

Trump's "New Rules" are apparently to threaten other countries to get his will.
That behaviour may work in a business corporation.
NOT in the diplomatic world.
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Message 1908207 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 22:44:30 UTC - in response to Message 1908205.  

Trump's "New Rules" are apparently to threaten other countries to get his will.
That behaviour may work in a business corporation.
NOT in the diplomatic world.
Wanna bet???

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
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Message 1908209 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 22:47:43 UTC

If the economy really improves and there is more money in the pockets of Non Blue State voters. The 2018 and 2020 elections may be very interesting and shocking to many.

Clyde, I would be delighted if trickle-down economics slowed or even reversed the gap between the wealthy and the poor, and made this country healthy and prosperous. There really isn't historical precedence for this... but then again there is plenty of historical precedence for people not learning from historical precedence!

People tend to place themselves first, their families second, their "tribes" third and everybody else last. I don't blame people for this. It is a natural tendency, probably hard-wired into our DNA.

Corporations tend to mimic this in that they place their bottom lines first, their board members and leaders second, their shareholders third and everybody else last. I similarly do not blame corporations for this. It is a natural tendency, hard-wired into capitalism which is an economic system that is highly compatible with the way people tend to act. I really don't hate business. Really and truly I do not.

To a liberal like me, the purpose of government is to disrupt this natural order of events, for the betterment of most.

I want government re-distribution of wealth, because most people and most corporations are unlikely to do this unprompted.

I want government to protect and provide for those who are "everybody else", because most people and most corporations are unlikely to do this unprompted.
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Message 1908210 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 22:51:54 UTC

Now California, New York and the rest of the 'Tax the hell out of me locally States, because I get to deduct it from my Federal taxes' are going to have to swallow their own medicine and learn to live within their means.

Oh my friend, please! Let the loop-hole hunt begin!!! People will be people, and when they are, it ain't pretty.
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Message 1908213 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 22:58:58 UTC - in response to Message 1908204.  

. The only losers in this tax plan are the high livers in States whose lifestyles have been subsidized by the rest of American taxpayers. So guess what? Now California, New York and the rest of the 'Tax the hell out of me locally States, because I get to deduct it from my Federal taxes' are going to have to swallow their own medicine and learn to live within their means.

Yep those high livers who want proper public education, paved roads and the like.
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Message 1908216 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 23:07:28 UTC

I want government re-distribution of wealth, because most people and most corporations are unlikely to do this unprompted.
And there is where your argument runs into a great big problem. The only people receiving the 'redistributed wealth' is the Government or their cronies. Does SOLYNDRA ring a bell?

If this system REALLY WORKS why is Cuba, Venezuela, Greece and so many other 'tax til you bleed' socialist economies in need of financial bailout? And who bails them out when there are no more 'fat cats'?

It's because Socialism fails when it runs out of other people's money.

This plan does not add to the deficit, it should put the Government on a much needed fiscal diet, but it won't because that's the way Government Budgets work. Every bureau and department spends the last few weeks of every fiscal period frantically buying anything so there is no surplus of funds left. They feel their budget will be reduced if they don't spend it all.
Which is what SHOULD HAPPEN!

Yep those high livers who want proper public education, paved roads and the like.

And $800,000 a year city managers...............Bell CA.

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
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Message 1908218 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 23:15:27 UTC - in response to Message 1908207.  

Trump's "New Rules" are apparently to threaten other countries to get his will.
That behaviour may work in a business corporation.
NOT in the diplomatic world.
Wanna bet???

I'm not a gambler and probably will lose if I did:)
Anyway, there are 15 country members in the Security Council.
All members but the US supports the proposal to stop the decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
Ok. The US used the veto.
But using threats because other countries voted differently than the US...
Is the US the ruler of the world?
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Message 1908219 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 23:44:00 UTC

It's because Socialism fails when it runs out of other people's money.

While I certainly lean socialist, I recognize that there are flaws in that system as well.

Giving money to rich people (or to rich corporations) does not tend to stimulate the economy. Giving money to poor people generally does.

Say we have two hypothetical people - Rich Angela and Poor Angela. Neither Angela is Mother Theresa. Both Angelas are pretty normal in their behavior, given their life circumstances.

One day Jaundiced Eye walks up to Rich Angela and hands her a stack of Benjamins that goes from the ground up to Rich Angela's eyeballs.

After she says "thank you", (Angelas in every universe value polite behavior!!!) does Rich Angela put the Benjamins right back into circulation? Well.... Rich Angela already owns three mansions, two summer homes, several shopping centers, a golf course or two, a few luxury hotels and a stock portfolio the size of Texas. There really isn't anything more she wants to buy. Does she double the salary of her yachting staff? Probably not, since she doesn't really know their names and only uses that yacht once a year anyway. Does she double the number of maids in her summer homes? Probably not, since she only visits those homes once a year and feels that the maids are paid well enough for the amount of dirt Rich Angela produces. So what does Rich Angela do? She calls her broker and says "I'm up to my eyeballs in Benjamins. Please do something smart with this money" The Benjamins are wisely invested by Rich Angela's broker and go out of circulation. The stocks her broker purchases are going up-up-up because corporations, having just received a giant tax cut, are busy buying back their own stock (AKA taking money out of circulation). Lucky Rich Angela that she is investing her Benjamins in such a lucrative time in American history.

Jaundiced Eye then walks up to Poor Angela and hands her a stack of Benjamins that goes from the ground up to Poor Angela's eyeballs.

After she says "thank you", Poor Angela puts the Benjamins immediately back into circulation. She buys stuff, because she doesn't have enough good stuff. She buys and buys and buys and buys and in doing so she puts all those lovely Benjamins right back into circulation.

Neither Angela is good. Neither Angela is bad. Both Angelas are simply behaving the way most people (and most corporations) in the same circumstances would behave. The rich take money out of circulation. The poor keep money in circulation. Rich people and rich corporations are a bad investment if you are trying to stimulate the economy. Poor people are a good investment if you are trying to stimulate the economy.

While I may lean socialist, I recognize that human nature dovetails very nicely with capitalism. I want capitalist/self-interest based personal and corporate behavior up to a point, and then I want the government to step in and level the playing field. Then I want more capitalist/self-interest based personal and corporate behavior up to a point, followed by more government intervention.

An alternative to the above scenario might be capitalist/self-interest based personal and corporate behavior up to a point, followed by bloody, bloody revolution.

In not wanting this second scenario, I am looking out for myself, my family, my "tribe" and everybody else.

Just doin' what comes naturally...
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Message 1908221 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 23:53:34 UTC

Very well put Angela. ;-)

Cheers.
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Message 1908228 - Posted: 21 Dec 2017, 0:45:59 UTC - in response to Message 1908209.  
Last modified: 21 Dec 2017, 0:54:39 UTC

If the economy really improves and there is more money in the pockets of Non Blue State voters. The 2018 and 2020 elections may be very interesting and shocking to many.

Clyde, I would be delighted if trickle-down economics slowed or even reversed the gap between the wealthy and the poor, and made this country healthy and prosperous. There really isn't historical precedence for this... but then again there is plenty of historical precedence for people not learning from historical precedence!

People tend to place themselves first, their families second, their "tribes" third and everybody else last. I don't blame people for this. It is a natural tendency, probably hard-wired into our DNA.

Corporations tend to mimic this in that they place their bottom lines first, their board members and leaders second, their shareholders third and everybody else last. I similarly do not blame corporations for this. It is a natural tendency, hard-wired into capitalism which is an economic system that is highly compatible with the way people tend to act. I really don't hate business. Really and truly I do not.

To a liberal like me, the purpose of government is to disrupt this natural order of events, for the betterment of most.

I want government re-distribution of wealth, because most people and most corporations are unlikely to do this unprompted.

I want government to protect and provide for those who are "everybody else", because most people and most corporations are unlikely to do this unprompted.

Angela... Sorry, I have never posted a belief in 'Trickle Down'. Just 'Trickle Up'. Meaning... More money in people's pockets results in more spending, which results in... Well you understand.

Those believing in the Redistribution of other peoples they don't like, The Wealthy. Are the same who believe in a Superior Ruling Class of Humans having the Right to Control Individuals and Society. Be it a Religious belief or Ideological belief.

Why after thousands of years of oppression by this Religious Theology and the last one hundred years of this Secular Ideology. Which has resulted in the worst crimes against humanity. We would wish to revisit this belief, is...

To put it more simply. Power corrupts and Absolute Power...

Or, never give Power to your Political and ideological Friends, you wouldn't want your Political and Ideological Enemies to have.

BTW: The New Controllers of the 'Redistribution' usually become the New Wealthy. Whose wealth will be 'protected'.

BTW 2: Yes... I have posted many times that Religious Terror and Secular Ideological Terror. Stems from their shared belief in the need to Control the 'inferiors'. For their own good of course.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
--- George Santayana
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Message 1908231 - Posted: 21 Dec 2017, 1:27:03 UTC
Last modified: 21 Dec 2017, 1:32:31 UTC

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Message 1908232 - Posted: 21 Dec 2017, 1:30:38 UTC

Real Life Lessons from the Chairman of McDuck Enterprises
Scrooge McDuck didn't believe in Reagan’s “trickle down” economics. He believed in something called “trickle back” economics.
“When (Scrooge) pays his nephews their wages of thirty cents an hour he knows they will use the money to buy tall, fizzy sodas at the nearest soda fountain.
Then the soda fountain people will use the money to buy more fizzy ingredients at the chemical factories, and the chemical factory people will buy their ingredients from the coal tar factories - and who owns the coal tar factories? Uncle Scrooge!
By the time those thirty cents have trickled back to Uncle Scrooge they have grown to sixty cents.”
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Message 1908233 - Posted: 21 Dec 2017, 1:33:30 UTC - in response to Message 1908216.  

If this system REALLY WORKS why is Cuba, Venezuela, Greece and so many other 'tax til you bleed' socialist economies in need of financial bailout? And who bails them out when there are no more 'fat cats'?

Sweden seems to work.
This plan does not add to the deficit, it should put the Government on a much needed fiscal diet, but it won't because that's the way Government Budgets work. Every bureau and department spends the last few weeks of every fiscal period frantically buying anything so there is no surplus of funds left. They feel their budget will be reduced if they don't spend it all.
Which is what SHOULD HAPPEN!

You describe a flawed system, the budgetary process our partisan politics has come up with
And $800,000 a year city managers...............Bell CA.

You seem to think all people are corrupt.
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Message 1908236 - Posted: 21 Dec 2017, 1:36:26 UTC - in response to Message 1908231.  

Comments from some the US's biggest at https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/business/corporations-tax-cut-gop-tax-bill/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_tax-corporations-545pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.3d6b44a93b28 most mention larger payouts to shareholders.

As to be expected, er required by the fiduciary duty to the shareholder. Since 95% of that stock is owned by wall street investment banks that gift will be used to bump up stock prices. Perhaps your 401(k) statement might thank you, but by the time you need to draw out money the effect will be long gone.
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Message 1908237 - Posted: 21 Dec 2017, 1:37:52 UTC

Is it my imagination or do most stocks not even pay dividends these days?
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