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Profile Angela Special Project $75 donor
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Message 1908171 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 18:50:32 UTC

...ALL HATERs BELIEVE He is EVIL INCARNATE.

No, I think that you will find that we "haters" tend to be more nuanced than that.

I am not 100% against corporate tax reductions, as the world has been moving in that direction for years and reductions in corporate taxes may make American companies slightly more competitive in the global market. President Obama wanted a reduction in corporate taxes down to 28%, but he didn't get it. As a self-professed "hater", I am appalled that President Trump is getting 21%. It makes me want to vomit.

Of course, it will increase the national debt... something that Republicans and Libertarians are supposed to care about. Republicans claim that they will recoup this loss in revenue through increased worker productivity ultimately resulting in increased tax revenues. Most impartial budget analysts predict 1/3 of the costs of this disgusting holiday gift to corporations will be recouped, and 2/3 will remain as part of the national debt. (Oh goody. I'm suddenly not sad that I never had kids...)

I am pretty darn liberal, but not so blindly liberal that I do not understand the complexities of this issue. I certainly do understand and recognize that business needs a place at the table too.

If we want to make American corporations more competitive in the global market, I think that we are missing something really obvious. Other countries fund healthcare benefits on a national level. Other countries do not make corporations pay for the healthcare benefits of their workers.

If we want to give corporations a great big freakin' Christmas gift, nationalize healthcare and get that expense off the backs of corporations.

But what do I know? I'm just a HATER.
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Message 1908173 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 19:01:12 UTC

I wish the Trump haters would just get over it. It's been a year and we're still here. So far the only impact the new administration has had on my life is that I got a COLA for 2018. During the previous administration I got only one COLA during the entire 8 years. So at least I'm as well off now as before. I think Trump's use of twitter is stupid and counter productive but that is just my opinion. I think he puts his foot in his mouth way too often, but like I said before, I didn't vote for him or Clinton. Congress runs the country because they control the money.
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.
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Profile MOMMY: He is MAKING ME Read His Posts Thoughts and Prayers. GOoD Thoughts and GOoD Prayers. HATERWORLD Vs THOUGHTs and PRAYERs World. It Is a BATTLE ROYALE. Nobody LOVEs Me. Everybody HATEs Me. Why Don't I Go Eat Worms. Tasty Treats are Wormy Meat. Yes
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Message 1908187 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 20:26:16 UTC

HATERs and LIBERALs Get A FREE RIDE on dA TRUMPTrain.

AAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL ABOARD!!!!!!!!!!

WEEE dA WEEEEE Peoples of U S of A WELCOME ALL HATERs on dA TRUMPTrain.

FREE RIDEs to ALL HATERs

Can't Get mO LIBERAL than Dat.

ALL LOVIN' Yap

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!
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Message 1908190 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 21:11:00 UTC

I got a COLA also, that was promptly devoured by an increase in my Medicare supplement. The Government giveth, and the Government taketh away, blessed be the name of the Government.....

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
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Message 1908194 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 21:18:55 UTC

HATERs and LIBERALs Get A FREE RIDE on dA TRUMPTrain.

Stop the train. I want to get off!!!!

I just watched President Trump and his fellow Republicans take their victory lap. Ok. They passed their bill. They are entitled to a victory lap. I hope that all Americans got a good look at those faces up there. Those are the people we need to vote out of office.

Let's look at what Republicans are saying, while taking their victory lap.

Republicans claim that this tax bill will encourage corporations to invest in themselves by hiring more people and paying their workers more money. To illustrate this, President Trump just crowed about the recent ATT bonus. It was just that - a one time bonus, made even sweeter by our President giving ATT some free national advertising. If I were CEO of ATT, I would send President Trump a great big fruit basket and a case of nice wine. Free advertising like that is just lovely for ATT.

Very large corporations give bonuses to workers all the time. Usually they are tied to productivity, but the ATT one does not seem to be. Nevertheless, I would be astonished if corporate bonuses, in general, are not planned well in advance and part of standard operating budgets. Bonuses have psychological benefits on workers. It benefits corporations to give bonuses rather than raise wages or increase benefits.

Want to impress me, ATT ? Give your workers an actual wage hike. I doubt that they will. ATT doesn't need to impress me, any more than it needs to voluntarily pay their workers more than they are currently willing to work for.

Corporations only expand if it is in their own interests. Sure they may spin some of this windfall off to shareholders if the company gives dividends, but not that many companies do that anymore. It is far more likely that large corporations will begin a campaign to buy back their own stock shares on the open market. This has two advantages - reduce shareholder governance of the corporation and allow for price control of the company shares.

Cuts to middle class families sunset in seven years. Corporate tax cuts do not.

At the ripe old age of 54, this may not be a good time for me to age. Speaker Ryan is not stupid. He is worried about the national deficit and what this bill will do to it. This means that he will start going after entitlements - so watch out Social Security and Medicare recipients!

On top of it all, this bill just pulled the eye teeth out of Obama Care.

Oh. And lest we forget, please wave goodbye to redistribution of wealth via the estate tax.

This bill is a fine example of "tinkle-down" economics. Talk about Golden Showers!
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Message 1908195 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 21:35:44 UTC - in response to Message 1908194.  

Angela,
On top of it all, this bill just pulled the eye teeth out of Obama Care.
look at the bright side of that. It may very well save social security and medicare.
How you ask?
The answer is really quite simple. Many of the working people without medical care will die off sooner yet they paid taxes so they will not be around to drain the systems they paid into.
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Message 1908198 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 21:47:31 UTC - in response to Message 1908195.  

Angela,
On top of it all, this bill just pulled the eye teeth out of Obama Care.
look at the bright side of that. It may very well save social security and medicare.
How you ask?
The answer is really quite simple. Many of the working people without medical care will die off sooner yet they paid taxes so they will not be around to drain the systems they paid into.


And with the dearth of workers, perhaps this country will chill-out a little on immigration?
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Message 1908199 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 21:54:12 UTC - in response to Message 1908198.  

Angela,
On top of it all, this bill just pulled the eye teeth out of Obama Care.
look at the bright side of that. It may very well save social security and medicare.
How you ask?
The answer is really quite simple. Many of the working people without medical care will die off sooner yet they paid taxes so they will not be around to drain the systems they paid into.


And with the dearth of workers, perhaps this country will chill-out a little on immigration?

No that's how they intend on meeting the Paris accord. Less workers, less CO2.
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Message 1908201 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 22:17:54 UTC

Trump's Christmas present to the United Nations.

US President Donald Trump has threatened to cut off financial aid to countries that back a United Nations resolution opposing the recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42431095
The Palestinians called for the meeting after the US vetoed a Security Council resolution, which affirmed that any decisions on the status of Jerusalem were "null and void and must be rescinded", and urged all states to "refrain from the establishment of diplomatic missions in the holy city".
The other 14 members of the Security Council voted in favour of the draft, but Ms Haley described it as an "insult".
Ms Haley echoed the warning on Twitter, writing: "The US will be taking names."
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Message 1908204 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 22:35:49 UTC - in response to Message 1908194.  
Last modified: 20 Dec 2017, 22:40:54 UTC

'Tinkle down' is what we all got with Obummercare.

Along with a whole lot of taxes. The only losers in this tax plan are the high livers in States whose lifestyles have been subsidized by the rest of American taxpayers. So guess what? Now California, New York and the rest of the 'Tax the hell out of me locally States, because I get to deduct it from my Federal taxes' are going to have to swallow their own medicine and learn to live within their means.

Example: Colorado has a Constitutional requirement to balance the budget every year. No deficits allowed. And we have a requirement to return excess revenue to the taxpayers(although the Dim Libs here have been trying to derail that amendment for several years).

I know better how to spend MY money than ANY public official...................IMHO.

edit:
dearth of workers
ROFLMAO............many times.

And when the seas dry up there will be no more fish.....................

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
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Message 1908205 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 22:37:31 UTC - in response to Message 1908203.  

Trump's "New Rules" are apparently to threaten other countries to get his will.
That behaviour may work in a business corporation.
NOT in the diplomatic world.
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Message 1908207 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 22:44:30 UTC - in response to Message 1908205.  

Trump's "New Rules" are apparently to threaten other countries to get his will.
That behaviour may work in a business corporation.
NOT in the diplomatic world.
Wanna bet???

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
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Message 1908209 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 22:47:43 UTC

If the economy really improves and there is more money in the pockets of Non Blue State voters. The 2018 and 2020 elections may be very interesting and shocking to many.

Clyde, I would be delighted if trickle-down economics slowed or even reversed the gap between the wealthy and the poor, and made this country healthy and prosperous. There really isn't historical precedence for this... but then again there is plenty of historical precedence for people not learning from historical precedence!

People tend to place themselves first, their families second, their "tribes" third and everybody else last. I don't blame people for this. It is a natural tendency, probably hard-wired into our DNA.

Corporations tend to mimic this in that they place their bottom lines first, their board members and leaders second, their shareholders third and everybody else last. I similarly do not blame corporations for this. It is a natural tendency, hard-wired into capitalism which is an economic system that is highly compatible with the way people tend to act. I really don't hate business. Really and truly I do not.

To a liberal like me, the purpose of government is to disrupt this natural order of events, for the betterment of most.

I want government re-distribution of wealth, because most people and most corporations are unlikely to do this unprompted.

I want government to protect and provide for those who are "everybody else", because most people and most corporations are unlikely to do this unprompted.
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Message 1908210 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 22:51:54 UTC

Now California, New York and the rest of the 'Tax the hell out of me locally States, because I get to deduct it from my Federal taxes' are going to have to swallow their own medicine and learn to live within their means.

Oh my friend, please! Let the loop-hole hunt begin!!! People will be people, and when they are, it ain't pretty.
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Message 1908213 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 22:58:58 UTC - in response to Message 1908204.  

. The only losers in this tax plan are the high livers in States whose lifestyles have been subsidized by the rest of American taxpayers. So guess what? Now California, New York and the rest of the 'Tax the hell out of me locally States, because I get to deduct it from my Federal taxes' are going to have to swallow their own medicine and learn to live within their means.

Yep those high livers who want proper public education, paved roads and the like.
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Message 1908216 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 23:07:28 UTC

I want government re-distribution of wealth, because most people and most corporations are unlikely to do this unprompted.
And there is where your argument runs into a great big problem. The only people receiving the 'redistributed wealth' is the Government or their cronies. Does SOLYNDRA ring a bell?

If this system REALLY WORKS why is Cuba, Venezuela, Greece and so many other 'tax til you bleed' socialist economies in need of financial bailout? And who bails them out when there are no more 'fat cats'?

It's because Socialism fails when it runs out of other people's money.

This plan does not add to the deficit, it should put the Government on a much needed fiscal diet, but it won't because that's the way Government Budgets work. Every bureau and department spends the last few weeks of every fiscal period frantically buying anything so there is no surplus of funds left. They feel their budget will be reduced if they don't spend it all.
Which is what SHOULD HAPPEN!

Yep those high livers who want proper public education, paved roads and the like.

And $800,000 a year city managers...............Bell CA.

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
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Message 1908218 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 23:15:27 UTC - in response to Message 1908207.  

Trump's "New Rules" are apparently to threaten other countries to get his will.
That behaviour may work in a business corporation.
NOT in the diplomatic world.
Wanna bet???

I'm not a gambler and probably will lose if I did:)
Anyway, there are 15 country members in the Security Council.
All members but the US supports the proposal to stop the decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
Ok. The US used the veto.
But using threats because other countries voted differently than the US...
Is the US the ruler of the world?
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Message 1908219 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 23:44:00 UTC

It's because Socialism fails when it runs out of other people's money.

While I certainly lean socialist, I recognize that there are flaws in that system as well.

Giving money to rich people (or to rich corporations) does not tend to stimulate the economy. Giving money to poor people generally does.

Say we have two hypothetical people - Rich Angela and Poor Angela. Neither Angela is Mother Theresa. Both Angelas are pretty normal in their behavior, given their life circumstances.

One day Jaundiced Eye walks up to Rich Angela and hands her a stack of Benjamins that goes from the ground up to Rich Angela's eyeballs.

After she says "thank you", (Angelas in every universe value polite behavior!!!) does Rich Angela put the Benjamins right back into circulation? Well.... Rich Angela already owns three mansions, two summer homes, several shopping centers, a golf course or two, a few luxury hotels and a stock portfolio the size of Texas. There really isn't anything more she wants to buy. Does she double the salary of her yachting staff? Probably not, since she doesn't really know their names and only uses that yacht once a year anyway. Does she double the number of maids in her summer homes? Probably not, since she only visits those homes once a year and feels that the maids are paid well enough for the amount of dirt Rich Angela produces. So what does Rich Angela do? She calls her broker and says "I'm up to my eyeballs in Benjamins. Please do something smart with this money" The Benjamins are wisely invested by Rich Angela's broker and go out of circulation. The stocks her broker purchases are going up-up-up because corporations, having just received a giant tax cut, are busy buying back their own stock (AKA taking money out of circulation). Lucky Rich Angela that she is investing her Benjamins in such a lucrative time in American history.

Jaundiced Eye then walks up to Poor Angela and hands her a stack of Benjamins that goes from the ground up to Poor Angela's eyeballs.

After she says "thank you", Poor Angela puts the Benjamins immediately back into circulation. She buys stuff, because she doesn't have enough good stuff. She buys and buys and buys and buys and in doing so she puts all those lovely Benjamins right back into circulation.

Neither Angela is good. Neither Angela is bad. Both Angelas are simply behaving the way most people (and most corporations) in the same circumstances would behave. The rich take money out of circulation. The poor keep money in circulation. Rich people and rich corporations are a bad investment if you are trying to stimulate the economy. Poor people are a good investment if you are trying to stimulate the economy.

While I may lean socialist, I recognize that human nature dovetails very nicely with capitalism. I want capitalist/self-interest based personal and corporate behavior up to a point, and then I want the government to step in and level the playing field. Then I want more capitalist/self-interest based personal and corporate behavior up to a point, followed by more government intervention.

An alternative to the above scenario might be capitalist/self-interest based personal and corporate behavior up to a point, followed by bloody, bloody revolution.

In not wanting this second scenario, I am looking out for myself, my family, my "tribe" and everybody else.

Just doin' what comes naturally...
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Message 1908221 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 23:53:34 UTC

Very well put Angela. ;-)

Cheers.
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Message 1908231 - Posted: 21 Dec 2017, 1:27:03 UTC
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