Panic Mode On (108) Server Problems?

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Profile Keith Myers Special Project $250 donor
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Message 1904490 - Posted: 2 Dec 2017, 21:05:55 UTC - in response to Message 1904458.  

Sending resent tasks to reliable hosts primarily would really do the trick. Waiting for months for unreliable hosts to timeout, isn't the best way to handle resends.
Pairing reliable hosts for _0 and_1 tasks would also help very much.

That's a question I've always had about SETI. Does the project use or have any reliable host check mechanism in place? I know that both Einstein and Milkyway, the other projects I crunch for use mechanisms to evaluate hosts to make sure they produce accurate and reliable data.

I suspect not though because of the ever growing "Invalid Host Messaging" thread.
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Message 1904508 - Posted: 2 Dec 2017, 22:19:53 UTC - in response to Message 1904361.  

But, as expected, there's trouble in paradise.
SSP stopped updating: [As of 2 Dec 2017, 9:40:04 UTC]

And what usually follows after that.....well, you all know that :-(

Well, I am hoping the success was not that short lived, and the SSP snag is just due to the heavy load things must be under.
Kitties are hopeful.
Meow.

The SSP just updated. Thanks Dog for that :-)

When you next feed your Dog maybe you could give it some extra food as a reward just an idea.
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Message 1904535 - Posted: 3 Dec 2017, 1:55:50 UTC - in response to Message 1904448.  
Last modified: 3 Dec 2017, 1:56:21 UTC

Why should any rig have 100 tasks cached if it would take that rig 6 months to process them?
If the pattern is persistent, it wouldn't be able to. Work is requested by time (use the <sched_op_debug> flag, and really read the Event Log): the maximum time request is 20 days, not 6 months.

***SNIP***
. . BTW, just how do you set flags in the event log??

Stephen

. .


In the manager(assuming you use the "Advanced View") go Options -> Event Log Options. And check sched_op_debug

Or edit your cc_config, add <sched_op_debug>1</sched_op_debug>
Or change the 0 to a 1 if sched_op_debug already exists

I'll provide a sample:
<cc_config>
    <log_flags>
        <sched_op_debug>1</sched_op_debug>
    </log_flags>
    <!--- Insert other configuration stuff here -->
</cc_config>
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Message 1904550 - Posted: 3 Dec 2017, 3:50:18 UTC - in response to Message 1904460.  

I totally agree. But they need to be rational, considered revisitations, taking into account the needs of everyone - the project itself, the users who post here, the users who don't post here, the users with the latest hardware, the users with one clunky hand-me-down, the users who are exclusively dedicated to SETI, the users who spread themselves thinly across multiple projects.....

And everyone in between.

What the project needs most of all is time to think, and data to base their decisions on (which means fixing those broken webpages like client types and science status) which haven't updated since before Matt Lebofsky was diverted away from us.

And that means more people. And more people means more money. Thinking caps on, please.
I think I would slightly modify "everyone" to "almost everyone". As a practical matter, and in a changing environment that is, hopefully, moving forward, some categories of users and/or hardware need to be recognized as no longer viable from time to time. After all, I'm sitting here with a Win98 machine a few inches from my left knee. I still use it occasionally because that was the last OS with a driver that supports my preferred scanner. I seem to recall reading somewhere that there actually is still a way to use that machine for crunching in a very limited way. However, I'm pretty sure that, even if I could, it would require far too much effort on on my part. Why? Because, the project chose to no longer support such "obsolete" hardware in its "stock" environment. There's just no simple "download and go" option there. That means that not every user with a "clunky hand-me-down" should expect that the project will forever support their (relatively) diminishing contribution.

Ah, yes, actual DATA. That's a commodity that's sadly lacking for most of us down here on the mushroom farm. Virtually every post discussing some aspect of how the project should be run, or should be changed, is laden with guesswork, supposition, and assumptions about what the original "intent" of the ancients, I mean, the designers of the system, was. References to actual evidence to support those assumptions are pretty rare. That's certainly been true regarding the debate over task deadlines that has taken place from time to time, and which I've never participated in before. However, seeing a task count in the RTS buffer which seemed like it could only represent timed-out resends presented an opportunity to perhaps inject some real data into the discussion. But I agree that, ideally anyway, more data is needed to make a decision. That data is probably all available, in some form or another, on the servers, in the databases, or in the logs, repositories not readily available to mushrooms. :^)

A thinking cap......hmmmmm. Now, where did I put mine? Is that the one with the little propeller on top?
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Message 1904552 - Posted: 3 Dec 2017, 4:02:11 UTC

Back up and running!
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Message 1904558 - Posted: 3 Dec 2017, 4:30:30 UTC - in response to Message 1904535.  
Last modified: 3 Dec 2017, 4:52:14 UTC


. . BTW, just how do you set flags in the event log??
Stephen
. .


In the manager(assuming you use the "Advanced View") go Options -> Event Log Options. And check sched_op_debug

Or edit your cc_config, add <sched_op_debug>1</sched_op_debug>
Or change the 0 to a 1 if sched_op_debug already exists

I'll provide a sample:
<cc_config>
    <log_flags>
        <sched_op_debug>1</sched_op_debug>
    </log_flags>
    <!--- Insert other configuration stuff here -->
</cc_config>


. . Thanks Kiska, I coudn't find that 1st option on my Linux unit but I will look again. If not then the second method might do the trick.

. . OK, I checked them both and that menu option does not exist in the BOINC Manager menus on either Linux box. It is there in the Windows version however so I will play with that version.

Stephen

..
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Message 1904562 - Posted: 3 Dec 2017, 5:16:32 UTC - in response to Message 1904558.  

What version of BOINC are you using Stephen? The Event Log Options are in every Linux version I've installed so far?
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Message 1904566 - Posted: 3 Dec 2017, 5:57:38 UTC - in response to Message 1904562.  

v7.2.42 does not have the event log GUI interface.
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Message 1904582 - Posted: 3 Dec 2017, 8:19:55 UTC - in response to Message 1904566.  

Ohh, I stayed away from the BOINC repository version. I've tried all the versions at Crunchers though.
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Message 1904593 - Posted: 3 Dec 2017, 10:13:44 UTC - in response to Message 1904558.  

... that menu option ... is there in the Windows version however so I will play with that version ...
It is usually helpful at this point in the conversation to refer people to the official documentation so you have an idea what you might be tinkering with.

Client configuration

Tip: it's best to start by making a single trivial change using the menu: that writes out a complete, correct, alphabetically sorted, copy of the cc_config.xml file with current or default values. That makes it much easier and safer to make manual adjustments to the values later.
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Message 1904597 - Posted: 3 Dec 2017, 11:07:10 UTC - in response to Message 1904562.  

What version of BOINC are you using Stephen? The Event Log Options are in every Linux version I've installed so far?


. . It is 7.2.42 on both Linux boxes.

. . Actually, the menu under "Options" is surprisingly scarce. Three tabs, one for language selection and exit menu config and one each for HTTP and Socks proxies. That is all there is.

Stephen

??
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Message 1904598 - Posted: 3 Dec 2017, 11:08:27 UTC - in response to Message 1904566.  

v7.2.42 does not have the event log GUI interface.


. . Ah, good to know it isn't something I had done wrong. :)

Stephen

:)
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Message 1904616 - Posted: 3 Dec 2017, 15:07:49 UTC

After all, I'm sitting here with a Win98 machine a few inches from my left knee. I still use it occasionally because that was the last OS with a driver that supports my preferred scanner.
I know that story........I had to scrap a HP Legal Flatbed scanner because the drivers were no longer available when I went to Win 8.1.

Yesterday I had to break the same news to a very nice lady for whom I built a new Win 7 system. It nearly broke her heart because she felt the HP did a better job than her 'new' Epson All-n-One. I had to agree.

As a result I now no longer purchase or use HP products. They don't support their own devices with drivers because they want you to buy a new one. And that's the same reason I will go to Linux when Win 8.1 is no longer supported.

And looking at the stock performance of HP in the last 5 years it would appear a lot of consumers feel the same.

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
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Message 1904622 - Posted: 3 Dec 2017, 15:48:51 UTC

I have a Windows 10 HP 500-152ea which connects via Wifi to a HP Envy 500 printer. The same printer is connected via USB cable to a SUN AM20 workstation of 2008 vintage running SuSE Leap 42.2. The printer acts also as scanner for both systems. It is sometimes more difficult to find the correct drivers for the Linux PC after a kernel upgrade. Another HP Linux laptop is connected via USB cable to a Canon MX395 printer. I have always had the greatest respect for HP products, since using them at the University.
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Message 1904771 - Posted: 4 Dec 2017, 14:17:11 UTC

An HP Laserjet is the only HP device I own.

Don't get me wrong, the problem isn't with the Hardware, I've had very few problems with their printers, scanners or workstations(I used to rebuild 6200 and 8600 workstations for resale). The problem is their(and M$s) support for legacy equipment.

Both companies treat their customers as an inconvenient nuisance they have to deal with, rather than the life blood of their existence.

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
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Message 1904804 - Posted: 4 Dec 2017, 16:37:35 UTC
Last modified: 4 Dec 2017, 16:40:35 UTC

I have ordered with Amazon a treadmill to exercise my legs. I received a big package containing the treadmill and a manual. The manual referred to an electric motor which I could not find in the package. Since it was on Sunday i coud not phone the firm to ask why. So I went to the website, found a blog and discovered that the model I had bought had no electric motor, only a rotating wheel. They had sent me the wrong manual. This happened often when, buying a computer or a printer you got also a manual. Now all you get is a leaflet which gives you some instructions in 20 languages. If you need a manual you have to search for it on the Web.
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Message 1904808 - Posted: 4 Dec 2017, 17:14:17 UTC - in response to Message 1904616.  
Last modified: 4 Dec 2017, 17:28:51 UTC

After all, I'm sitting here with a Win98 machine a few inches from my left knee. I still use it occasionally because that was the last OS with a driver that supports my preferred scanner. I know that story........I had to scrap a HP Legal Flatbed scanner because the drivers were no longer available when I went to Win 8.1.

Yesterday I had to break the same news to a very nice lady for whom I built a new Win 7 system. It nearly broke her heart because she felt the HP did a better job than her 'new' Epson All-n-One. I had to agree.

As a result I now no longer purchase or use HP products. They don't support their own devices with drivers because they want you to buy a new one. And that's the same reason I will go to Linux when Win 8.1 is no longer supported.


I had a scanner (CanoScan LIDE 20) which I could not use because no Windows 64-bit driver was ever developed for it. I had to keep it plugged into an old laptop I used for little else. Just for giggles I tried it on 64-bit Linux Mint 17.2 when I first installed it as I had read Mint/Ubuntu supported about 2,400 different scanner models, and, lo and behold, it worked right away without installing anything else. This pretty much sold me on using Linux as my full-time productivity OS, not just for SETI@Home.
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Message 1904812 - Posted: 4 Dec 2017, 17:35:05 UTC - in response to Message 1904808.  

[quote
I had a scanner (CanoScan LIDE 20) which I could not use because no Windows 64-bit driver was ever developed for it. I had to keep it plugged into an old laptop I used for little else. Just for giggles I tried it on 64-bit Linux Mint 17.2 when I first installed it as I had read Mint/Ubuntu supported about 2,400 different scanner models, and, lo and behold, it worked right away without installing anything else. This pretty much sold me on using Linux as my full-time productivity OS, not just for SETI@Home.[/quote]

I also have a very old CanoScan LIDE (N656U) which gave me driver problems when I went from XP to Win7 x64. Found a little program called VueScan, and the scanner works just fine to this day.

...Ghia...
Humans may rule the world...but bacteria run it...
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Message 1904813 - Posted: 4 Dec 2017, 17:36:45 UTC

Another question...wonder if the regular outage is on for tomorrow ?
Humans may rule the world...but bacteria run it...
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Message 1904815 - Posted: 4 Dec 2017, 17:42:41 UTC - in response to Message 1904804.  

I have ordered with Amazon a treadmill to exercise my legs. I received a big package containing the treadmill and a manual. The manual referred to an electric motor which I could not find in the package. Since it was on Sunday i coud not phone the firm to ask why. So I went to the website, found a blog and discovered that the model I had bought had no electric motor, only a rotating wheel. They had sent me the wrong manual. This happened often when, buying a computer or a printer you got also a manual. Now all you get is a leaflet which gives you some instructions in 20 languages. If you need a manual you have to search for it on the Web.
Tullio

Normally by the time a product hits the shelves the drivers and manuals have been updated at least once. Possibly a few times depending on test/dev cycles.
The printer company I previously worked for released their Linux drivers for CUPS and SANE so backward and future compatibility issues were not often an issue.
Some of the printer and multi-function devices had decent enough processors that could have run SETI@home, but I never got around ti giving it a go.
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