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Grant (SSSF)
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Message 1908683 - Posted: 23 Dec 2017, 22:44:14 UTC - in response to Message 1908677.  
Last modified: 23 Dec 2017, 22:44:29 UTC

A couple of questions, when you say only Boinc is being run on the machine, what Boinc projects is it running? Only S@H or others such as E@H also?
As I understand it this is tripple card machine.
I think I would learn to walk before trying to run so to speak.
I would run only one project with only one card for a while, at least a week, in order to get a base line. The simpler things are the easier they are to debug.
The on Seti output from the CPU is going to be pretty trivial compared to the IIRC gtx1080ti you are using.
An easy and useful monitor is GPU-Z.
If the results are reasonable then try 2 cards and see what happens. I would expect almost twice as much thruput with 2.

He needs to fix the hardware issue on the problem system before trying to get anything else to run on it.
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Message 1908685 - Posted: 23 Dec 2017, 22:47:30 UTC - in response to Message 1908673.  
Last modified: 23 Dec 2017, 23:24:10 UTC

Sigh.

I tried installing the Lunatic and now Boinc doesn't want to open. After re-installing it, it's back to it's old slow self.

Only install Lunatics on the system that is presently working- the 1900X. There is no point trying to install it on the faulty 1950X until you fix whatever is wrong with that system.

Use a programme such as Hardware Info to find out the clock speed & the temperature of the 1950X system. That system is completely broken and not working as it should.

Edit- I would also suggest a programme such as Process Explorer to make sure nothing other than BOINC & Seti are running on the system.
And i'd do as betreger suggested & have just the one Video Card in the system till you get it's problems sorted out.



For the 1900X system that is working.
Get the Lunatics Beta 6 programme. Exit BOINC. Run the installer (make sure you use the Win64 one). Make sure you select AVX for the CPU and SoG for the Nvidia GPU.
Once it is installed restart BOINC and use Task Manager to check that the new applications are running (they will be MB8_win_x86_SSE3_OpenCL_NV_SoG_r3557.exe and MB8_win_x64_AVX_VS2010_r3330.exe).

Once they are running, in the
C:\ProgramData\BOINC\projects\setiathome.berkeley.edu
folder will be a file
mb_cmdline_win_x86_SSE3_OpenCL_NV_SoG.txt (it's different from the stock application file name).
put the following command line in it and save it (use Notepad only, not Word or Wordpad).
-hp -period_iterations_num 1 -high_perf -high_prec_timer -sbs 2048 -spike_fft_thresh 4096 -tune 1 64 1 4 -oclfft_tune_gr 256 -oclfft_tune_lr 16 -oclfft_tune_wg 256 -oclfft_tune_ls 512 -oclfft_tune_bn 64 -oclfft_tune_cw 64 -cpu_lock


in the same folder put a text file named
app_config.xml
with the following contents.

<app_config>
 <app>
  <name>setiathome_v8</name>
  <gpu_versions>
  <gpu_usage>1.00</gpu_usage>
  <cpu_usage>1.00</cpu_usage>
  </gpu_versions>
 </app>
 <app>
  <name>astropulse_v7</name>
  <gpu_versions>
  <gpu_usage>0.5</gpu_usage>
  <cpu_usage>1.0</cpu_usage>
  </gpu_versions>
 </app>
</app_config>



In the BOINC Manager, select Options, Read config files for the settings to take effect.

That should more than double the amount of work the 1900X is presently doing.
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Message 1908700 - Posted: 24 Dec 2017, 0:04:01 UTC - in response to Message 1908673.  
Last modified: 24 Dec 2017, 0:04:30 UTC

.... It's easy to see since the 8-core machine finishes a task in 5 to 8 hours while the 16-core machine is up to 12-15 hours.
Five to 15 hours??? My AMD6400 is 8 hours. Both of them should be under 1.5 hours for multibeam tasks. Serious setup issues.
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Message 1908703 - Posted: 24 Dec 2017, 0:23:36 UTC - in response to Message 1908700.  

.... It's easy to see since the 8-core machine finishes a task in 5 to 8 hours while the 16-core machine is up to 12-15 hours.
Five to 15 hours??? My AMD6400 is 8 hours. Both of them should be under 1.5 hours for multibeam tasks. Serious setup issues.

The 1900 CPU run times should certainly be better, but at least it's GPU run times are OK. And at least those CPU run times are still way better than the 1950X CPU & GPU run times.
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Message 1908721 - Posted: 24 Dec 2017, 1:20:20 UTC - in response to Message 1908673.  

Sigh.

I tried installing the Lunatic and now Boinc doesn't want to open. After re-installing it, it's back to it's old slow self.

I hope everyone knows that I am truly thankful for all the time you've spent in replying to my questions on how to run this software. It's been great! I just think that I'm in way over my head on this one.

To reiterate, the only purpose these machines serve is running Boinc. That's it. We've got no other apps running with the exception of the ones you recommended like the SIV64X. My Dad truly believes that one machine (16-core) is not pulling it's weight. It's easy to see since the 8-core machine finishes a task in 5 to 8 hours while the 16-core machine is up to 12-15 hours. Problem is neither of us understands a majority of what's being posted on this thread. Ghosts? Crippling the database? How are we crippling the data base?

If I can't get the answers here or help on this thread, where else should I go? We've got machines built for Boinc! Why is it so hard to run the darn thing?

Is your Dad the one that likes the Macs? If so, tell him to ditch Windows, buy a couple 2009 Mac Pro 4,1 machines, place two 1080Ti a piece in them, and run the CUDA Special App under Sierra. A 1080Ti running the Special App is good for Almost 100k. That means those two Macs with 2 1080Ti a piece would be in the Top 10 SETI machines very quickly. Probably in the Top 5 at near 200k each. That should make him happy.
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Message 1908725 - Posted: 24 Dec 2017, 1:48:11 UTC - in response to Message 1908673.  
Last modified: 24 Dec 2017, 2:09:55 UTC

OK, some confusion in the posts. Right now the 16 core TR is reported at having only the expected number of task on board at 400. Other than running stock applications that the project delivered, it is running somewhat OK. Still some gpu tasks are running overlong, likely because the system is overcommitted on cpu tasks and the task isn't getting the required dedicated cpu core to support each gpu task. The cpu tasks are taking much longer than they should. Again, it looks like an overcommitted cpu with too many running cpu tasks. I would use a <project_max_concurrent>16</project_max_concurrent> statement in app_cofig.xml.
That would give you 13 cpu tasks and 3 gpu tasks running concurrently.
That reserves a couple of cpu cores for general desktop housekeeping and prevents the cpu from being overloaded. Look at the run_time versus cpu_time in the stderr.txt output for a cpu task to try and get equal times. That runs the cpu app most efficiently.

You need to use the
<avg_ncpus>1</avg_ncpus>
<ngpus>1</ngpus>
statements in app_config to dedicate the required cpu core to each gpu task. This is all predicated on using the latest Lunatics Installer to get the Anonymous platform installed with the optimized apps running.

Now for the 8 core TR system. That system needs to just reset the project to start from scratch and get rid of the +11,000 'ghosts' on the system. Each 'ghost' on a host reserves a space in the server database and contributes to a bloated condition. Our past issues with the project have been database related. Let's help the servers out as much as possible and not contribute to the problem.

By resetting the host, you will return the 'ghosts' to the general pool of tasks for delivery to other hosts. Then monitor that host to make sure that it never has more than 400 task in progress. If it starts building more than that, you need to figure out why you are creating 'ghost' tasks. Only after you stop it from creating ghosts would I worry about installing the optimized app from the Lunatics Installer for the Anonymous platform.
[edit]
Just to clear the confusion: This is the 8 core TR 1900X system Host 8389828
and this is the 16 core TR 1950X system Host 8371071
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Message 1908726 - Posted: 24 Dec 2017, 2:08:27 UTC - in response to Message 1908725.  
Last modified: 24 Dec 2017, 2:15:29 UTC

You need to use the
<avg_ncpus>1</avg_ncpus>
<ngpus>1</ngpus>
statements in app_config to dedicate the required cpu core to each gpu task. This is all predicated on using the latest Lunatics Installer to get the Anonymous platform installed with the optimized apps running.

The app_config.xml I posted does that also.


Now for the 8 core TR system. That system needs to just reset the project to start from scratch and get rid of the +11,000 'ghosts' on the system.

I wouldn't even do that at this stage, it's just going to create more ghosts.
They need to sort out just what is wrong with the system. Low clock speed, overheating?
Whatever it is, I suspect that it is what is causing the ghosts, along with the ridiculously long CPU & GPU run times.


Then they can sort out the long CPU run times on the system that is presently running (mostly) OK.

The one question I asked before, and has yet to be answered is how many memory modules are there for the 16GB of RAM?
I suspect it's only 2*8GB modules, not 4*4GB, and that would explain the long run times as they are a quad channel CPU.
I remember someone with a multi socket system running with only memory in a couple of banks & the long runtimes it had. Once there was some RAM in at least 1 slot of each bank, the crunch times improved hugely.
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Message 1908727 - Posted: 24 Dec 2017, 2:11:01 UTC - in response to Message 1907181.  
Last modified: 24 Dec 2017, 2:46:50 UTC


OTOH, the cpu tasks are showing a very overloaded condition with the cpu_time grossly longer than the actual run_time. This could simply be explained if they are trying to run cpu task on every core, physical and virtual. We all know that for every gpu task that you need to dedicate one full cpu core. If they are trying to run 32 cpu tasks concurrently, then the times make sense.


. . Exactly, if they have not reserved enough CPU cores for GPU support that would create a bottleneck on the CPU and poor performance of the GPUs ... To keep it simple try going to 'Computer preferences' then 'Processor settings' and where it says 'use at most xx% of processor cores' make sure it is NOT 100%, I suggest trying 75% to see if that makes a difference.

Stephen

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Message 1908728 - Posted: 24 Dec 2017, 2:22:36 UTC - in response to Message 1908726.  
Last modified: 24 Dec 2017, 2:29:14 UTC

You need to use the
<avg_ncpus>1</avg_ncpus>
<ngpus>1</ngpus>
statements in app_config to dedicate the required cpu core to each gpu task. This is all predicated on using the latest Lunatics Installer to get the Anonymous platform installed with the optimized apps running.

The app_config.xml I posted does that also.


Now for the 8 core TR system. That system needs to just reset the project to start from scratch and get rid of the +11,000 'ghosts' on the system.

I wouldn't even do that at this stage, it's just going to create more ghosts.
They need to sort out just what is wrong with the system. Low clock speed, overheating?
Whatever it is, I suspect that it is what is causing the ghosts, along with the ridiculously long CPU & GPU run times.


Then they can sort out the long CPU run times on the system that is presently running (mostly) OK.

The one question I asked before, and has yet to be answered is how many memory modules are there for the 16GB of RAM?
I suspect it's only 2*8GB modules, not 4*4GB, and that would explain the long run times as they are a quad channel CPU.
I remember someone with a multi socket system running with only memory in a couple of banks & the long runtimes it had. Once there was some RAM in at least 1 slot of each bank, the crunch times improved hugely.

Good point, I hadn't noticed the RAM on the 1950X system. You don't HAVE to run Threadripper in quad channel as long as you configure the memory access correctly in the BIOS. After all, Threadripper is made of two Ryzen 1800X dies, and Ryzen only has a dual channel memory controller in it.

We need to find out exactly how many memory sticks are installed and in which memory slots for each system.
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Message 1908781 - Posted: 24 Dec 2017, 14:50:15 UTC - in response to Message 1908728.  

We need to find out exactly how many memory sticks are installed and in which memory slots for each system.

Two 8gig chips in each machine.
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Message 1908795 - Posted: 24 Dec 2017, 17:12:56 UTC - in response to Message 1908721.  


Is your Dad the one that likes the Macs? If so, tell him to ditch Windows, buy a couple 2009 Mac Pro 4,1 machines, place two 1080Ti a piece in them, and run the CUDA Special App under Sierra. A 1080Ti running the Special App is good for Almost 100k. That means those two Macs with 2 1080Ti a piece would be in the Top 10 SETI machines very quickly. Probably in the Top 5 at near 200k each. That should make him happy.


Wait one second! Are these the 1080 video cards that I got in my two machines right now? I thought Macs needed video cards that were specifically built for the Mac in order to function. Is that what you're getting at?
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Message 1908797 - Posted: 24 Dec 2017, 17:31:42 UTC - in response to Message 1908781.  
Last modified: 24 Dec 2017, 17:34:20 UTC

We need to find out exactly how many memory sticks are installed and in which memory slots for each system.

Two 8gig chips in each machine.

Read your motherboard manuals for recommended memory slot population and FOLLOW the instructions.

Unless you configure your BIOS for NUMA and have a dual ranked memory stick installed for each TR die, you are going to have the issues you have experienced.

Best thing you could do would be to buy two more memory sticks for each machine and add two more sticks to each machine in the manufacturer specified memory slots.

You have not properly built the machines in their current configuration.
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Message 1908802 - Posted: 24 Dec 2017, 18:01:38 UTC - in response to Message 1908795.  


Is your Dad the one that likes the Macs? If so, tell him to ditch Windows, buy a couple 2009 Mac Pro 4,1 machines, place two 1080Ti a piece in them, and run the CUDA Special App under Sierra. A 1080Ti running the Special App is good for Almost 100k. That means those two Macs with 2 1080Ti a piece would be in the Top 10 SETI machines very quickly. Probably in the Top 5 at near 200k each. That should make him happy.


Wait one second! Are these the 1080 video cards that I got in my two machines right now? I thought Macs needed video cards that were specifically built for the Mac in order to function. Is that what you're getting at?

Well, since around 2012, yes 2012, most nVidia cards will work in the Mac Pro by just installing the nVidia Webdriver. According to the posts at MacRumors there shouldn't be any trouble running a 1080Ti in a Mac Pro 4,1. I haven't had any trouble running nVidia GPUs in my Mac Pro 3,1, which is currently ranked #16 running just Two 1060s and a 1050Ti. I wish I could afford to pop in a couple 1080Ti. If you have a standard card it should work, I usually use EVGA , GigaByte, or Powercolor. The only thing you need a card from Apple for is to display the EFI system chooser, which you can easily live without. If you have room, it's best to keep the Apple card installed, or at least available, if you need to boot to the system chooser or update the Webdriver after a Security update. It would be best to stay with Sierra since there are only Security updates now and the CUDA App works well with Sierra. You can look at the thread at MacRumors and check it out, remember, you want at least a Mac Pro 4,1 and Sierra. Do Not try it with High Sierra, Frequently Asked Questions About NVIDIA PC (non-EFI) Graphics Cards
BTW, tell your Dad I'm the one that compiled the GPU Apps his Macs are running....there are better ones available.
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Message 1908823 - Posted: 24 Dec 2017, 20:49:15 UTC - in response to Message 1908781.  
Last modified: 24 Dec 2017, 21:14:41 UTC

We need to find out exactly how many memory sticks are installed and in which memory slots for each system.

Two 8gig chips in each machine.

I would suggest taking the memory from the 1950X, and put it in the 1900X and see if the CPU times improve- Threadripper is a Quad channel CPU and for the best performance it needs memory in all 4 banks, not just 2 like for most dual channel CPUs. I would also check with HWInfo or similar that the memory timings are correct. Ryzen CPUs are are still very particular about the type of memory they use, and the more modules you use the more particular they are.
As Keith said, you also need to check the manual and make sure you are using the right memory slots, and have the BIOS configured correctly for the memory slots you are using.
If this results in a boost in CPU processing, then you have that system setup as good as it can be.



Then you still need to determine what is wrong with the 1950X to make it (and it's video cards) perform so poorly.
As I have asked 3 times previously- what is the CPU clock speed, what is the CPU temperature? And to add to that, what are the memory timings and clock speed (and what are they supposed to be)?


EDIT- I just had a look at a manual for a ROG STRIX X399-E GAMING ThreadRipper motherboard. The memory slots you use if there are less modules than the number of slots are not the ones you would think to use. It used to be you used the slot(s) closest to the CPU. Not on this motherboard.
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Message 1908836 - Posted: 24 Dec 2017, 22:54:39 UTC

I see that both systems are now reporting 32GB or RAM. Lets hope that is with at least 4 sticks of RAM installed in the correct slots for each motherboard.

The CPU completion times are still out to lunch though, even with the low performance of the stock CPU app.

Could we please get some memory clock speeds and also some cpu core clock speeds for each system?
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Message 1909008 - Posted: 26 Dec 2017, 7:24:34 UTC - in response to Message 1908836.  

I see that both systems are now reporting 32GB or RAM. Lets hope that is with at least 4 sticks of RAM installed in the correct slots for each motherboard.

I also see Lunatics has been run, on the wrong system, and the wrong applications have been installed (SSE3 and CUDA32).
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Message 1909010 - Posted: 26 Dec 2017, 7:27:16 UTC - in response to Message 1908673.  

If I can't get the answers here or help on this thread, where else should I go? We've got machines built for Boinc! Why is it so hard to run the darn thing?

If you choose not to follow our suggestions and instructions, and choose not to answer our questions, then how can we help you???
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Message 1909580 - Posted: 30 Dec 2017, 14:00:20 UTC - in response to Message 1909010.  
Last modified: 30 Dec 2017, 14:01:34 UTC

If I can't get the answers here or help on this thread, where else should I go? We've got machines built for Boinc! Why is it so hard to run the darn thing?

If you choose not to follow our suggestions and instructions, and choose not to answer our questions, then how can we help you???

Nononono. That's not it at all. This whole thing just a sad case on my part because the one person who really wants to do this, my Dad, won't lift a finger to learn or do anything about this himself. If he sees anything that doesn't look right, I've got to figure it out, come to you guys and hope I can solve it. He was seriously considering sending these machines out from North Carolina to California and pay someone to get them working.

And so far a lot of these answers have helped me out a lot. Just now we re-arranged the memory and both machines are running at 80%-90% GPU usage! All that from simply arranging the memory properly! And that's because you guys told me to read the manual. It worked! I feel like we're getting close to finally getting these machines optimized.

Everyone here has been a tremendous help and I apologize again for coming off as desperate and ill-informed. I'm going to go through the previous posts and get more answers to questions that have been asked.
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Message 1909589 - Posted: 30 Dec 2017, 15:25:16 UTC - in response to Message 1909580.  

I've noticed your Dad has one of the new iMac Pros. Right now, and as usual, the Stock Mac Apps are quite a bit behind. The Current Stock Mac CPU App doesn't even have AVX, let alone AVX2. You can see this in the results where it lists "sse3_ChirpData_ak8", it should be at least avx_ChirpData_ak8. There are better CPU Apps available with the only caveat being the Optimized CPU Apps are the same as the GPU Apps and don't have the SETI Screensaver, if he ever wanted to run the SETI screensaver for some reason. The Stock AMD GPU App was a rush to replace the Failed SoG App and itself is Old and contains a feature it shouldn't have causing the Errors you see in the results, ERR_TOO_MANY_EXITS. A replacement for the GPU App was offered about a year ago, but ignored until recently. Now it appears the new Mac GPU App is stuck in Beta which has been taken offline for an unknown duration. Fortunately, there are solutions. Prepackaged Apps are available that contain both the AVX CPU Apps and New AMD GPU App. They are the same as using the "Lunatics" Apps in Windows only the selection is more full proof, there are only a couple of choices. For the machines with an AVX2 CPU, such as the iMac Pro, use the package with the AVX2 CPU App. For the older AMD GPU machines use the AVX package. Using those packages will solve the TOO_MANY_EXITS error and result in the CPUs being up to Twice as fast as they are with the current Stock App. Also, there is still one machine running the Flawed version of BOINC 7.8.x. Any AMD Mac running the 7.8.x version of BOINC should update to 7.8.4 as it solves the GPU Memory problem seen here, (Negative 2048MB).
As usual, before replacing Apps it is best to set no new tasks and run down your existing tasks first to prevent creating Ghosts when changing Apps/app_info.xmls.

Meanwhile, my Mac Pro has broken 100,000.
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Message 1909620 - Posted: 30 Dec 2017, 17:39:18 UTC - in response to Message 1909580.  


And so far a lot of these answers have helped me out a lot. Just now we re-arranged the memory and both machines are running at 80%-90% GPU usage! All that from simply arranging the memory properly! And that's because you guys told me to read the manual. It worked! I feel like we're getting close to finally getting these machines optimized.

Everyone here has been a tremendous help and I apologize again for coming off as desperate and ill-informed. I'm going to go through the previous posts and get more answers to questions that have been asked.


I take it then that you actually had the 32GB of memory but had not installed it into the correct slots and you didn't have to buy more memory.

You need to think of Threadripper as a multi-processor design. Treat is just like a dual socket motherboard with two separate cpu's installed. It work exactly the same only it has two cpu's in one package and only one socket.

Each cpu needs its own bank of memory and needs to access it locally for best speed and operation. The type of memory access NUMA or UMA is controlled by settings in the BIOS. READ THE MANUAL.

We still need to know at what speed you are running for both cpu and memory to properly assess what your long completion times are caused by. It would be helpful to know the configuration of the memory installed. What brand and what speed was it advertised as sold? Was it 4 sticks of 8GB for example? Was it DDR4-2400 for example? If you are running stock cpu speed and the rated XMP memory speed we can assign a baseline performance to the system and then try to figure out why your cpu completion times are 300% longer than normal.

You can help yourself out greatly by using the latest Lunatics 0.45 Beta 6 application installer available at the Lunatics, Crunchers Anonymous or Mike's World sites. The file is the same at all locations.

The gpu's need to be run with the Lunatics SoG application for best performance. The cpu needs to be run with the AVX application. You have to make those specific choices in the configuration menus of the installer. You should not just accept the defaults the application chooses on its own. It would be best to run all tasks down and set NNT in the Manager before installing. That shouldn't be really necessary with the Lunatics installer as it smartly handles the conversion of existing tasks to new apps on its own. But either way works.

Again what speed is the memory?
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