North Korea II

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Message 1892158 - Posted: 28 Sep 2017, 13:25:59 UTC - in response to Message 1892143.  

Guessing by many of the responses. JE hit the nail on the head.
Referencing Einstein's definition of insanity. Agreements with the Kim family...

Agreements with the Kim family... LOL:)

North Korea Nuclear Timeline Fast Facts
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/10/29/world/asia/north-korea-nuclear-timeline---fast-facts/index.html

Several countries have unpaid debts to Sweden – but North Korea’s debt to Sweden is almost as big as all the others’ put together.
http://nordic.businessinsider.com/north-korea-now-owes-sweden-sek-27-billion--and-hasnt-paid-for-1000-volvos-2017-8/


The list with failed agreements is of course a lot longer if all other countries included.
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Message 1892168 - Posted: 28 Sep 2017, 14:05:48 UTC

China kicking out NoKo businesses.............?
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/china-orders-north-korean-business-closed-sanctions-50149425

Trump is the ONLY American leader in history to actually pressure the Chinese with positive results. Of course the Never Trumpers will never admit this..........that would be heresy.

Regarding Memes............those that don't understand humor become their own reward. (__0__)

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
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Message 1892191 - Posted: 28 Sep 2017, 15:23:32 UTC - in response to Message 1892168.  

Trump is the ONLY American leader in history to actually pressure the Chinese with positive results.
Richard Milhous Nixon. Remember that name?
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Message 1892193 - Posted: 28 Sep 2017, 15:38:04 UTC
Last modified: 28 Sep 2017, 15:53:28 UTC

After watching the PBS preview "The Vietnam War - Behind the scenes", Ken Burns said something that struck me, "For documentaries such as this, one really needs 25 to 30 years to get a perspective on it." Lyn Novick said "This documentary raises many questions without having to actually ask them".

Ken Burns is right. It was only 24 years after the end of the 2nd World War when the "The World at War" was commissioned & it took 4 years to complete for broadcasting. It became the best documentary ever produced (for its time). I think Ken Burns has come close to equal parity with his series.

As I stated in the NK 1 thread, just blindly accepting "The Lesser of two evils" is too narrow a view. To see how the greatest nation on Earth handled Vietnam behind closed doors is an eyeopener.

In trying to locate anything that discusses that series, I came across an article that makes one wonder on whether Washington will make the same mistakes again.

If it were up to me, I would require every policymaker, from the president on down, to listen to this conversation before assuming office. It demonstrates how critical it is not to make policy along a narrow corridor of possibility. Are we really doomed to invest more troops and treasure in Afghanistan after 16 years of fruitless effort? Are we doomed to follow a path with North Korea where the only apparent options are nuclear war or some sort of diplomatic or geopolitical defeat? If the reasonably foreseeable outcome of a policy is disaster, then pursuing that policy because no one can conceive of an alternative is something close to madness. Yet, as this phone call helps to demonstrate, the president of the United States, trapped by his political fears and a failure of imagination, never developed a way to divert a car he knew was slowly but surely drifting toward a cliff.


The transcript that Trump needs to read

Edited to correct spelling errors.
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Message 1892198 - Posted: 28 Sep 2017, 16:12:24 UTC

The PBS series was very well made and took a mostly neutral viewpoint which i appreciate preferring to come to my own conclusions. I believe that the outcome of most historic struggles can be traced back to a few seminal events.

The series pointed out what I feel was the major cause of the final Communist conquest of Viet Nam, namely the extremely untimely killing of Peter Dewey, an American who probably best understood the situation and was held in respect by Ho and the Viet Minh.

"Dewey had also made personal contact with the Viet Minh. On 7 September, he radioed the first American account of what had transpired in Saigon on Independence Day, matching the events of the August Revolution in Hanoi, leading to the establishment of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam by a triumphant Ho Chi Minh. He also air-pouched a comprehensive report on complex Vietnamese political maneuvers in the south and confirmed French General Cedile's arrival on 22-23 August. Dewey made contact with left-wing French elements then in Saigon leading to his meeting with the Viet Minh supremo of southern Vietnam and future communist historian, Tran Van Giau (along with Dr. Pham Ngoc Thac and Nguyen Van Tao) on 27 August. He kept up a stream of reports relating to the fragile relationship between Giau and the Trotskyists. [12]

U.S.-Vietnamese relations took a major turn for the worse on 24 September, when OSS Captain Joseph Coolidge was wounded in an ambush and two days later when Dewey was killed (26 September) in then mysterious circumstances by a group of Vietnamese. Dewey's successor, Lt. James R. Withrow, arrived soon after, to observe the French re-conquest of South Vietnam." http://apjjf.org/-Geoffrey-Gunn/3137/article.html

Had Dewey lived, could he have convinced the Truman and then Eisenhower administrations to support Ho instead of the Chinese and Russians? A question for the Ages.

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
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Message 1892200 - Posted: 28 Sep 2017, 16:35:11 UTC - in response to Message 1892198.  

Fair question, but I don't think Dewey's death was the cause behind the conquest. This was -
He also air-pouched a comprehensive report on complex Vietnamese political maneuvers in the South.
The south was too corrupt.

IMV, LBJ & Tricky Dicky destroyed faith in the White House. You have only to look at the occupants since then to come to that conclusion.

Seeing what happened behind closed doors & then seeing what the article linked in message 1892018 stated, what I feel is a very large elephant in the room.

By acting alone, as they did in the latest sortie, US military forces can advance the White House's strategic objectives without having to consider the South's interests.


Scary!

Shouldn't it have said "strategic interests of the United States of America"?

It has been often said that non-Americans really shouldn't comment/interfere with America. Yes I agree, we really shouldn't comment/interfere with your domestic policies as they are no concern of ours.

However, your foreign policies are of a concern to the rest of the world.
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Message 1892245 - Posted: 28 Sep 2017, 20:54:43 UTC

However, your foreign policies are of a concern to the rest of the world.

So do you advocate appeasement of Kim?

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Message 1892246 - Posted: 28 Sep 2017, 20:56:34 UTC - in response to Message 1892245.  

However, your foreign policies are of a concern to the rest of the world.

So do you advocate appeasement of Kim?
Where have I given that impression?
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Message 1892248 - Posted: 28 Sep 2017, 21:14:27 UTC

Simply asking a question. Since the vein has been criticism of alleged bad US foreign policy towards all countries, I am just wondering what you would suggest doing differently than making sure the leaders of DPRK understand completely what would be the result of military aggression against the US and it's Allies?

And what different steps would you take to insure a conflict does not happen?

If the US is SO bad, who else you gonna call................Ghost Busters?

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
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Message 1892250 - Posted: 28 Sep 2017, 21:20:12 UTC - in response to Message 1892168.  
Last modified: 28 Sep 2017, 21:25:03 UTC

Regarding Memes............those that don't understand humor become their own reward.


When propagating a lie, pretend it was a joke and accuse everyone of not getting it.
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Message 1892253 - Posted: 28 Sep 2017, 21:31:12 UTC - in response to Message 1892248.  

Fair question. The answer is straight forward, if attacked strike back. However when others see an impression that implies a 1st strike against NK, it makes one wonder about those who want that.

AS for you stating "alleged bad US foreign policy" it's been shown that 4 consecutive administrations, that's FOUR, not the scream one hears often on a golf course, knew their policy was bad yet kept it to themselves & continued to send the country's youth to fight & die. Was that a "good" foreign policy in your eyes?

As for the current regime in the US, don't you have better issues to worry about instead of providing bluster to a madman?
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Message 1892255 - Posted: 28 Sep 2017, 21:39:44 UTC

In 1953 the USA ceded the Korean peninsula to Kim's grand father when it lost and had to turn tail and run away. Korea is for the Koreans just a Germany is for the Germans. It simply has taken them a number of years to become ready to take possession. Why all the resistance to the inevitable? Get it over with.
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Message 1892258 - Posted: 28 Sep 2017, 21:50:59 UTC - in response to Message 1892255.  

Where Germany is concerned, West took over East & integrated. Where Korea is concerned, who takes over what?
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Message 1892263 - Posted: 28 Sep 2017, 22:38:49 UTC - in response to Message 1892258.  

Where Germany is concerned, West took over East & integrated. Where Korea is concerned, who takes over what?

It isn't for the USA, China or Russia to dictate who takes over who. Koreans decide who, we find out after.
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Message 1892265 - Posted: 28 Sep 2017, 22:57:38 UTC - in response to Message 1892263.  

Where Germany is concerned, West took over East & integrated. Where Korea is concerned, who takes over what?

It isn't for the USA, China or Russia to dictate who takes over who. Koreans decide who, we find out after.
In that case, you need to find out just what the White House strategic interests are.
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Message 1892267 - Posted: 28 Sep 2017, 23:24:43 UTC - in response to Message 1892265.  

Where Germany is concerned, West took over East & integrated. Where Korea is concerned, who takes over what?

It isn't for the USA, China or Russia to dictate who takes over who. Koreans decide who, we find out after.
In that case, you need to find out just what the White House strategic interests are.
I guess the whole world wonders what the White House strategic interests are in Korea.
Helping allies?
The tactics so far from the US or should I say Trump is to intimidate Korea to behave.
Will that work?
Of course not!
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Message 1892276 - Posted: 29 Sep 2017, 0:37:03 UTC - in response to Message 1892269.  
Last modified: 29 Sep 2017, 0:56:18 UTC

Where Germany is concerned, West took over East & integrated. Where Korea is concerned, who takes over what?

It isn't for the USA, China or Russia to dictate who takes over who. Koreans decide who, we find out after.
In that case, you need to find out just what the White House strategic interests are.
I guess the whole world wonders what the White House strategic interests are in Korea.
Helping allies?
The tactics so far from the US or should I say Trump is to intimidate Korea to behave.
Will that work?
Of course not!

Will Kim be successful in intimidating the world with his threat to murder millions of innocents.
It appears many of the World's Leaders are.

So far Kim Ping Pong "only" threats the US and Japan and is not a threat to South Korea.
Now to really get some peace between North and South Korea.
Wont be easy...

The "Rocket Man" is a nice song though:)
William Shatner. Take it away!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lul-Y8vSr0I
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Message 1892279 - Posted: 29 Sep 2017, 0:54:08 UTC - in response to Message 1892265.  

you need to find out just what the White House strategic interests are.
tRump tower, Pyongyang, tRump resort, Pyongyang, tRump casino Pyongyang, cash in on tourism from China.
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Message 1892283 - Posted: 29 Sep 2017, 1:26:35 UTC - in response to Message 1892279.  

you need to find out just what the White House strategic interests are.
tRump tower, Pyongyang, tRump resort, Pyongyang, tRump casino Pyongyang, cash in on tourism from China.

You forgot the Pyongyang Golf Course that Kim Jong-Il liked.
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Message 1892289 - Posted: 29 Sep 2017, 1:40:54 UTC - in response to Message 1892279.  

[quote]tRump tower, Pyongyang, tRump resort, Pyongyang, tRump casino Pyongyang, cash in on tourism from China.[/quote
Emoluments, who woulda thunk?
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Message boards : Politics : North Korea II


 
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