I think abstinence, while unrealistic in most cases, is probably the best answer, going forward.

Abstinence just doesn't work. Just look at the rates in Texas where abstinence is vigorously supported by the Governor.

Oh I know it's nice to preach it, but not very effective. I'm just saying if we really wanted to stop the arguing about the topic, abstinence is the best way. There's not going to be a 100% acceptable answer, otherwise.

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The mind is a weird and mysterious place

Abstinence ain't in our genes ;-)

Lol, I think just about everybody here can agree with you on that. :~)

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The mind is a weird and mysterious place

Abstinence ain't in our genes ;-)

Lol, I think just about everybody here can agree with you on that. :~)

So let's legislate against the consequences.

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Abstinence ain't in our genes ;-)

Lol, I think just about everybody here can agree with you on that. :~)

So let's legislate against the consequences.

Absolutely, new law, all males must be locked into chastity devices.

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When mankind has found a way to control the explosion called population growth and when every baby born has access to a good home whether or not the birth mother wants to keep it and most importantly when there are no babies or young children dying from starvation I may then consider the concept of banning some abortions beyond what is now law.

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

Abstinence ain't in our genes ;-)

Lol, I think just about everybody here can agree with you on that. :~)

So let's legislate against the consequences.

Actually letting this be chewed for a while.

Didn't China actually do that? Mandatory abortion and sterilization.

And from a perspective of violating the rights of the woman how is a mandatory abortion any different than a forced pregnancy?

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House passes bill to ban abortions after 20 weeks of pregnancy

The House on Tuesday approved a bill banning most abortions after 20 weeks of pregnancy, advancing a key GOP priority for the third time in the past four years — this time, with a supportive Republican in the White House.

The bill, known as the Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act, is not expected to emerge from the Senate, where most Democrats and a handful of moderate Republicans can block its consideration. But antiabortion activists are calling President Trump’s endorsement of the bill a significant advance for their movement.

The White House said in a statement released Monday that the administration “strongly supports” the legislation “and applauds the House of Representatives for continuing its efforts to secure critical pro-life protections.”

The bill provides for abortions after 20 weeks gestation only when they are necessary to save the life of the mother or in cases of rape or incest. Under the bill, abortions performed during that period could be carried out “only in the manner which, in reasonable medical judgment, provides the best opportunity for the unborn child to survive” and would require a second physician trained in neonatal resuscitation to be present.

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And he is not the only one.
Yes, Rep. Tim Murphy is a hypocrite on abortion. That’s not the worst part.

Re: limits.
Each case is different and any ruling should only be a guideline.
Late-Term Abortion Was the Right Choice for Me

Understanding the moral and ethical dilemma from both sides. When does Protected Human Life begin?

One could also ask does protected life for the mother end at pregnacy?

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Another question, that should cause some deep thinking.
A pregnant woman is attacked, she survives but the fetus doesn't. Is it or not murder?

And another question.
Premature babies and especially those born very early, generally don't do well in school, due to their relative immaturity. Should society start aging of children from date of conception rather than birth date.

If you need it in numbers, consider the case where one child is born after full term just after the academic start date and another child born at 24 weeks just before the academic start date.
If the school start age is determined as all those who were 5 years old in the preceding year, September to August inclusive.
The first child will be nearly 6 years and 9 months since conception, while for the second child it will only be 5 years and 6 months since conception.

What is the legal difference between the baby held by its mother immediately after birth and one day before?

The day before it is still a part of her body, therefore always her choice up until birth.

Back to my question:
What is the legal difference between the baby held by its mother immediately after birth and one day before?

Now you're being pedantic for the sake of it. The day before, she is still a pregnant woman, the day after, a mother.

What is the legal difference between the baby held by its mother immediately after birth and one day before?

The day before it is still a part of her body, therefore always her choice up until birth.

So you believe that a 'day before' is not a human being.

It is a human foetus.

Look at the new born baby in their mother's arms. Understanding that all babies need another to survive. Is that new born baby different the 'day before'?

Yes. it is a foetus the day before.

Better answer the question of what is life:

life: noun
the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death.

capacity for reproduction -- are humans before puberty, life?

Now those strict Constitution persons should ask about 1770's. While the Mom couldn't abort before birth*, the Father could until the 21st year after birth as there were no restrictions on child abuse and children were chattel, like slaves. And remember a Master could kill a slave and it wasn't murder.


*there were a lot of still births then and no one dared question the midwife.

And he is not the only one.
Yes, Rep. Tim Murphy is a hypocrite on abortion. That’s not the worst part.

Rep. Tim Murphy has realised his position is untenable and resigned. Rep. Tim Murphy resigns from Congress after allegedly asking woman to have abortion

Re: limits.
Each case is different and any ruling should only be a guideline.
Late-Term Abortion Was the Right Choice for Me

Beginning of human personhood

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beginning_of_human_personhood

The beginning of human personhood is the moment when a human is first recognized as a person. There are differences of opinion as to the precise time when human personhood begins and the nature of that status. The issue arises in a number of fields including science, religion, philosophy, and law, and is most acute in debates relating to abortion, stem cell research, reproductive rights, and fetal rights.

It is possible that this 'debate' will never conclude.

For once, I do agree with you. There is no man, born, alive or dead who can talk with absolute assurance about abortion for the simple fact, they are not female. YET they are the ones making the laws, Arrogance or Hypocrisy?

I'll let you decide!

It is possible that this 'debate' will never conclude.

For once, I do agree with you. There is no man, born, alive or dead who can talk with absolute assurance about abortion for the simple fact, they are not female. YET they are the ones making the laws, Arrogance or Hypocrisy?

I'll let you decide!

Understanding the impact upon only women.

Neither. Just one's personal morality, ethics, religious beliefs, ideology, etc. are involved.

So you're saying that "your" personal morality, religious beliefs & ideology dismisses a female as a 2nd class person only fit for your sexual requirements?