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Message 1989994 - Posted: 14 Apr 2019, 8:32:20 UTC - in response to Message 1989993.  

The drums beat on...
...shame no one is listening.

They should be mandatory.
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Message 1990033 - Posted: 14 Apr 2019, 16:06:06 UTC - in response to Message 1989994.  

The drums beat on...
...shame no one is listening.

They should be mandatory.

Of course, and that they are not should be life no parole.
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Message 1992112 - Posted: 1 May 2019, 11:41:02 UTC

From what I read with this latest article, yet another builder greedily and recklessly builds dangerously shoddy buildings for others to then suffer:


'New-build homes not fire safe', BBC investigation finds

Houses developed by Persimmon Homes and Bellway Homes have potentially dangerous fire safety issues, BBC Watchdog Live has found. New-builds constructed by the firms were sold with missing or incorrectly installed fire barriers, which are designed to inhibit the spread of fire.

In some cases, it's thought a lack of fire barriers contributed to the spread of fires that have destroyed homes...



Good standards? Yeah? Looks like even bare minimum standards are there to be ignored...

All too greedily dangerous... And silly.

All in our only one world,
Martin
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Message 1993233 - Posted: 9 May 2019, 6:57:14 UTC

Grenfell Tower: Government to pay £200m for safer cladding

Magic money tree! There must be an election coming up.

(We should have one every week)
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Message 1993243 - Posted: 9 May 2019, 10:10:35 UTC - in response to Message 1993233.  
Last modified: 9 May 2019, 10:11:30 UTC

Grenfell Tower: Government to pay £200m for safer cladding
Magic money tree! There must be an election coming up.
(We should have one every week)
Funny you say that as already received my polling card for 23rd. No idea who is standing so do some research. 8 parties & 1 independent standing - total No of candidates nominated 47. Never heard of any of them. Back to the thread.

Up to yesterday, the DVLA has had 2,000 data breaches this year*. Shouldn't this be in the C&T thread I hear you all think. :-) Nope, it does NOT involve computers, online scams or hackers.

Photocopies not acceptable only original documents. Very valuable data which has been received by DVLA (many sent recorded & Royal Mail tracking showed that they were received & signed for, lost or "went missing")

One particular case actually did receive all her documents back except her driving license. She actually heard from the Royal Mail who told her that they were found in the "Lost & Damaged" section in Ireland. I do wish reporters state issues correctly, Royal Mail do not operate in Ireland. However, they do in the North.

Hmm, isn't the DVLA a government organisation?

*For UK posters, last nights Watchdog is available for the next 29 days on IPlayer.
Edited for spelling error.
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Message 1994006 - Posted: 17 May 2019, 14:47:19 UTC

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Message 1994007 - Posted: 17 May 2019, 14:52:51 UTC - in response to Message 1994006.  

"The chairman will be in a position to write to the prime minister with his final report after the parliamentary recess, for publication most likely in October."

I wonder who the Prime Minister will be then? Someone with a specific connection with London, perhaps?
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Message 1995307 - Posted: 26 May 2019, 2:46:02 UTC
Last modified: 26 May 2019, 2:46:18 UTC

BBC - Cladding tests 'almost certain to fail', experts say
Fire safety experts have warned that 1,700 buildings in England are likely to fail a new round of tests into cladding and building materials.

Hospitals, schools, nursing homes and tower blocks are among buildings which could be "at risk", BBC 5 Live Investigates has learned.

The government said it will monitor the test results this summer to decide if any immediate action needs to be taken.

It comes almost two years after 72 people died in the Grenfell Tower fire.
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Message 1995355 - Posted: 26 May 2019, 16:58:06 UTC - in response to Message 1995307.  

BBC - Cladding tests 'almost certain to fail', experts say
The government said it will monitor the test results this summer to decide if any immediate action needs to be taken.
A spokesperson for the government's Ministry of Housing, which ordered the tests, said: "We issued an advice notice on non-ACM cladding systems, reiterating the clearest way to ensure fire safety is to remove unsafe materials."
Says it all.
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Message 1995747 - Posted: 29 May 2019, 9:00:06 UTC
Last modified: 29 May 2019, 9:13:47 UTC

David Lammy MP, who had a friend who died in the fire, said: “These revelations show how Kensington and Chelsea council treated those living in Grenfell Tower with a combination of disdain and indifference in the years running up to the fire, despite repeated safety warnings and complaints from residents.
“If the council had used its £129m in property sales to renovate Grenfell Tower, rather than buying up other properties, 72 lives could have been saved. This forms part of a picture of gross negligence. Those responsible must be held to account.”
Makes one think, especially when one sees today's report on the BBC about councils running out of cash
English councils "warned" about running out of reserve cash

Edit: This post can quite happily sit well on the Profits 1st Safety 2nd thread, but best left here.
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Message 1995958 - Posted: 30 May 2019, 17:00:17 UTC

Still got years to go.

Grenfell Tower fire: Campaigners welcome new inquiry panel
Survivors of the Grenfell Tower fire have welcomed the appointment of two new inquiry panel members as a step towards "truth and justice".
Prof Nabeel Hamdi and architect Thouria Istephan will join Sir Martin Moore-Bick for the inquiry's second phase.
Prime Minister Theresa May appointed the pair after pressure from a campaign group. She said she was "confident" in their "diversity of skills".
Grenfell United said the task ahead of the panel was "immense".
Phase one of the inquiry focused on the events of the night of 14 June 2017 in which 72 people died.
A report into the first stage of hearings was delayed because it was "far more complex and time-consuming" than anticipated.
Phase two, which is expected to start next year, will examine causes of the fire, including the use of cladding blamed for helping it to spread.
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Message 1995959 - Posted: 30 May 2019, 17:15:08 UTC

So in drawing my conclusion Theresa, I find it difficult to comprehend why you would claim you are proud of the progress you have made following the Grenfell fire and add this to your legacy. Perhaps you have some additional evidence to the contrary. But as a final point, please be minded that 72 dead and still no arrests is something no one should be proud of.
TM, your response is pathetic
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Message 1995980 - Posted: 30 May 2019, 18:09:47 UTC - in response to Message 1995959.  

So in drawing my conclusion Theresa, I find it difficult to comprehend why you would claim you are proud of the progress you have made following the Grenfell fire and add this to your legacy. Perhaps you have some additional evidence to the contrary. But as a final point, please be minded that 72 dead and still no arrests is something no one should be proud of.
Unless of course, you are proud that you have kept your fellow politicians and bureaucrats out of jail.
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Message 1997598 - Posted: 9 Jun 2019, 20:40:01 UTC

Another fire that looks like it got out of control too fast. Thankfully no serious injuries or deaths.
Barking fire: Blaze destroys 20 flats in east London
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Message 1997611 - Posted: 9 Jun 2019, 22:27:47 UTC - in response to Message 1997598.  

Resident Mihaela Gheorghe said she had "raised several issues" about the safety of wooden balconies on the blocks of flats.
She added: "I was in my fourth-floor flat when the fire started. We ran out. The fire brigade came but they found it hard to find a water supply at first."
"We said that one day a fire is going to happen.
"We raised several issues to the builder, the maintenance companies and the council about the safety of having all these wooden balconies."
Still nobody listening.
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Message 1997646 - Posted: 10 Jun 2019, 4:48:29 UTC - in response to Message 1997611.  

Still nobody listening.
Money Talks, Safety Walks.

Mandatory retrofit. Going to cost a heck of a lot more than Brexit.
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Message 1997652 - Posted: 10 Jun 2019, 5:57:31 UTC - in response to Message 1997646.  

And it might be costing the US.

Grenfell survivors and relatives open US legal battle
Dozens of Grenfell survivors and relatives are taking legal action in the US against three firms they blame for the fire, the BBC has been told.

The lawsuit will target the cladding maker Arconic, insulation maker Celotex and fridge supplier Whirlpool.
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Message 1997689 - Posted: 10 Jun 2019, 16:35:42 UTC - in response to Message 1997652.  

And it might be costing the US.

Grenfell survivors and relatives open US legal battle
Dozens of Grenfell survivors and relatives are taking legal action in the US against three firms they blame for the fire, the BBC has been told.

The lawsuit will target the cladding maker Arconic, insulation maker Celotex and fridge supplier Whirlpool.

Yep, US Taxpayers will have to foot the bill for the judge and courtroom.

Unless the lawyers have bought a bunch of fridges and found a problem, dueling experts, I doubt that one will fly because it will be easy to say customer abuse. So it will settle for nuisance value. As to the cladding, I expect their data sheet says it burns, caveat emptor. They might do much better on your side of the pond where they might be able to show some duty of fitness for purpose. I'm sure that the paperwork disclaims any warranty of fitness. So it will settle for nuisance value.
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Message 1997700 - Posted: 10 Jun 2019, 19:35:28 UTC

The fridge case will almost certainly fail - there has been a lot of warnings in the UK over people not positioning fridges the right distance from the wall, placing stuff on top of the fridge and so on. It would be rather interesting to read the report into the first fire (the one that they thought had been put out, but had actually flashed out of the building into/onto the cladding. That might give an insight into what else was "stored" around the fridge....
Cellotex (and their US parent) did a very rapid re-write of their sales material very soon after it became apparent that there might be an issue with the foam part of the cladding system - basically they changed the fire category from "it won't burn very easily" to "it will burn quite easily". Also the plastic/aluminium composite cladding manufacturers did something similar, and together they change "consider fire stops" to "apply fire stops", giving maximum distances between the (vertical) fire stops depending on the air-gap between the "non-flammable" thermal insulation and the composite cladding and the height of the building. (Apparently the requirement (as opposed to "simple, non-mandatory" guidance) for the stops was in the very first data sheets, but got "omitted" at some time or other....)
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Message 1997717 - Posted: 10 Jun 2019, 22:55:43 UTC - in response to Message 1997700.  

Sales sheets are one thing, but what does the SDS* flammability section say?

*Safety Data Sheet, OSHA requirement. Not that your side of the pond knows about it, but if the trial is here it will come up.
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