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Lynn Send message Joined: 20 Nov 00 Posts: 14162 Credit: 79,603,650 RAC: 123 |
How very sad. :-( Followed the story last night. First thought terrorism. Just now read it was a faulty refridge. |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
How very sad. :-( It's another type of terrorism Lynn. Greed! The police fear that the death rate is expected to rise when the rescue effort is complicated. 68 people are cared for at six hospitals around London for their injuries, of which 18 are reported to be seriously injured. |
rob smith Send message Joined: 7 Mar 03 Posts: 22526 Credit: 416,307,556 RAC: 380 |
It sounds as if the recent work to the exterior of the building was done "to the regulations". However, in my day job I regularly see people proposing the use of materials that "comply with the building regulations", but fail those required in the railway industry by a very substantial margin where there requirements are for very low surface spread, very low smoke and "zero halogen" in both interior and most exterior applications. Looking at the smoke - well it certainly wasn't "low", it was thick black, and given that the windows were uPVC, certainly contained a fair amount of halogens (until the frames melted away and let the fire into the building. It is about time the building regulations were brought back up to strength, with some of them in a retrospective manner. Bob Smith Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society) Somewhere in the (un)known Universe? |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
Grenfell Tower was renovated as late as last year. A new exterior facade of aluminum was then built on top of the old brick and it is the material choice of this facade - or rather the material used as insulation between the facades, is now speculated that could be the cause of the fire. |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
Documents describing the renovation of Grenfell Tower in western London not far from Notting Hill show that fire barriers are missing. At least twelve people died in the fire, which spread rapidly in the 24-storey building. The municipality that owns the property has declined to comment on barriers installed between the insulation panels that were attached to the outside of the building during the recent renovation. Neither the construction company Rydon Group responsible for the renovation wants to comment on whether the barriers were installed but wrote in a statement that all applicable safety and fire protection requirements have been met. I don't buy Rydon Group's "statements"! Robert Bond CHIEF EXECUTIVE |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 31006 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Are the building codes that out of date? Did planning review screw up? Did an inspector take a bribe? All? No matter, someone is going to stand trial for manslaughter. |
rob smith Send message Joined: 7 Mar 03 Posts: 22526 Credit: 416,307,556 RAC: 380 |
The version current at the start of the works was dated 2010, which had an update issued in March 2016. The majority of the changes were to do with building energy efficiency, and was not retrospective on works in progress. Bob Smith Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society) Somewhere in the (un)known Universe? |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24911 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
Sian Berry is a Green London Assembly member who chairs the London Assembly housing committee. |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24911 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
Sir David Amess is chair of the all-party parliamentary fire safety rescue group. |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24911 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
Russ Timpson is a former firefighter who now runs the risk management company Horizonscan, and is secretary of the Tall Buildings Fire Safety Network. |
Richard Haselgrove Send message Joined: 4 Jul 99 Posts: 14679 Credit: 200,643,578 RAC: 874 |
I think sprinklers are a red-herring here: nobody is ever going to fit sprinklers to the outside of a residential building, which is where this fire spread. Being clearly stated that the building was clad with ACM - Aluminium Composite Material - which sounds OK (depending what it was composited with). And behind the ACM there was unspecified insulation material - that'll be the next thing to identify and test. Big question for me: how did the fire cross from the alleged source - failed fridge/freezer in a fourth floor flat - to the cladding/insulation on the outside of the building? Edit - [BBC} Newsnight policy editor Chris Cook said the cladding used on Grenfell Tower was sold under the brand Reynobond. He said manufacturers offer two different versions of the cladding - one with a plastic core and one with a mineral core. He said he understood cladding with a plastic core was used in the west London tower. |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24911 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
I think sprinklers are a red-herring here: nobody is ever going to fit sprinklers to the outside of a residential building, which is where this fire spread. Had sprinklers been installed, who's to say the fire would have spread externally? |
W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19398 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 |
I think sprinklers are a red-herring here: nobody is ever going to fit sprinklers to the outside of a residential building, which is where this fire spread. But I think sprinklers should be fitted in the stair wells, so that there is an escape route. Possibly need in corridors as well to so that people ca see and breathe. Reuters article says there is no evidence in safety barriers being installed between the cladding panels installed. http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-fire-cladding-idUKKBN19538U Legal experts declined to express an opinion on whether fire barriers are required by law. |
Richard Haselgrove Send message Joined: 4 Jul 99 Posts: 14679 Credit: 200,643,578 RAC: 874 |
That would be 'stairwell', singular. It was described as 'manky', and was not touched during last year's renovation. It's suggested that there was no emergency lighting. |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
Big question for me: how did the fire cross from the alleged source - failed fridge/freezer in a fourth floor flat - to the cladding/insulation on the outside of the building? Failed fridge/freezer? Must be speculation. No one knows what caused the fire according to fire chief Dany Cotton. London Police Commissioner announced that 17 people have died so far, and many are still missing. It will take weeks to search the building. Some structures have to be built so it will be safe to work there. They will start sending in rescue dogs however. It's rather scary it's the building itself that are burning. If it's a wooden building it's understandable but Grenfell Tower is not. |
Bernie Vine Send message Joined: 26 May 99 Posts: 9958 Credit: 103,452,613 RAC: 328 |
Interesting Construction firm Rydon, which carried out the refurbishment, initially said in a statement that the work met "all fire regulations" - the wording was omitted in a later statement. |
Mark Stevenson Send message Joined: 8 Sep 11 Posts: 1736 Credit: 174,899,165 RAC: 91 |
Interesting I've got a feeling the proverbial IS going to hit the fan over this but what's the betting the people / companys responsible will just carry on with what they do Life is what you make of it :-) When i'm good i'm very good , but when i'm bad i'm shi#eloads better ;-) In't I " buttercups " p.m.s.l at authoritie !!;-) |
W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19398 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 |
That would be 'stairwell', singular. It was described as 'manky', and was not touched during last year's renovation. It's suggested that there was no emergency lighting. That the building only had one stairwell surprises me. I've only lived in one tower building, Army married quarters, and that had a central column with 4 lifts and stairs going round them. From the central column you went through a fire door to each wing which had its own emergency fire exit stairwell. So in an emergency we could get to 4 stairwells. We were told that buildings that high, 15 floors IFRC, had to have more than one stairwell to meet fire regs. But maybe that's just the MOD. |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
A long chain of contractual relationships link the local authority owners of Grenfell Tower to the manufacturers of the cladding panel on the outside of the building. Rydon employed a sub-contractor, the family-owned Harley Facades to install the cladding. http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/how-a-specialist-firm-won-the-deal-to-refurbish-grenfell-tower-a3565801.html The panels were supplied by Suffolk based Celotex, part of the French St Gobain group. They are described as textured aluminium foil facings, manufactured from rigid polyisocyanurate using a blowing agent that has low global warming potential (GWP) and zero ozone depletion potential. Swedish saying "Ju fler kockar desto sämre soppa". Many chefs makes a bad soup. |
W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19398 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 |
PM orders tower block fire inquiry Prime Minister Theresa May has ordered a full public inquiry into the massive fire that engulfed a west London block of flats, killing at least 17 people. |
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