Message boards :
Science (nonSETI) :
Has a parallel universe been discovered?
Message board moderation
Previous · 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · Next
Author  Message 

Gone with the wind (2) Send message Joined: 19 Nov 00 Posts: 41571 Credit: 41,951,370 RAC: 20 
Heisenberg's uncertainty principle is to do with quantum mechanics and nothing to do with infinity or parallel universes. The winner of next year's Kentucky Derby is uncertain, but also nothing to do with Heisenberg. In quantum mechanics, the uncertainty principle, also known as Heisenberg's uncertainty principle or Heisenberg's indeterminacy principle, is any of a variety of mathematical inequalities asserting a fundamental limit to the precision with which certain pairs of physical properties of a particle, known as complementary variables, such as position x and momentum p, can be known. 
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 
Heisenberg's uncertainty principle is to do with quantum mechanics and nothing to do with infinity or parallel universes. The winner of next year's Kentucky Derby is uncertain, but also nothing to do with Heisenberg. What? I'm a part of the quantum world. So do you! Stop your nonsense! 
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 
Heisenberg's uncertainty principle is to do with quantum mechanics and nothing to do with infinity or parallel universes. You are dead wrong! Infinity doesn't exist in the real world! That's a fact. Parallel universes perhaps. Not a fact merely a hypothesis. 
Gone with the wind (2) Send message Joined: 19 Nov 00 Posts: 41571 Credit: 41,951,370 RAC: 20 
You are dead wrong!Infinity is not a material substance that can be weighed or measured, it is a concept. And it can be represented by ∞ =1/0. 
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 
You are dead wrong!Infinity is not a material substance that can be weighed or measured, it is a concept. And it can be represented by ∞ =1/0. Yes. Math can do wonders. Even when it comes to the concept of Infinity. I think you have read or seen Mad Max:) Btw ∞ is not a number and can't be used in math. Simple fact. Or how do you prove this? ∞ =1/0 I think it's an axiom just as there are no proofs of parallel lines. 
Gone with the wind (2) Send message Joined: 19 Nov 00 Posts: 41571 Credit: 41,951,370 RAC: 20 

janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 
I think it's an axiom just as there are no proofs of parallel lines. That's the alternate Theory, Chris:) 
Gone with the wind (2) Send message Joined: 19 Nov 00 Posts: 41571 Credit: 41,951,370 RAC: 20 

janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 
Btw ∞ is not a number and can't be used in math. Infinity and maths get along. Infinity and maths in the real world doesn't get along. Read your links for heavens sake. 
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 
Btw ∞ is not a number and can't be used in math. Sigh... Could you please answer us about rational and irrational numbers. Especially the size between them! https://www.khanacademy.org/math/algebra/rationalandirrationalnumbers/alg1irrationalnumbers/v/recognizingirrationalnumbers 
William Rothamel Send message Joined: 25 Oct 06 Posts: 3546 Credit: 1,681,243 RAC: 1,106 
Infinity is used in calculating limits and is the basis for Calculus 
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 
Infinity is used in calculating limits and is the basis for Calculus Yes. I know very well about infinity and Calculus. It was Descartes and later Isaac Newton that created this math toolbox. But in real life and did they explain calculating limits outside the view? I would say no because it's only about dividing things . Not about what objects outside looks like. There are no such tools. Have you been to a infinity as a German mathematician said in video that I linked before? http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x20grta_horizoninfinitybbc_shortfilms 
Gone with the wind (2) Send message Joined: 19 Nov 00 Posts: 41571 Credit: 41,951,370 RAC: 20 
Infinity doesn't exist as a item that you can see or hold in your hand, and as such it has no directly measurable parameters. It is a concept. But we can assign a symbol to it and use it in mathematical equations. When we were naughty as kids mum always said we were driving her to infinity, we always said how far away was it and did dad know the route :)) Calculus was "invented" long before the famous controversy between Newton and Leibniz, according to this book. And later in the 17th century, European mathematicians Isaac Barrow, René Descartes, Pierre de Fermat, Blaise Pascal, John Wallis and others discussed the idea of a derivative. History 
rob smith Send message Joined: 7 Mar 03 Posts: 17340 Credit: 388,982,209 RAC: 120,994 
The roots of calculus go back a long way, a very long way. Possibly about 2000 years BC, so about 4000 years ago. What these Europeans did was to pull it all together, rationalise it into "simple" algorithms and get noticed doing so. It is interesting that many of the techniques employed by "The Ancients", such as error estimation and rounding are still employed today in computational based calculus  where one is trying to get an answer, where transfer functions are used to express "real" differential and integral functions in terms that can be calculated more easily, then you invert the transfer function to get to the final answer. I remember one maths lecturer coming my office, looking at e bit of paper on the wall with a stack of differential equations on it. After studying them for a few seconds he asked "Why have you got Maxwell's equation of state for light on your wall?"  My answer floored him "Oh, is that what they are, last time I saw them like that was in my under graduate days, more recently (PG days) I was using the Hamiltonian transfers, so much easier to do on a pocket calculator...", the look on his face was priceless. Bob Smith Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society) Somewhere in the (un)known Universe? 
Gone with the wind (2) Send message Joined: 19 Nov 00 Posts: 41571 Credit: 41,951,370 RAC: 20 
Most of the Greeks e.g. Zeno, Plato, Pythagoras etc were about 500 BC or thereabouts, but weren't the Chinese and India at it earlier? This infinity business is similar to Achilles and the tortoise, where in theory he can never catch it because he will always be a tiny bit away from it, the series continues ad infinitum. Oh look another way of saying for infinity! 
William Rothamel Send message Joined: 25 Oct 06 Posts: 3546 Credit: 1,681,243 RAC: 1,106 
Yes: the ancients were right on to the subject of infinite series and the essence of Calculus. Archimedes' "Method of Exhaustion" is a prime example. 
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 
Most of the Greeks e.g. Zeno, Plato, Pythagoras etc were about 500 BC or thereabouts, but weren't the Chinese and India at it earlier? I think Sumer that was the first urban civilization in the historical region of southern Mesopotamia, modernday southern Iraq in 4500 – c. 2004 BC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumer They still use base 60 in maths. And even we reading clocks and in navigation. Why 60? Count your knuckles and bones on your fingers:) 
Gone with the wind (2) Send message Joined: 19 Nov 00 Posts: 41571 Credit: 41,951,370 RAC: 20 
Archimedes' "Method of Exhaustion" is a prime example. It is, although not particularly used today, it paved the way for modern calculus by the ancients. The idea originated in the late 5th century BC with Antiphon, although it is not entirely clear how well he understood it. The theory was made rigorous a few decades later by Eudoxus of Cnidus, who used it to calculate areas and volumes. It was later reinvented in China by Liu Hui in the 3rd century AD in order to find the area of a circle. 
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 
I wonder if calculus works in a parallel universe. Most likely but 11 dimensions? Mind gobbling! I have to ask Mad Max and Laura about this... https://twitter.com/tegmark https://vimeo.com/75833771 BTW Mad Max is now 50 years old:) http://news.mit.edu/2017/kingcarlxvigustafswedenvisitsmit0508 Max Tegmark, a professor of physics at MIT who was born in Stockholm, moderated the discussions, gave an introduction in Swedish to the delegation, and provided a few remarks of his own about artificial intelligence. 
Mr. Kevvy Send message Joined: 15 May 99 Posts: 2398 Credit: 639,261,718 RAC: 1,214,553 
This infinity business is similar to Achilles and the tortoise, where in theory he can never catch it because he will always be a tiny bit away from it, the series continues ad infinitum. Oh look another way of saying for infinity! Zeno's paradox... the intellectual leap the ancient Greeks don't seem to have universally made is that an infinite series can have a finite sum... ie: Archimedes was getting there, but the Romans... er... intervened. Also Aristotle although a philosopher understood it. They were very close to calculus, but lacked the algebraic framework and notation to support it. Side note: One of the niftiest and most counterintuitive results of this is that the "Harmonic Series"... ... diverges to infinity. It doesn't seem possible because after a few terms it grows so slowly and this rate falls off so fast.... it takes 144 iterations to get to 6, but to get to 10 takes 12,367, and to 100 takes over 10^{43}! Yet the proof is there in the article (Comparison Test proof) and quite easily understandable. Edit: one of the integral equations shown has ∞ as both the upper range of the integral and the result, showing its use in mathematics. “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.” Margaret Mead 
©2019 University of California
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST0307956.