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Profile Gordon Lowe
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Message 1864461 - Posted: 29 Apr 2017, 3:26:58 UTC

I'm not a smoker or an eater, but I do think marijuana consumption should be a legal option for everyone. This article in The New Yorker talks about the evolution of the pot brownie:

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/04/24/the-martha-stewart-of-marijuana-edibles
The mind is a weird and mysterious place
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Message 1864542 - Posted: 29 Apr 2017, 14:58:25 UTC

Reading today that one of our greater political parties wants to decriminalizate the use of drugs.
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/liberalernas-arbetsgrupp-vill-tillata-eget-bruk-av-narkotika
For 29 years it has been forbidden to use drugs in Sweden. Having traces of drugs in the blood can now give up to six months in prison, although the most common punishment is fines.

Since it's by far common to drink alcohol, why not?
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Message 1864544 - Posted: 29 Apr 2017, 15:02:05 UTC
Last modified: 29 Apr 2017, 15:31:18 UTC

A repost of something I wrote that was less on-topic in its original thread:
____

Yes, the party " of individual liberty'" wants to control the bedroom among other things.


The best example I can find of jaw-dropping hypocrisy I can think of is their stance on cannabis.

While simultaneously claiming to be the party of liberty, property rights, small government, tax savings, free enterprise and the reduction of crime, the prohibition of marijuana has jailed hundreds of thousands if not millions of citizens sometimes after no-knock raids on their private residences as if they were violent career criminals, deprived them of property through probably unconstitutional policies such as civil forfeiture, employed thousands of very expensive agents to arrest and incarcerate citizens, prevented a multi-billion-dollar industry from arising to legally produce and distribute this product and pay possibly billions of dollars in taxes, and instead redirected all of this money into the hands of horrifically violent criminal gangs who pay no taxes... the largest cartels in Mexico, for example, started with and still distribute marijuana with the U.S. their biggest customer. And they will continue to do so regardless!

I'm glad Canada is finally legalizing possession and purchasing of cannabis for personal use (in July 2018.) Unfortunately this won't be as complete as it should be but it's still a huge step in the right direction. Meanwhile Attorney General Sessions is promising more arrests, convictions and ruined lives of citizens for growing and consuming a natural plant of their own free will, overriding the states that have voted to legalize it. Oh wait, aren't they the party against "nanny state" regulations telling people what to do, and for "state's rights" as well? So much for that if the states happen to choose something they don't agree with.

(If it matters I don't even like the stuff... I tried it a few times when I was young and it does nothing but make me paranoid and anxious. So I don't have any self-interested reason for despising the legislation.)
____

I have yet to see any argument against cannabis that wouldn't apply tenfold to alcohol.

Edit: Just so I don't appear biased, I am also quite unhappy that the Democrats under Barack Obama had eight years in which they could have formally legalized, and did nothing. I also indicated that the "conservative" case for legalization is actually very strong, and the Republican Party is going directly against these principles to keep it illegal.

I also tend to use the term "cannabis" as this is the actual genus of the plant (Cannabis sativa) as well as the following:

Through the early 20th century, however, both the drug and the plant were more commonly known as "cannabis" or "hemp". "Marihuana"'s currency in American English increased dramatically in the 1930s, when it was preferred as an exotic-sounding alternative name during the debates of the drug's use. It has been suggested that it was promoted by opponents of the drug, who wanted to stigmatize it with a "foreign-sounding name". The word was codified into law and became part of common American English with the passing of the 1937 Marihuana tax act.


But to each their own. :^)
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Message 1864830 - Posted: 30 Apr 2017, 17:26:20 UTC

yes please!
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Message 1864832 - Posted: 30 Apr 2017, 17:48:21 UTC

I for one am glad to live in a state which no longer persecutes those who do use the herb. Jeff Sessions wants to revert to prohibition and the the growth of the prison industrial industry.
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Message 1864833 - Posted: 30 Apr 2017, 18:01:26 UTC

As always. In moderation anything goes.

http://herb.co/cooking-with-cannabis/
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Message 1864844 - Posted: 30 Apr 2017, 19:20:04 UTC - in response to Message 1864832.  

I for one am glad to live in a state which no longer persecutes those who do use the herb. Jeff Sessions wants to revert to prohibition and the the growth of the prison industrial industry.
Of course he does, prisoners who are mostly democrat can't vote, prison guards are mostly republican. Job security for Mr. Sessions.
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Message 1864845 - Posted: 30 Apr 2017, 19:25:39 UTC - in response to Message 1864844.  

I for one am glad to live in a state which no longer persecutes those who do use the herb. Jeff Sessions wants to revert to prohibition and the the growth of the prison industrial industry.
Of course he does, prisoners who are mostly democrat can't vote, prison guards are mostly republican. Job security for Mr. Sessions.


Yessir, a return to the 'war on drugs' and a return to mass incarceration.

Please stop, Mr. tRump, I can't take all this winning!
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Message 1865124 - Posted: 2 May 2017, 0:51:26 UTC - in response to Message 1864544.  


The best example I can find of jaw-dropping hypocrisy I can think of is their stance on cannabis.

While simultaneously claiming to be the party of liberty, property rights, small government, tax savings, free enterprise and the reduction of crime, the prohibition of marijuana has jailed hundreds of thousands if not millions of citizens sometimes after no-knock raids on their private residences as if they were violent career criminals, deprived them of property through probably unconstitutional policies such as civil forfeiture, employed thousands of very expensive agents to arrest and incarcerate citizens, prevented a multi-billion-dollar industry from arising to legally produce and distribute this product and pay possibly billions of dollars in taxes, and instead redirected all of this money into the hands of horrifically violent criminal gangs who pay no taxes... the largest cartels in Mexico, for example, started with and still distribute marijuana with the U.S. their biggest customer. And they will continue to do so regardless!

I'm glad Canada is finally legalizing possession and purchasing of cannabis for personal use (in July 2018.) Unfortunately this won't be as complete as it should be but it's still a huge step in the right direction. Meanwhile Attorney General Sessions is promising more arrests, convictions and ruined lives of citizens for growing and consuming a natural plant of their own free will, overriding the states that have voted to legalize it. Oh wait, aren't they the party against "nanny state" regulations telling people what to do, and for "state's rights" as well? So much for that if the states happen to choose something they don't agree with.

(If it matters I don't even like the stuff... I tried it a few times when I was young and it does nothing but make me paranoid and anxious. So I don't have any self-interested reason for despising the legislation.)
____

I have yet to see any argument against cannabis that wouldn't apply tenfold to alcohol.

Edit: Just so I don't appear biased, I am also quite unhappy that the Democrats under Barack Obama had eight years in which they could have formally legalized, and did nothing. I also indicated that the "conservative" case for legalization is actually very strong, and the Republican Party is going directly against these principles to keep it illegal.

I also tend to use the term "cannabis" as this is the actual genus of the plant (Cannabis sativa


Never a truer word said about American politics and the humble herb and can also apply to most other western country's where it's illegal
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Message 1866607 - Posted: 10 May 2017, 21:52:18 UTC

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Message 1866638 - Posted: 11 May 2017, 0:41:32 UTC - in response to Message 1866607.  

I've been doing that research for over 45 years. I don't have a final opinion so I shall continue.
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Message 1866642 - Posted: 11 May 2017, 1:15:02 UTC

I believe that a lot of us are doing the same thing. :-)

Cheers.
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Message 1866686 - Posted: 11 May 2017, 10:56:28 UTC
Last modified: 11 May 2017, 10:58:55 UTC

Vermont becomes the first state to legalize through legislation

Vermont’s Legislature become [sic] the first in the nation Wednesday to approve a recreational marijuana legalization bill.

Vermont's bill, which would legalize small amounts of marijuana possession in 2018 and anticipate the possibility of a taxed and regulated legal marijuana market, was approved in the Vermont House of Representatives on Wednesday afternoon by a vote of 79-66. The state Senate already passed the bill, so it will go directly to GOP Gov. Phil Scott.

Eight states — Alaska, California, Colorado, Maine, Massachusetts, Nevada, Oregon and Washington — and the District of Columbia have legalized marijuana following a voter referendum, but no state yet has legalized marijuana solely through the legislative process, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. Legalization advocates said bills were pending in other state legislatures.

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Message 1867099 - Posted: 13 May 2017, 11:00:50 UTC
Last modified: 13 May 2017, 11:22:31 UTC

Now why would anyone want to throw non-violent sellers and even buyers of a plant on the free market for personal use in prison, contrary to the very laws of their states? As always, follow the money...

Private prisons back Trump and could see big payoffs with new policies

WASHINGTON — Private prison companies, which stand to make big gains under President Trump’s tough new immigration orders, also have contributed big sums to pro-Trump groups, including the organization that raised a record $100 million for his inauguration last month.

GEO Group, one of the nation’s largest for-profit prison operators, donated $250,000 to support Trump’s inaugural festivities, Pablo Paez, the company’s vice president of corporate relations, told USA TODAY.

That’s on top of the $225,000 that a company subsidiary donated to a super PAC that spent some $22 million to help elect the real-estate magnate. Another prison operator, CoreCivic, gave $250,000 to support Trump’s inauguration, recently filed congressional reports show.

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Message 1867105 - Posted: 13 May 2017, 11:55:27 UTC - in response to Message 1867104.  
Last modified: 13 May 2017, 12:11:45 UTC

Prisons, before Privatization, were full of the same people.


Which people... the employees? The prisoners? The administrators? I have no idea what you are saying.

Just another 'Never Trump' allegation. Which only shows why the 'Never Trumpers' are not the alternative to Dangerous Trump.


I don't understand this either. Could we avoid the metaphors unless we agree in advance on what they mean? I have no idea what these mean.

In my opinion (allowed), and as I have repeatedly observed. Throwing a ton of garbage against the wall. Hoping something will stick. Destroys the 'Never Trumpers' position with the voters.


So... pointing out that the for-profit so-called justice system is profoundly corrupt in that it manufactures non-existent crimes in order to jail people to make money is "throwing a ton of garbage against the wall" and is going to alienate "the voters"? Just wanting to make sure I am understanding your metaphors.
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Message 1867108 - Posted: 13 May 2017, 12:26:49 UTC - in response to Message 1867107.  
Last modified: 13 May 2017, 12:37:22 UTC

Since the foundation of your argument is incorrect: That Marijuana sellers and users are being thrown into Prisons, because of Profits. When the same people were previously thrown into Non Profit Prisons.


So how would they be thrown into prison in a state that legalized marijuana?

Prisons, before Privatization, were full of the same people


Really? Now that you have confirmed that you meant the prisoners...

Judges Plead Guilty in Scheme to Jail Youths for Profit

At worst, Hillary Transue thought she might get a stern lecture when she appeared before a judge for building a spoof MySpace page mocking the assistant principal at her high school in Wilkes-Barre, Pa. She was a stellar student who had never been in trouble, and the page stated clearly at the bottom that it was just a joke.

Instead, the judge sentenced her to three months at a juvenile detention center on a charge of harassment.

She was handcuffed and taken away as her stunned parents stood by.

“I felt like I had been thrown into some surreal sort of nightmare,” said Hillary, 17, who was sentenced in 2007. “All I wanted to know was how this could be fair and why the judge would do such a thing.”

The answers became a bit clearer on Thursday as the judge, Mark A. Ciavarella Jr., and a colleague, Michael T. Conahan, appeared in federal court in Scranton, Pa., to plead guilty to wire fraud and income tax fraud for taking more than $2.6 million in kickbacks to send teenagers to two privately run youth detention centers run by PA Child Care and a sister company, Western PA Child Care.


The non-private prisons were not full of these people. But throw enough garbage arguments and maybe one will stick...

'Never Trump' has been used in the Media for years. You don't understand its use?


No, I don't. You just called the media the "lying media" yesterday anyway so why would you use them to back up a metaphor I don't understand.

Maybe provide a link to it?
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Message 1867112 - Posted: 13 May 2017, 12:53:41 UTC
Last modified: 13 May 2017, 12:58:53 UTC

Well, Clyde, you have done it again... you've completely derailed the "Marijuana" thread into one of your cut-and-paste general political diatribes. For example: "#1 - How do you know when a Politician is lying? When her/his mouth is moving." If anyone said this about Donald Trump, you couldn't dig out the "Never Trump" and "Looney Irrelevant Left" replies fast enough.

So, I'd like to get it back on track. Rather than reading everything you are against, which is all we seem to do, what are you for? What is your stance on the legalization of cannabis? You don't seem to be for it... please explain why and what the penalties should be. Should states be able to legalize it or should the federal law override? Do you think it is dangerous or unhealthy? Should it be legal for medical use?
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Message 1867115 - Posted: 13 May 2017, 13:24:07 UTC - in response to Message 1867114.  
Last modified: 13 May 2017, 13:34:56 UTC

Well we have actually made some progress... we agree on the prohibition aspect (I think it should be treated exactly like alcohol ie age-limit, laws against using while driving, etc.) So we can clear that off the table. There are also many other police officers who I am glad have taken this stand and understand that the "War on Drugs" has been a colossal and very costly failure especially applied to cannabis. Also as it's just a plant I am also in favour of allowing people to grow it themselves, just as people brew beer and make wine at home.... again like alcohol. Commercial sales may be regulated.

Now on the other topic:

I had provided evidence that the for-profit prison industry contributed over $100 million to the election of Donald Trump.
After election, Donald Trump's Attorney General Jeff Sessions indicated that he will be resuming prosecuting people for buying/selling cannabis even in states where it was legalized through the votes of citizens.
One of the core tenets of the Republican platform is supposed to be States' Rights, that states are allowed to choose their own legislation without the federal government overriding it unless it is unconstitutional (as per the 14th amendment.) This core tenet is being directly violated.
This violation will thus send thousands of people to the for-profit prison system (we'll have to disregard the ruined lives and huge waste of tax money for the time being.)

So, how can this not be motivated by profit and the for-profit prison companies getting their "payback" for their campaign contributions?

I also provided a rather solid counterargument to your assertion that the same people would be in for-profit prisons as without them, the article that judges were convicted of taking $2.6 million in kickbacks for sending teenagers to for-profit prisons for made-up crimes. This shows that the for-profit prison system is open to abuse and corruption. (I can link to the actual court case if you like, if you doubt the validity of the New York Times...)

Citations can be provided on request.
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Message 1867289 - Posted: 14 May 2017, 17:55:57 UTC - in response to Message 1867104.  
Last modified: 14 May 2017, 17:58:43 UTC


Prisons, before Privatization, were full of the same people.
...

...Judge Ciavarella, who sentenced around 3,000 children in a similar manner, was later sentenced himself to 28 years in prison for financial crimes related to his acceptance of $2.2 million as a finder’s fee for the construction of a for-profit facility in which to house these so-called delinquents.

The scandal was called “Kids for Cash,”




Corruption, greed and previous examples prove and dictate that for-profit facilities are in fact NOT full of the 'same' people as before...

[edit] WOW, I posted this before I saw Mr. Kevy pointed it out already. Good call man!
And this is probably one of the very few cases like this that was actually proven in court. Imagine what gets swept under the rug...
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Message 1867292 - Posted: 14 May 2017, 18:13:09 UTC - in response to Message 1867289.  
Last modified: 14 May 2017, 18:13:34 UTC

The prison industrial complex is a cash cow for the oligarchs. Look for it to expand with the current AG. I wonder if he is a share holder.
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