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Atheism is not a religion
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OzzFan Send message Joined: 9 Apr 02 Posts: 15691 Credit: 84,761,841 RAC: 28 |
I'm merely opening this up as a topic for discussion in case anyone wants to carry on. If not, this thread can die a natural death. Please post if you wish to discuss or gain a better understanding. |
Gordon Lowe Send message Joined: 5 Nov 00 Posts: 12094 Credit: 6,317,865 RAC: 0 |
Thanks Ozz for the new thread. Quoting OzzFan's post from the Trump Healthcare thread that unraveled into religion: But to the original claim, to say that non-belief is a religion is what I particularly take exception with. Maybe we should re-open a new thread for this topic and I'd be more willing to hash it out again, but to say that atheism is a religion is to not really understand what atheism is. I know atheism basically means no religion, or no belief in religion, but my semantic way of looking at is that non-belief is a belief system in and of itself. To not believe is to believe in not believing. [Edit added}~ And isn't a belief system a religion? The mind is a weird and mysterious place |
OzzFan Send message Joined: 9 Apr 02 Posts: 15691 Credit: 84,761,841 RAC: 28 |
Everyone has a belief system, but a belief system isn't necessarily religion by definition. Stating you have no religious belief system, while accepting that you do have a belief system, doesn't automatically correlate to having a religion. And I am using the definition of religion here exclusively: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion Definition of religion It takes mental gymnastics to try to fit atheism into that. There is no institutionalized system of beliefs or practices for atheism. Each atheist has their own individual set of beliefs, and even many share a set of beliefs, but that's not institutionalized by any means. |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24877 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
This is taken from American Atheists: Atheism is too often defined incorrectly as a belief system.Most atheists I know believes in evolution without the influence of a deity. No problem with that, but it is a belief. |
Mr. Kevvy Send message Joined: 15 May 99 Posts: 3776 Credit: 1,114,826,392 RAC: 3,319 |
Most atheists I know believes in evolution without the influence of a deity. No problem with that, but it is a belief. Most people, atheists and otherwise, also believe that if you drop an apple, gravity pulls it down rather than an invisible angel pushing it. No problem with that, but it is a belief. You can thus call anything a belief if you want to. |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24877 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
You can thus call anything a belief if you want to. Debatable :-) The sun will die one day - Fact or belief? |
Mr. Kevvy Send message Joined: 15 May 99 Posts: 3776 Credit: 1,114,826,392 RAC: 3,319 |
[The sun will die one day - Fact or belief? The sun is already dead... geez... what could live at that temperature? :^) Real answer: There is much well-supported, peer-reviewed and tested scientific evidence to support the assertion that it will run out of energy and "die". It may be called "factual" insomuch as there is no similar evidence otherwise, but the event has not occurred yet. Oversimplification and misuse of meanings is what leads to these "issues:". |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24877 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
Oversimplification and misuse of meanings is what leads to these "issues:". Doesn't simplification provide a better visual image than too much academic mumbo jumbo? |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30608 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
The sun will die one day - Fact or belief?First you have to believe it is alive. BTW it doesn't "die". Its mass continues to exist. |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24877 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
..but it's energy is dead :-)The sun will die one day - Fact or belief?First you have to believe it is alive. |
Darth Beaver Send message Joined: 20 Aug 99 Posts: 6728 Credit: 21,443,075 RAC: 3 |
BTW it doesn't "die". Its mass continues to exist. Umm first it turns into a red giant then implodes and explodes at the same time and dies as it's no longer a sun but a white or brown dwarf but it will stop being a sun so that's a death and what a bang it will produce when it gets that far into it's life/death |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
..but it's energy is dead :-)The sun will die one day - Fact or belief?First you have to believe it is alive. Nope. Energy comes in many forms and will never die. Most scientist belive in Big Bang. From nothing came everything. |
OzzFan Send message Joined: 9 Apr 02 Posts: 15691 Credit: 84,761,841 RAC: 28 |
Oversimplification and misuse of meanings is what leads to these "issues:". Probably not a "better" visual image. It is certainly easier to visualize simple things than complex ones. |
OzzFan Send message Joined: 9 Apr 02 Posts: 15691 Credit: 84,761,841 RAC: 28 |
You can thus call anything a belief if you want to. Acceptance of facts boil down to belief. However, the facts will be facts whether we believe them or not. |
W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19012 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 |
I believe in facts. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30608 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
You disbelieve E=mc^2 Time to tie you to the stake and have a BBQ! ;-)..but it's energy is dead :-)The sun will die one day - Fact or belief?First you have to believe it is alive. |
KWSN - MajorKong Send message Joined: 5 Jan 00 Posts: 2892 Credit: 1,499,890 RAC: 0 |
Everyone has a belief system, but a belief system isn't necessarily religion by definition. Stating you have no religious belief system, while accepting that you do have a belief system, doesn't automatically correlate to having a religion. You appear to be referring to meaning #2. "A personal set OR institutionalized system...". 'Institutional' is not a requirement. Atheism is just as much a religion as say, for instance, Roman Catholicism. https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE #Texit Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016. Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power. |
KWSN - MajorKong Send message Joined: 5 Jan 00 Posts: 2892 Credit: 1,499,890 RAC: 0 |
This is taken from American Atheists: A belief in evolution without the influence of a deity is not unique to atheists. Quite a number of deists I know believe that as well. https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE #Texit Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016. Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power. |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
Quite a lot of deists can explain matters without the influence of a deity. One for instance. Georges Lemaître that was a Belgian priest, astronomer and professor of physics at the Catholic University of Leuven Some more... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Catholic_scientists |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30608 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Everyone has a belief system, but a belief system isn't necessarily religion by definition. Stating you have no religious belief system, while accepting that you do have a belief system, doesn't automatically correlate to having a religion. I think I much prefer https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/religion 1. The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods. Sometimes one needs to go to sources that don't change as winds blow and keep original meanings. |
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