This whole discussion is mute. It's been rehashed time and time again. The only way it will ever change is IF and when Dr. A makes the decision.

Ah but didn't you know that in the Boincverse there are two addictions worse than smack & weed - TC & RAC.

"Mute" is easy, unsubscribe. "Moot", on the other hand, remains open to debate ...
Regarding TC & RAC, if you can't measure it, it isn't science.
:P

---

Too true Jim.. damn autocorrect on phone..

---

This whole discussion is mute. It's been rehashed time and time again. The only way it will ever change is IF and when Dr. A makes the decision.

. . That is so very true. All the discussion in the world will change nothing until Dr A decides to do so.

Stephen

According to IBM, Informix does have limits, so the question is: Has Seti reached those limits or will it ever reach those limits?

Informix limits

IIRC some years back Matt stated we were in daqger of bumping into the limits.

---

According to IBM, Informix does have limits, so the question is: Has Seti reached those limits or will it ever reach those limits?

Informix limits

My brain want s to tell me that they are using something like version 10.
So that may or may not matter. It looks like the limits from 11.5 to 12 are pretty much the same.

---

SETI@home classic workunits: 93,865 CPU time: 863,447 hours
Join the [url=http://tinyurl.com/8y46zvu]BP6/VP6 User Group[

This whole discussion is mute. It's been rehashed time and time again. The only way it will ever change is IF and when Dr. A makes the decision.

Ah but didn't you know that in the Boincverse there are two addictions worse than smack & weed - TC & RAC.

It's non PC to upset those afflicted :-)

. . But you have missed the third one, the religion of the status quo, where it is heresy to express concern over any issues. It is a sin to cause affront to those afflicted with this disease.

Stephen

:)

LOL.

"Please forgive my sins Father"

"No problem my son
Just kneel at the altar of the CPU GPU & say

3 Our Windows
&
6 Hail Linux'es

As one with a top twenty cruncher, which most of the contributors to this thread do not have,

. . Kudos on your contribution but that doesn't make your opinion any more valid or applicable than any one elses

I can honestly say - "You greedy bunch of twonks".

. . And I can honestly say "You arrogant snob!"

I live with the limits, the fact is that most weekly outages at least two of my crunchers run out of work. The key thing is what I said earlier, and this is repeating the long stated policy of SETI@Home, that there is NEVER going to be a guarantee of work from the project, be it for a short period of time, or over a longer period.

. . You are not alone, most of the people here have one or more rigs that run out of work during the ever lengthening outages. Your attitude is fine as a personal opinion but that does not mean others are not entitled to their own and have to adopt yours. As for the "no guarantee of work" that is fine too, in the sense there may not be work to be processed. But most of the users "moaning" here are concerned one way or another with the efficiency of the processing of their own rigs, and feel a personal involvement with the project to the extent they would like to see a high efficiency there as well, and that means using resources effectively. So when there IS work to be processed and there are these high capacity machines being made available to the project at no cost to the project only to the contributors, some of the those contributors, even if you don't, feel that some degree of support and effective utilisation of those resources would be nice. And on that point I would like to know how you justify, even to yourself, the use of the word 'greedy'. Since there is no reward for any contributor, great or small, except a warm feeling for getting it right and maybe making a difference.

So I would suggest if you don't like that go to another project and donate your time to that one. Otherwise stop moaning.

. . And I say to you if you don't like the "moaning" then perhaps you should restrict yourself to reading other threads and stop jumping all over the people expressing their concerns in this one.

Stephen

.

+1 Well said.

---

Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours

A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association)

This whole discussion is mute. It's been rehashed time and time again. The only way it will ever change is IF and when Dr. A makes the decision.

Ah but didn't you know that in the Boincverse there are two addictions worse than smack & weed - TC & RAC.

It's non PC to upset those afflicted :-)

I think you statement is not MOOT.

---

Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours

A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association)

This whole discussion is mute. It's been rehashed time and time again. The only way it will ever change is IF and when Dr. A makes the decision.

Ah but didn't you know that in the Boincverse there are two addictions worse than smack & weed - TC & RAC.

It's non PC to upset those afflicted :-)

. . But you have missed the third one, the religion of the status quo, where it is heresy to express concern over any issues. It is a sin to cause affront to those afflicted with this disease.

Stephen

:)

+1 I don't care about RAC. I care about the science. That is why I also contribute processing power to my other two favorite projects, MilkyWay and Einstein. No problem having them as backup projects for when SETI falls over. What I care about is the efficiency of the project in its management. It is a shame to not put my considerable investments in processing to work at all times. I figure I have spent something close to $80,000 on distributed computing so far. I have been crunching continuously since Classic days in 2001. I am not moaning or bellyaching in this thread over the lack of increase in my RAC, I am simply pointing out there are several avenues for improvement. There have been very good suggestions recently on how to make the project run smoother. I should be able to state my suggestions without the fervent status quo element piping in that I should leave the project just because I offer an opinion or suggestion on how to make changes for the better.

---

Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours

A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association)

This whole discussion is mute. It's been rehashed time and time again. The only way it will ever change is IF and when Dr. A makes the decision.

. . That is so very true. All the discussion in the world will change nothing until Dr A decides to do so.

Stephen

+1

---

Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours

A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association)

This whole discussion is mute. It's been rehashed time and time again. The only way it will ever change is IF and when Dr. A makes the decision.

. . That is so very true. All the discussion in the world will change nothing until Dr A decides to do so.

Stephen

+1

Well yes and no. Since the estimate mechanisms (which drive the whole thing) are based on an outdated programming model, at some point it's inevitable that a widely needed technological change will break the whole system, requiring some more bandaids. Those events aren't in Dr A's control, as for example happened with the introduction of GPUs. The two upcoming examples I'm thinking of would be Convolutional Neural Network approaches, and local heterogeneous clustering. The first case would have arbitrary runtimes compared to the classical model, and the second case from similar to nonsensical. As it stands, two different speed GPUs of the same class [in the same system] are already problematic for estimates.

---

"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.

. . But you have missed the third one, the religion of the status quo, where it is heresy to express concern over any issues. It is a sin to cause affront to those afflicted with this disease.

Stephen

:)

Yeah, that's the one that gets my motor running ...

---

.... As it stands, two different speed GPUs of the same class [in the same system] are already problematic for estimates.

Al the more reason for Petri to send me his Ti, I would hate to see it cause problems!

Some folks set up backup projects for when Seti runs low on work.
I just let the crunchers take a little break if they run out during the outages.
Not that big a deal for a few hours or so.
And they just merrily pick back up when the servers catch their breath.

Meow.

---

"Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once."

LOL.

"Please forgive my sins Father"

"No problem my son
Just kneel at the altar of the CPU GPU & say

3 Our Windows
&
6 Hail Linux'es

:)

To see the outcry & demands for explanations when the project itself stated from day one that it cannot guarantee work is hilarious.

Being curious about what went wrong hardly qualifies as "Outcrying and demanding", some of us are just interested in what the issue was.


And once again we need to clarify the issue as people seem intent on ignoring what is said and putting their spin on it.

If there is no data to crunch, then it's not there. It can't be crunched. It's not an issue.
What is an issue is that there is data to be crunched, and it can't be processed because we can't get it.

It has been said that there will be more data than present crunchers can hope to process in a reasonable time frame, so the project needs more members. However if those people aren't able to process the work that is there waiting for them, it's still not going to get done, and they aren't likely to hang around waiting for it and will just head for other projects that can supply them with work.
If the project was only able to be up for a couple of days a fortnight, as long as people were able to get work to see them through they will continue to remain here. If not, many of them will go elsewhere.

Pointing out issues, making suggestions, and asking "What happened?" isn't moaning.

---

Grant
Darwin NT

If there is no data to crunch, then it's not there. It can't be crunched. It's not an issue.
What is an issue is that there is data to be crunched, and it can't be processed because we can't get it.

Well put, and really at the heart of the matter.

---

If there is no data to crunch, then it's not there. It can't be crunched. It's not an issue.
What is an issue is that there is data to be crunched, and it can't be processed because we can't get it.

The outage was still in effect. According to the server status page at the time, there were 5 programs disabled & 7 not running. What's difficult to understand about that & why is an explanation needed, when the answer is on the server status page?

Yes, there have been some server problems that have been getting in the way of work being properly distributed.
Is that the end of the project?

I don't think so.
Get real, kitties. This is a long term effort, and sh$t is gonna happen.
Get over it, please.

Meow.

---

"Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once."