Yes Sirius B. you are a broken record :-D :-D :-D

Which was your response to:

"If not fired by Trump" is wonderful :)
Well he's playing a game. We all know that.

Whats worse. Many of the US voters doesn't seem to realize that...

What we have is a combination Pro Trump, Anti Democrat Party and Anti Radical Left.

Believing that the Democrat Party's Leadership and the Radical Left are as bad if not worse than Trump. Is not an unreasonable belief.

Excepting to those who believe that those they disagree with are ignorant, stupid, a low life, etc.

They are the real problem in attempting to have an intelligent discussion regarding disagreements.

Especially in Social Media. Where the thugs, bullies, name callers, et al have taken over the discussion.

Keep it up!

:-D :-D :-D

---

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
--- George Santayana

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
--- Lord Acton

"If not fired by Trump" is wonderful :)

Well he's playing a game. We all know that.

Whats worse. Many of the US voters doesn't seem to realize that...

What we have is a combination Pro Trump, Anti Democrat Party and Anti Radical Left.

Believing that the Democrat Party's Leadership and the Radical Left are as bad if not worse than Trump. Is not an unreasonable belief.

Excepting to those who believe that those they disagree with are ignorant, stupid, a low life, etc.

They are the real problem in attempting to have an intelligent discussion regarding disagreements.

Especially in Social Media. Where the thugs, bullies, name callers, et al have taken over the discussion.

---

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
--- George Santayana

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
--- Lord Acton

"If not fired by Trump" is wonderful :)

Well he's playing a game. We all know that.

Whats worse. Many of the US voters doesn't seem to realize that...

Believing that today's American people will go to war against a Russian land invasion of the Baltic States or Eastern Europe, is not warranted.

Quite agree. However, you cannot show anywhere on these threads where anyone has stated that they should.

https://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=81035&postid=1975410#1975410

https://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=81035&postid=1975478#1975478

Tut tut Clyde, at least refer to "correct" info. Your 1st was referring to European troops dying for America.
The 2nd link was referring to Article 5 of NATO. It does not show where anyone on these boards saying Americans should die for Europe.

You didn't really think that I would not check your links? Tut tut.

Believing that today's American people will go to war against a Russian land invasion of the Baltic States or Eastern Europe, is not warranted.

Quite agree. However, you cannot show anywhere on these threads where anyone has stated that they should.

https://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=81035&postid=1975410#1975410

https://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=81035&postid=1975478#1975478

---

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
--- George Santayana

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
--- Lord Acton

ATM, I think Europe's answer to America should be "kiss my butt". :-)

I think the Secretary General of NATO, Jens Stoltenberg, wouldn't be so explicit:)
http:///en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jens_Stoltenberg
Luckily there are some like Jens and in the NATO command that are sensible.
Yes. Even some Americans. If not fired by Trump that is...

"If not fired by Trump" is wonderful :)

---

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
--- George Santayana

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
--- Lord Acton

That would be the appropriate response to President Gump.

That or " Could you please put an adult on the phone?"

---

Janice

Address not valid. You've put 1 / too many.

ATM, I think Europe's answer to America should be "kiss my butt". :-)

I think the Secretary General of NATO, Jens Stoltenberg, wouldn't be so explicit:)
http:///en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jens_Stoltenberg
Luckily there are some like Jens and in the NATO command that are sensible.
Yes. Even some Americans. If not fired by Trump that is...

No. NATO according to the US is to protect American interests, nothing else.

True but a by product of those interests just happens to be the protection of Europe via their "International economic interests", which I believe it is a fair question that America asks of NATO countries - Increase your contributions & as I just stated, play fair on International trade & it will a very valid request. ATM, I think Europe's answer to America should be "kiss my butt". :-)

As for the U.S. 2nd fleet.
They don't even mention NATO and the obligations being a NATO member.
http://navylive.dodlive.mil/2018/08/24/six-things-you-need-to-know-about-u-s-2nd-fleet/
I seriously doubt that their fleet was requested by NATO members in those regions, North Atlantic Ocean, that the U.S. 2nd fleet are now to "help" them.
No. NATO according to the US is to protect American interests, nothing else.

Believing that today's American people will go to war against a Russian land invasion of the Baltic States or Eastern Europe, is not warranted.

Quite agree. However, you cannot show anywhere on these threads where anyone has stated that they should.
As for China, wasn't it America that opened the door to their economy? Another "International economic interest"?

The United States banned trade with China until the early 1970s. Thereafter trade grew rapidly, and after the full normalization of diplomatic and commercial relations in 1979, the United States became the second largest importer to China and in 1986 was China's third largest partner in overall trade.

So as you continue to state that China is becoming not only a powerful economy but a "lawless" one, shouldn't you be concentrating on protecting America rather that worry about Europe?

.The American people have no interest, unlike Vietnam, in losing 50,000, 100,000 or more young men and women to protect Europe.

So the 90,000 personnel of the 2nd fleet don't count as they are not land based personnel?
As for protecting Europe - Rubbish!
It was stated in 1898 that "We must build up our navy to be powerful enough to "safeguard" our domestic & International economic interests"

YOU are not protecting Europe & you never did. All that was done was protecting your "economic interests". You are not & never had been the world's policeman for that very same reason.

So as a by-product of that 1898 statement & confirmed by subsequent events, Europe was automatically protected & pays towards the cost. The day America plays fair on International trade will be the day you can demand that NATO countries increase their contributions. Since 1898, it has always been & will continue to be America First.

After 1898 and 'Teddy' Roosevelt, we again reverted to our Isolationism.

After WW1 we again reverted to our Isolationism.

And after the Post WW2 era?

Believing that today's American people will go to war against a Russian land invasion of the Baltic States or Eastern Europe, is not warranted.

---

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
--- George Santayana

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
--- Lord Acton

.The American people have no interest, unlike Vietnam, in losing 50,000, 100,000 or more young men and women to protect Europe.

So the 90,000 personnel of the 2nd fleet don't count as they are not land based personnel?
As for protecting Europe - Rubbish!
It was stated in 1898 that "We must build up our navy to be powerful enough to "safeguard" our domestic & International economic interests"

YOU are not protecting Europe & you never did. All that was done was protecting your "economic interests". You are not & never had been the world's policeman for that very same reason.

So as a by-product of that 1898 statement & confirmed by subsequent events, Europe was automatically protected & pays towards the cost. The day America plays fair on International trade will be the day you can demand that NATO countries increase their contributions. Since 1898, it has always been & will continue to be America First.

As you continuously fail to answer straight forward questions Clyde, I'll answer one for you & once the answer is provided, please explain to us, WHO in Europe requested it & why.

The United States Second Fleet is a numbered fleet in the United States Navy responsible for the East Coast and North Atlantic Ocean. The Fleet was established following World War II. In September 2011, Second Fleet was deactivated in view of the United States Government's perception that the potential military threat posed by Russia had diminished. On 4 May 2018, Admiral John M. Richardson, the Chief of Naval Operations (United States Navy), announced plans to re-establish Second Fleet amid heightened tensions between NATO and Russia. It was re-established on 24 August 2018, with Vice Admiral Andrew “Woody” Lewis in command (United States Navy). Rear Adm. Doug Perry, director of joint and fleet operations at Fleet Forces Command (United States Navy), was quoted in early November 2018 that the fleet was reformed because '..the Navy needed a commander to direct sustained combat operations in the Atlantic'. Perry made clear that the stand-up sends the message that “we understand we are in a battle for the Atlantic, and we will contest it

The info in brackets have been added by me, the rest is a valid & true statement.

Correct, that is his mission if there is a "battle for the Atlantic."

Not a Russian land attack against Country's on its borders or further.

Unlike the WW2 generation which has passed on. Unless there is a direct attack against the USA. The American people have no interest, unlike Vietnam, in losing 50,000, 100,000 or more young men and women to protect Europe.

The WW2 generation that defended Western Europe with the threat of national nuclear suicide if the Soviets attacked are, as I have said, gone.

To be replaced with a new generation of people with different life experiences and beliefs.

Yes, as I have correctly noted. All eras come to an end. This includes the Pax Americana - Post WW2 era.

Edited to remove duplicate word.

---

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
--- George Santayana

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
--- Lord Acton

As you continuously fail to answer straight forward questions Clyde, I'll answer one for you & once the answer is provided, please explain to us, WHO in Europe requested it & why.

The United States Second Fleet is a numbered fleet in the United States Navy responsible for the East Coast and North Atlantic Ocean. The Fleet was established following World War II. In September 2011, Second Fleet was deactivated in view of the United States Government's perception that the potential military threat posed by Russia had diminished. On 4 May 2018, Admiral John M. Richardson, the Chief of Naval Operations (United States Navy), announced plans to re-establish Second Fleet amid heightened tensions between NATO and Russia. It was re-established on 24 August 2018, with Vice Admiral Andrew “Woody” Lewis in command (United States Navy). Rear Adm. Doug Perry, director of joint and fleet operations at Fleet Forces Command (United States Navy), was quoted in early November 2018 that the fleet was reformed because '..the Navy needed a commander to direct sustained combat operations in the Atlantic'. Perry made clear that the stand-up sends the message that “we understand we are in a battle for the Atlantic, and we will contest it

The info in brackets have been added by me, the rest is a valid & true statement.

Can you for the first time. Please give specific examples regarding my posts regarding International Commerce, Russia Military Strength, NATO Military Strength, etc. and not your name calling needs?

Europe needs International Commerce and an International Policeman to protect its economic interests.

BTW: We were neither defending ourselves, nor cared regarding another typical and stupid European War. Which we now refer to as WW2.

Until... On December 11, 1941 Hitler declared war against the USA. If he did not not, we would have just fought the Japanese Empire who attacked us. Leaving Europe to either a victorious Hitler. Or if Russia could defeat Germany, to a victorious Stalin.

Today, you now have to deal with two expanding and lawless powerful and getting more powerful Countries. As the USA can 'sit' in the America's and watch Europe kiss Putin's or his replacement butt while watching China's expansion.

Once again, your obsession with Europe, China & Russia is fascinating. So the USA can "sit & watch"? WHO requested that your Atlantic 2nd fleet be re-commissioned?

So you don't believe that Europe's economies are part of International Commerce?

If you do agree. You don't believe that this will need enforcement by 'Policemen' with the military power to quickly stop those Bad Actors closing down certain sea lanes?

You don't believe that it is possible that the USA could revert back to its historical Isolationism?

You don't believe that the Expanding Chinese and Russian Empires are a threat?

---

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
--- George Santayana

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
--- Lord Acton

Can you for the first time. Please give specific examples regarding my posts regarding International Commerce, Russia Military Strength, NATO Military Strength, etc. and not your name calling needs?

Europe needs International Commerce and an International Policeman to protect its economic interests.

BTW: We were neither defending ourselves, nor cared regarding another typical and stupid European War. Which we now refer to as WW2.

Until... On December 11, 1941 Hitler declared war against the USA. If he did not not, we would have just fought the Japanese Empire who attacked us. Leaving Europe to either a victorious Hitler. Or if Russia could defeat Germany, to a victorious Stalin.

Today, you now have to deal with two expanding and lawless powerful and getting more powerful Countries. As the USA can 'sit' in the America's and watch Europe kiss Putin's or his replacement butt while watching China's expansion.

Once again, your obsession with Europe, China & Russia is fascinating. So the USA can "sit & watch"? WHO requested that your Atlantic 2nd fleet be re-commissioned?

In logic, the term statement is variously understood to mean either: (a) a meaningful declarative sentence that is true or false, or. (b) the assertion that is made by a true or false declarative sentence.

In my case, it is true because there have been numerous occasions where you stated you were a history teacher. Are you now declaring that fact is actually false?

You tirade regarding Europe Russia & China is becoming obsessive. When did Europe request the re-commissioning of your 2nd fleet to protect them?

BTW, try to answer the question. :-)

"For a former history teacher, you do spout asinine bovine excrement."

Dear Sirius B.

Can you for the first time. Please give specific examples of my posts regarding International Commerce, Russia Military Strength, NATO Military Strength, etc. and not your name calling needs?

Sincerely, Clyde "Liberal"

---

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
--- George Santayana

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
--- Lord Acton