Ukraine/Crimea

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moomin
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Message 1970186 - Posted: 13 Dec 2018, 20:57:40 UTC - in response to Message 1970161.  

I wonder why he's shocked. It's nothing new.
Last year celebrating Bandera at his birth on January 1.
https://www.unian.info/society/2327799-over-6500-people-take-part-in-events-across-ukraine-to-honor-bandera.html
But apparently now even Ukrainian oblast councils declare Bandera years on top of that.
Lviv and also Zhytomyr :(
http://24-my.info/in-the-lviv-region-2019-declared-the-year-of-bandera/
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Message 1970310 - Posted: 14 Dec 2018, 15:43:59 UTC
Last modified: 14 Dec 2018, 16:08:27 UTC

Why is Putin so keen off Ukriane?
Maybe there is an answer to that.
Vatrushki (ukrainian: ватрушка)
The name comes from Ukrainian word vatra (Ukrainian: ватра) which means fireplace, brasa.
Putin once shared memories about his mother who "baked pies with cabbage, meat, or rice - and vatrushki (pies with cottage cheese)

And Ukha of course, a fish soup that originate from the Don region.
Yes. Donbass:)
https://www.rbth.com/russian-kitchen/326728-what-does-russian-president-putin-eat
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Message 1970428 - Posted: 15 Dec 2018, 6:03:52 UTC

moomin's post, as usually, contain many incorrect (or false) information.
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Message 1970430 - Posted: 15 Dec 2018, 6:21:19 UTC - in response to Message 1970428.  

moomin's post, as usually, contain many incorrect (or false) information.
How so?

Please elaborate.
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Message 1970440 - Posted: 15 Dec 2018, 8:02:51 UTC
Last modified: 15 Dec 2018, 8:33:14 UTC

"Vatrushka "- the etymology (i.e. origin) of the word is unclear. Yes, first hypothesis derives the name from the word "vatra", but "vatra" is not only Ukrainian word. And there is two other hypotheses about etymology of this word.
"Ukha" as a fish soup, was known in central and north Russia for centuries before Russians populates the Don region.
"Donbass", the origin of this name ("Donetskiy basseyn") is from the name of Donets (Seversky Donets) river, not the Don river. And the Don river is located in Russia, outside Ukraine.
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Message 1970464 - Posted: 15 Dec 2018, 13:08:37 UTC - in response to Message 1970440.  
Last modified: 15 Dec 2018, 13:24:35 UTC

Vatruska is a Ukrainian sweetbread which is also popular throughout Eastern Europe.
Reference Stechishin, Savella. (1991). Traditional Ukrainian Cookery. London: Trident Press Ltd. Libris 9780919490369
https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatruska

Ukha is mostly associated in Russia with the Don region.
The roots of the soup probably originated in the culture of the Russian Cossack steppe riders.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukha
Donskaya Ukha
http://welcome2018.com/en/journal/materials/rostov_on_don_volunteers_help_to_conduct_annual_donskaya_ukha_festival/

Donets is a tributary to Don.
Maybe our Vikings got lost there.
In Snorre Sturlason's Heimskringla, Don is called Vanakvisl and Tanakvisl.
But I think the fishes that swim in the Don also swim in the Donets:)
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Message 1970535 - Posted: 15 Dec 2018, 21:20:55 UTC
Last modified: 15 Dec 2018, 22:12:37 UTC

Ukha. Ukha is NOT mostly associated in Russia with the Don region. The roots of the soup originated long before appearance of Don's Russian Cossacks. Reading some local myths from some articles of Wikipedia don't give the real knowledge. LOL.

Vatrushka. Despite of etymology, most population of Belarus and Russia perceive Vatrushkas as product of their local cuisine, without thought about Ukraine.
--------------------------------------------
Vatrushka (Belarusian, Russian and Ukrainian: ватрушка) is an Eastern European pastry
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatrushka
--------------------------------------------

Donets is a tributary of Don, but this fact change nothing in my previous post. Donbass is Donets region, not the Don region.

P.S. Yes, moomin never recognizes his mistakes.
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Message 1970539 - Posted: 15 Dec 2018, 21:34:30 UTC

Or, like some others around here, facts don't matter in an alternative universe. ;-)

Cheers.
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Message 1970542 - Posted: 15 Dec 2018, 21:50:56 UTC - in response to Message 1970539.  
Last modified: 15 Dec 2018, 21:59:42 UTC

Wiggo, please ask many Russians (not from the Don region), is the "ukha" really mostly associated in Russia with the Don region and Don cossacks. You will listen something that contradict of strange info from Wiki.
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Message 1970556 - Posted: 15 Dec 2018, 23:05:19 UTC - in response to Message 1970535.  

Ukha. Ukha is NOT mostly associated in Russia with the Don region. The roots of the soup originated long before appearance of Don's Russian Cossacks. Reading some local myths from some articles of Wikipedia don't give the real knowledge. LOL.

Vatrushka. Despite of etymology, most population of Belarus and Russia perceive Vatrushkas as product of their local cuisine, without thought about Ukraine.
--------------------------------------------
Vatrushka (Belarusian, Russian and Ukrainian: ватрушка) is an Eastern European pastry
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatrushka
--------------------------------------------

Donets is a tributary of Don, but this fact change nothing in my previous post. Donbass is Donets region, not the Don region.

P.S. Yes, moomin never recognizes his mistakes.
LOL:)
Reading some local myths from some articles of Wikipedia don't give the real knowledge.
I read the "local myth" about fish soups from an article from Rostov-on-Don and the Rostov region as I also gave a link to.
Lets try again. "Don fish soup is one of the main dishes of the Cossack cuisine; it is included in the list of the most popular national dishes in Russia."

You trust the English Wiki more than the Swedish Wiki. Hehe:)
It so happens that Sweden and Ukraine has a long history connecting us.
About 1000 years. That goes for Russia as well as you well know.
Britain came in many years later. In the first Crimean war I think that was about 150 years ago.
Still the fishes in the Donets and the Don share the same waters:)

As for food cultures. Heck. Russia is not the only country in this world that like beets.
Welcome to Sweden, Finland and Estonia!
Or fish soups for that matter:)
Or sweetbreads like Vatrushka for that matter as well:)
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Message 1970568 - Posted: 16 Dec 2018, 0:21:47 UTC
Last modified: 16 Dec 2018, 0:25:20 UTC

Igor.
I have discussed with an other russian fellow, Vadim, on this very forum and also in the PM, about Swedish/Russian relationships.
He is from Samara at the Volga river.
He didn't say anything about that I am wrong about anything.
In the contrary we noticed we have a lot of common.
Like talking about Swedish gymnastic walls in schools. Hehe:)
However you say that I don't know nothing about Russia.
It doesn't make sense Igor!
Which make me think. Have you ever been to the Europian Russia?
Like Moscow or St Petersburg?
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Message 1970593 - Posted: 16 Dec 2018, 3:08:09 UTC
Last modified: 16 Dec 2018, 3:22:46 UTC

Also, Russian Wikipedia page about Ukha contain many information and everybody can read it in translation and find something about Don -
http://www.translate.ru/site/General/ru-en/?url=https%3a%2f%2fru.wikipedia.org%2fwiki%2f%D0%A3%D1%85%D0%B0

P.S. An allegory. The person from Panama, which does not speak English, or the WASP from Canada, who of them knows US better?
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Message 1970606 - Posted: 16 Dec 2018, 5:42:11 UTC - in response to Message 1970593.  

P.S. An allegory. The person from Panama, which does not speak English, or the WASP from Canada, who of them knows US better?

Don't assume the Panamanian doesn't speak English, and don't assume the WASP does.
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Message 1970644 - Posted: 16 Dec 2018, 9:48:57 UTC - in response to Message 1970606.  
Last modified: 16 Dec 2018, 9:49:31 UTC

Gary, of course, you can prefer fantasies from the pseudo-expert, because pseudo-information in fantasies corresponds to mentality more, than the uncomfortable truth.
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Message 1970653 - Posted: 16 Dec 2018, 10:38:45 UTC
Last modified: 16 Dec 2018, 10:40:18 UTC

Also, Russian Wikipedia page about Ukha contain many information and everybody can read it in translation and find something about Don -
http://www.translate.ru/site/General/ru-en/?url=https%3a%2f%2fru.wikipedia.org%2fwiki%2f%D0%A3%D1%85%D0%B0

Russian Wiki doesn't mention the origin of Uhka at all.
However Boris knows how to make Ukha.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3yOOc47n9E&list=PLbS0HkS8Xsorrdr3pPk4lP80tUAzfyxP1&index=26&t=0s
Sidedish as vodka and semechki is optional.

Hehe. Uhka is eaten in every country where there are fish.
https://dividingmytime.typepad.com/my-blog/2011/05/ukha-russias-oldest-soup.html
Catch a fish in a crystal clear lake or river.
Throw it into a kettle of the crystal clear water and boil until the eyes pop out. That’s how you know it’s done.
Consume immediately. And that’s it.

Even in Ukraine they eat Uhka like the Zaporizhian Cossacks and Karl XII:)
https://ukrainefood.info/recipes/soups/38-ukha
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Message 1970679 - Posted: 16 Dec 2018, 15:31:47 UTC
Last modified: 16 Dec 2018, 15:37:33 UTC

Another fantasy from the pseudo-expert Moomin Troll:)
It is a common belief that borsjtj (борщ very hard to pronounce and spell to us non Slavs) traditionally comes from Russia, but borsjtj's origin is usually traced to Ukraine and is very common in Eastern Europe .
Russia. Eat your heart out!
The fact that certain 19th-century Russian and Polish cookbooks, such as Handbook of the Experienced Russian Housewife (1842) by Yekaterina Avdeyeva[110][111] and The Lithuanian Cook (1854) by Wincenta Zawadzka,[112] refer to beetroot-based borscht as "Little Russian borscht"[w] (where "Little Russian" is a term used at the time for ethnic Ukrainians under imperial Russian rule) suggests that this innovation took place in what is now Ukraine,[2] whose soils and climate are particularly well suited to beet cultivation. Ukrainian legends, probably of 19th-century origin, attribute the invention of beetroot borscht either to Zaporozhian Cossacks, serving in the Polish army, on their way to break the siege of Vienna in 1683, or to Don Cossacks, serving in the Russian army, while laying siege to Azov in 1695.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borscht#Origin

Is Herring under a fur coat, known as shuba or seledka pod shuboi (Селёдка под шубой), also Russian?
Of course not:) It's a common dish in the countries surrounding the Baltic Sea.
Here it's called Smörgåstårta.


And to get back to the topic.
Is the Azov Sea Ukrainian or Russian?
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Message 1970680 - Posted: 16 Dec 2018, 15:34:46 UTC - in response to Message 1970644.  

Gary, of course, you can prefer fantasies from the pseudo-expert, because pseudo-information in fantasies corresponds to mentality more, than the uncomfortable truth.

Igor, don't assume. The world is not binary. Because I point out your fallacies does not mean I support another persons fallacies.

Igor doesn't want to hear that many Panamanians speak English because Igor has a box in his mind labeled Panamanian and that box doesn't include English speakers.
Igor doesn't want to hear that many Canadians speak French - it is an official language of Canada - because Igor has a box in his mind labeled Canadian and that box doesn't include French speakers.
Igor also has a box in his mind labeled Russian, and all Russians fit in that box. Just like his box labeled American.

If you are going to use an example, make sure it is correct.
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Message 1970683 - Posted: 16 Dec 2018, 15:57:58 UTC - in response to Message 1970680.  
Last modified: 16 Dec 2018, 16:04:45 UTC

Igor want all Ukrainians to speak Russian.
Blin! After all Ukrainian is considered by Russians as a "peasant" language!
https://www.quora.com/Is-the-Russian-language-and-Ukrainian-language-actually-the-same
Then we have “Surzhyk” to complicate it further...
And some parts of Ukraine have lended much of their vocabular from German, Polish, and Hungarian...

Oh. Russia and Ukraine doesn't share the same alphabet.
Which make me think of Kazakhstan that will change their Cyrillic alphabet to a modified Latin one:)
https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-43126818
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Message 1970698 - Posted: 16 Dec 2018, 18:43:38 UTC - in response to Message 1970680.  
Last modified: 16 Dec 2018, 19:43:18 UTC

Gary, what a fallacies you mean? No my fallacies I see. If you don't understand analogies, if you understand it literally, it's your problem, not my. :-)
Please do not distorted sense of my phrase by attributing a generalizing sense to it. I wrote about two persons. Once again - it was very clear phrase about the two persons, not about "any person", not about all population.
If you didn't understand analogies, I will try to simplify for you.
One person don't speak language of discussed state, other person grew up in the cultural and educational sphere of discussed state and speak that language as native. One person lives by two borders away from discussed state, other person lives in state close to discussed state, has roots and many relatives in discussed state and many times visited discussed state. Who will better know situation in discussed state, history, cuisine, etc?

P.S. BTW, please don't teach me that the 2+2=4, i.e about the Francophones in Canada, etc. I know it more 40 years already.
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Message 1970699 - Posted: 16 Dec 2018, 19:12:41 UTC - in response to Message 1970698.  

Igor. Do you really know the difference between an allegory and an analogy?
You wrote "P.S. An allegory. The person from Panama, which does not speak English, or the WASP from Canada, who of them knows US better?"
That's not an allegory. It's an analogy!
Analogies are meant to been interpreted literally.
Allegories are not meant to been interpreted literally.

Btw. What is "the WASP" from Canada?
I know what a wasp is but the acronym WASP?
W.A.S.P. perhaps... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsoLb-E7oy8
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Message boards : Politics : Ukraine/Crimea


 
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