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Message 1842911 - Posted: 18 Jan 2017, 19:32:45 UTC

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Message 1842925 - Posted: 18 Jan 2017, 21:31:08 UTC - in response to Message 1842911.  
Last modified: 18 Jan 2017, 21:59:58 UTC

I don't get the point.
What I do get is that armed conflicts is bad for all. (almost)

And that armed conflicts are actually decreasing in the world.
We humans now live in a time after the WWI and WWII never been seen in history with so few people suffering from it.

So for nothing. Perhaps not.
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Message 1842935 - Posted: 18 Jan 2017, 22:35:52 UTC - in response to Message 1842925.  

I don't get the point.
What I do get is that armed conflicts is bad for all. (almost)

And that armed conflicts are actually decreasing in the world.
We humans now live in a time after the WWI and WWII never been seen in history with so few people suffering from it.

So for nothing. Perhaps not.


Your opinion on that would depend greatly on where you live. In north-west Europe, maybe so. But central/eastern Europe (Crimea)? Africa? The middle east? Lots of other places? Hardly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflicts

That is 55 wars with active hostilities currently going on, with deaths in 2016 ranging from 4 to 49,742... some of these going on since the end of WWII(1945-1950), one since right after the end of WWI (1922).

The end of War after WWI & WWII?? Bovine excrement!

Go ahead and tell the husbands, wives, sons, daughters, brothers and sisters of the ~10,000 dead in 2016 from the war between the Mexican Govt. and the drug cartels that 'war' is no longer a concern since WWI/WWII.. Seriously, go ahead... You might start another war.
https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE

#Texit

Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016.

Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power.
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Message 1842958 - Posted: 19 Jan 2017, 1:03:58 UTC - in response to Message 1842935.  
Last modified: 19 Jan 2017, 1:12:05 UTC

Your opinion on that would depend greatly on where you live. In north-west Europe, maybe so. But central/eastern Europe (Crimea)? Africa? The middle east? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflicts

It's not my opinion. It's a fact.
That there are many hotspots, like Syria, Iraq and Ukraine and many others, is well known.
Still humankind suffer less from wars then ever.

So the WWI efforts and losses perhaps wasn't for nothing.
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Message 1842965 - Posted: 19 Jan 2017, 1:43:32 UTC - in response to Message 1842925.  

I don't get the point.

The point is this:

Name one soldier, sailor or airman that started a war.

"War is the final political act of failed diplomacy"

What is that quote from the past?

"They gave their todays for our tomorrows"
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Message 1842971 - Posted: 19 Jan 2017, 3:02:16 UTC

And this........
I've been waiting for something to happen
For a week or a month or a year
With the blood in the ink of the headlines
And the sound of the crowd in my ear

You might ask what it takes to remember
When you know that you've seen it before
Where a government lies to a people
And a country is drifting to war

There's a shadow on the faces
Of the men who send the guns
To the wars that are fought in places
Where their business interests run

On the radio talk shows and TV
You hear one thing again and again
How the USA stands for freedom
And we come to the aid of a friend
But who are the ones that we call our friends?
These governments killing their own?
Or the people who finally can't take anymore
And they pick up a gun or a brick or a stone

And there are lives in the balance
There are people under fire
There are children at the cannons
And there is blood on the wire

There's a shadow on the faces
Of the men who fan the flames
Of the wars that are fought in places
Where we can't even say the names

They sell us the president the same way
They sell us our clothes and our cars
They sell us everything from youth to religion
The same time they sell us our wars

I want to know who the men in the shadows are
I want to hear somebody asking them why
They can be counted on to tell us who our enemies are
But they're never the ones to fight or to die

And there are lives in the balance
There are people under fire
There are children at the cannons
And there is blood on the wire

-Jackson Browne


"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
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Message 1843044 - Posted: 19 Jan 2017, 16:18:36 UTC - in response to Message 1842958.  

Your opinion on that would depend greatly on where you live. In north-west Europe, maybe so. But central/eastern Europe (Crimea)? Africa? The middle east? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflicts

It's not my opinion. It's a fact.
That there are many hotspots, like Syria, Iraq and Ukraine and many others, is well known.
Still humankind suffer less from wars then ever.

So the WWI efforts and losses perhaps wasn't for nothing.


Yeah, right... It is opinion. Perhaps the most notable 'positive' thing to come from WWI was a 'ban' on the use of chemical weapons. I said 'ban' because they are still being used.

The most notable 'negative' thing to come from WWI far overshadows the 'positive'. The resolution to WWI (Treaty of Versailles) produced unintended consequences as the winners of WWI sought to punish (over the objections of the USA) the losers economically... The rise of Germany in Europe led to a good chunk of WWII. Also, coming out of WWI and its aftermath are both the rise of Communism and the Middle-eastern frackin felgercarb. Germany's 'deportation' of Lenin back to Russia led to the Communist takeover in Russia (and the formation of the USSR), and Britain's penchant for redrawing maps led to the Middle-eastern mess we have today.

The end of WWII led to the 'cold war' between the 'west' and the USSR which led to the further destabilization and polarization of the entire World. Most of the 'current' list of wars I linked to in my last post either started right after WWII or started in areas destabilized by the Cold War.

And in WWI, it did not start because diplomacy 'failed'... It started because diplomacy succeeded. All of those mutual-defense alliances... When that Serbian separatist assassinated the heir to the throne of the Austrian empire, all of those alliances kicked in and the result? Virtually instant World War.

So, no... WWI did not really *solve* any problems... but it did CAUSE a heck of a lot of them. And over 100 years later, we are STILL trying to solve all of them, with VERY little success.
https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE

#Texit

Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016.

Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power.
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Message 1843117 - Posted: 20 Jan 2017, 0:29:43 UTC - in response to Message 1843044.  

[Yeah, right... It is opinion.

I have to quote myself.
Still humankind suffer less from wars then ever.
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Message 1843122 - Posted: 20 Jan 2017, 0:55:44 UTC

Jann, here is some food for thought......

Wars around the world have killed three times more people over the past half-century than previously estimated, a new study suggests.

"War kills more people than we had previously thought," said lead researcher Ziad Obermeyer, a research scientist at Brigham & Women's Hospital, in Boston.

The researchers estimate that 5.4 million people died from 1955 to 2002 as a result of wars in 13 countries. These deaths range from 7,000 in the Democratic Republic of Congo to 3.8 million in Vietnam.

Data from this new study also suggests that 378,000 people worldwide died a violent death in war each year between 1985 and 1994, compared with 137,000 estimated at the time.


http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Healthday/story?id=5207645&page=1

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
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Message 1843176 - Posted: 20 Jan 2017, 5:44:29 UTC - in response to Message 1843117.  

[Yeah, right... It is opinion.

I have to quote myself.
Still humankind suffer less from wars then ever.


Oh? Tell that to the family of these kids:

https://twitter.com/gerrysimpsonhrw/status/692330392557371392

Im not img tagging these photos... Warning, some might find them disturbing.... Click at your own risk.

You, and many others, are suffering from a cultural bias towards considering the collective instead of the individual. The surviving families of the dead and maimed might dispute your interpretation.
https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE

#Texit

Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016.

Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power.
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Message 1843220 - Posted: 20 Jan 2017, 15:10:47 UTC - in response to Message 1843176.  
Last modified: 20 Jan 2017, 15:17:18 UTC

[Yeah, right... It is opinion.

I have to quote myself.
Still humankind suffer less from wars then ever.

Oh? Tell that to the family of these kids:
https://twitter.com/gerrysimpsonhrw/status/692330392557371392
Im not img tagging these photos... Warning, some might find them disturbing.... Click at your own risk.
You, and many others, are suffering from a cultural bias towards considering the collective instead of the individual. The surviving families of the dead and maimed might dispute your interpretation.

I'm right and you're wrong:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYnpJGaMiXo

That wars still exist and that a lot humans suffer even today is a fact.
Still humankind suffer less from wars then ever.
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Message 1843224 - Posted: 20 Jan 2017, 15:29:30 UTC

What about all the pain/suffering/death that's caused by things not called "war"...

Terrorism, imperialism, genocide, hostile takeovers, hunger, poverty, lack of health care, interference in other's governments leading to economic collapse (the US likes to do this), etc etc etc.
#resist
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Message 1843225 - Posted: 20 Jan 2017, 15:38:05 UTC - in response to Message 1843220.  

[Yeah, right... It is opinion.

I have to quote myself.
Still humankind suffer less from wars then ever.

Oh? Tell that to the family of these kids:
https://twitter.com/gerrysimpsonhrw/status/692330392557371392
Im not img tagging these photos... Warning, some might find them disturbing.... Click at your own risk.
You, and many others, are suffering from a cultural bias towards considering the collective instead of the individual. The surviving families of the dead and maimed might dispute your interpretation.

I'm right and you're wrong:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYnpJGaMiXo


Heh... The uploader has not made that video available in my country.

But, 'don't use the news media to understand the world'... Not having seen that video, I would tend to agree with the title's general sentiment. I don't exclusively use the news media to understand the world. It is a component, sure, but I have been to much of it, and have studied history extensively.

And you are not right.

There is great suffering in the world today, due to war. And the fact that, per capita, fewer people in total might be getting killed in wars today is without meaning. There is a lot more forms of suffering due to war than just death (or even maiming).

The financial and human cost of war in the world today is staggering. That hasn't changed much in the last few centuries or so, nor will it in the foreseeable future. Humanity is much too 'us vs. them' oriented with way too many tendencies towards violence for it to be otherwise.
https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE

#Texit

Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016.

Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power.
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Message 1843230 - Posted: 20 Jan 2017, 15:56:28 UTC - in response to Message 1843224.  

What about all the pain/suffering/death that's caused by things not called "war"...
Terrorism, imperialism, genocide, hostile takeovers, hunger, poverty, lack of health care, interference in other's governments leading to economic collapse (the US likes to do this), etc etc etc.

Terrorism and imperialism are already included in the term "war".
But as you say there are many more issues to adress.
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Message 1843243 - Posted: 20 Jan 2017, 17:10:39 UTC - in response to Message 1843224.  

What about all the pain/suffering/death that's caused by things not called "war"...

Terrorism, imperialism, genocide, hostile takeovers, hunger, poverty, lack of health care, interference in other's governments leading to economic collapse (the US likes to do this), etc etc etc.
If you believe the US is so evil..................move. Goodbye. So Long. Don't let the door hit you in the ass.

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
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Message 1843247 - Posted: 20 Jan 2017, 17:24:00 UTC - in response to Message 1843243.  
Last modified: 20 Jan 2017, 17:31:03 UTC

What about all the pain/suffering/death that's caused by things not called "war"...

Terrorism, imperialism, genocide, hostile takeovers, hunger, poverty, lack of health care, interference in other's governments leading to economic collapse (the US likes to do this), etc etc etc.
If you believe the US is so evil..................move. Goodbye. So Long. Don't let the door hit you in the ass.


That's the most un-American statement I've heard in quite some time. To hold your government accountable is to be a patriot. And to disregard your government's mistakes is to be ignorant.

"evil" was your word. And my statement applied to the world as a whole..



So I'll continue to be critical, informed, and patriotic. And I'll continue to do that right here in the US, that is unless this isn't a free country anymore.
#resist
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Message 1843259 - Posted: 20 Jan 2017, 18:36:15 UTC - in response to Message 1843225.  
Last modified: 20 Jan 2017, 18:54:24 UTC

I'm right and you're wrong:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYnpJGaMiXo

Heh... The uploader has not made that video available in my country.
But, 'don't use the news media to understand the world'... Not having seen that video, I would tend to agree with the title's general sentiment. I don't exclusively use the news media to understand the world. It is a component, sure, but I have been to much of it, and have studied history extensively.
Strange...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31c444CZPT4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aMkx_nogcQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4VZlD2lN8k
You can choose to only show my shoe, which are very ugly.
But that is only a part of me.
If you choose to only show my face that is another part of me.
Anyway How not to be ignorant about the world:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm5xF-UYgdg
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Message 1843267 - Posted: 20 Jan 2017, 19:21:17 UTC - in response to Message 1843122.  

Jann, here is some food for thought......
Wars around the world have killed three times more people over the past half-century than previously estimated, a new study suggests.

"War kills more people than we had previously thought," said lead researcher Ziad Obermeyer, a research scientist at Brigham & Women's Hospital, in Boston.

The researchers estimate that 5.4 million people died from 1955 to 2002 as a result of wars in 13 countries. These deaths range from 7,000 in the Democratic Republic of Congo to 3.8 million in Vietnam.

Data from this new study also suggests that 378,000 people worldwide died a violent death in war each year between 1985 and 1994, compared with 137,000 estimated at the time.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Healthday/story?id=5207645&page=1

Counting suffering is very difficult.
Contemporary media reports of deaths are not to be fully trusted, Obermeyer addeds. "The reason we should be skeptical of media reports is that they are subject to political pressures and cannot always be verified," he said. "These numbers can be pushed up or down, depending upon what kind of political pressure is being exerted."
Richard Garfield, a professor of clinical international nursing at Columbia University in New York City and the author of an accompanying editorial in the journal, said that even this method underestimates the number of people killed in wars.
"Even though the data on war deaths is not very good, it is much better . . . in poor developing countries -- where virtually all wars now are -- than it was 10 or 20 years ago," Garfield said.
However, all deaths because of war are not being counted, Garfield said, since even Obermeyer's team left out the more indirect deaths from starvation, infectious disease and other illnesses, and forms of injury not directly linked to armed combat.
"We are counting more of the violent deaths, but we only irregularly address indirect deaths, which may be far greater than combatant deaths," he added.

I know that many people died of the Spanish flu during the WWI.
Three to five percent of the world's population died.
Even in my country that was not even engaged in the war.
Are flu somehow connected to wars/misery?
I think it is.
We will see many cases of diseases in Eastern Ukraine if not respecting the Minsk agreement by both parts.
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Message 1843273 - Posted: 20 Jan 2017, 19:39:52 UTC

And so we see the TRUE COLORS of those who espouse 'criticism of our Government' on the streets of our Capitol.

Ex, why don't you join them? Throw a few rocks, break some windows, destroy property that doesn't belong to you. No, you will call the Police, the National Guard thugs for defending the peaceful transition.

There are 68 congress people (neither of which words deserve capitalization in this context} who have played into the hands of Putin and others who wish to divide America further. They will be replaced in time. The idiot Dimocrats are sewing the seeds of their own demise. I gleefully watch it happen. Dr King would be ashamed of John Lewis.

Go ahead, riot, we have a couple of places for those who do, Super Max and Guantanamo.

The People have spoken and they will continue to speak and no longer be ignored.

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
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