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Message 1813571 - Posted: 29 Aug 2016, 20:03:58 UTC

Monday August 29 2016, 1:02 PM

Hi,
Been there, done it, and have a years worth of data. If anyone wants info, just ask?


Stay here on Earth. It's the only planet with DARK CHOCOLATE !!
River Song (aka Linda Latte on planet Earth)
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Message 1813575 - Posted: 29 Aug 2016, 20:16:00 UTC

Happy to help too.
I managed environmental affairs for construction of the world's larges PV Plant.
Topaz Solar Farms.


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Message 1813579 - Posted: 29 Aug 2016, 20:24:15 UTC

We are happy solar folks too. We got a federal and state tax credit, our power bill is minimal, Eric and I managed to find a balance between trimming my beautiful trees and maximum solar panel exposure and the panels are not nearly as ugly and noticeable as I thought that they would be. We used a local company and we ended up being very pleased with the whole process.
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Message 1813583 - Posted: 29 Aug 2016, 20:28:07 UTC

I'm redlined for solar, cause of where I live and what I live in, I own a mobile home, I pay taxes on the mobile home too, and rent the land, so no solar.
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Message 1813602 - Posted: 29 Aug 2016, 21:20:30 UTC - in response to Message 1813579.  

Hi,

Glad to hear you are happy 'solar folks!' :) Before we went solar our monthly electric bill was $2184. With 14 panels installed our bill for our first full year with solar dropped to $378.

We did not pay cash for our install but financed 70% of the cost @ 3.99% for 12 years. The remaining 30% was paid for by the refund we got from the IRS for going solar. Our monthly payment on our solar loan for our first year totaled $1466. Since we SAVED $1806. by using sun power, the savings covered the monthly payment AND gave us a surplus of $340. back! :) Rather then paying our utility compant the $1466. we are paying ourselves. So, in effect. our solar system is FREE. Yay!

We take data daily at sunset so we know exactly how much we draw FROM "the grid" and how much we pump INTO it. If you're interested in seeing a plot of our data, let me know?

The only question we have that is yet to be resolved is how oftne do you have to have the panels cleaned? Naturally, this depends on exactly where you live and how dirty the panels get. Luckily we are in a clean coastal area 2 miles from the ocean. Some may live in a more commercial area and have to deal with dactory smoke, or some such. The only way we can see to accurately determine how often to clean our panels is by comparing the kWh generated month to month on a daily basis for year 1 to the same data for year 2. we are in process of compiling THAT data.

Does anyone "out there" have data on the expected loss of efficiency in kWh generated in various areas?

Thank you!
River Song (aka Linda Latte on planet Earth)
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Message 1813605 - Posted: 29 Aug 2016, 21:26:41 UTC - in response to Message 1813575.  

Monday August 29 2016, 2:21 PM

Hi,
Thank you for posting on solar! As you are "in it" commercially, what kind of data, if any, do you have on the month to month loass of efficiency in kWh generation caused by the environmment? Wind, rain, 'bird droppings,' factory effluent, and all that will slowly coat the panels over time and cut down the power generated.

We only have 14 rooftop panels on a 2-story coastal house, and have been quoted about $230. to clean them. Do you have info on businesses who clean solar panels and their fee?

Thank you!

Every day, thousands of INNOCENT plants are killed by vegetarians. Help END the violence. Eat BACON !!
River Song (aka Linda Latte on planet Earth)
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Message 1813607 - Posted: 29 Aug 2016, 21:29:49 UTC

Topaz has 9 million panels. We agreed to a water saving condition not to clean them. Out testing showed a power loss of only 4-5% at most anyway. Each array has a soiling station that keeps track of soil level and power degradation. Except for bird dropping we found that even the lightest of rains kept the panels clean. As for bird droppings we have a robot that rides the rows of panels and will take care of that if it's an issue.
We do have some installations in India where the amount of dust is significant and we were experiencing a 40-45% loss. You need to fact in the cost to clean. In India, with the low labor cost we saw a cost benefit when we had a 12% or greater loss.
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Message 1813609 - Posted: 29 Aug 2016, 21:36:07 UTC - in response to Message 1813605.  

Monday August 29 2016, 2:35 PM

Here is a plot of the performance of our 14 panel rooftop solar system for 1 full year of operation. We are in a California coastal zone 2 miles from the ocean.




I can EXPLAIN it to you but I can't UNDERSTAND it for you. <giggles>
River Song (aka Linda Latte on planet Earth)
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Message 1813611 - Posted: 29 Aug 2016, 21:47:43 UTC - in response to Message 1813607.  

Carlos,

Very GOOD information - VERY good indeed! Thank you for sharing !!

Tentatively it looks like we MAY be in the 4 to 5% range also, like you. Our problem is that California is in the midst of a 5 year drought so we have not benefited at all by having rain to help keep our panels clean. This is likely WHY we are seeing the 4 to 5% right now. Given our coastal location, and normal rain fall we expected perhaps a 2% reduction in efficiency.

Curiously enough, and this is a PUZZLE, while our efficiency has dropped 4 to 5% the total power generated in the first month of year 2 versus year 1 has gone UP by 2.52% !! This makes little sense? Global Warming? Hahah. One thing tho MAY account for it: The peak power generated by our panels is only reported to us, over the net, by Enlighten, every 15 minutes during the day and not continuously, minute by minute so this may be the cause? Only time and data from future months will tell.


===========================

Topaz has 9 million panels. We agreed to a water saving condition not to clean them. Out testing showed a power loss of only 4-5% at most anyway. Each array has a soiling station that keeps track of soil level and power degradation. Except for bird dropping we found that even the lightest of rains kept the panels clean. As for bird droppings we have a robot that rides the rows of panels and will take care of that if it's an issue.
We do have some installations in India where the amount of dust is significant and we were experiencing a 40-45% loss. You need to fact in the cost to clean. In India, with the low labor cost we saw a cost benefit when we had a 12% or greater loss.

River Song (aka Linda Latte on planet Earth)
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Message 1813630 - Posted: 29 Aug 2016, 23:18:30 UTC - in response to Message 1813602.  

Before we went solar our monthly electric bill was $2184


Wow! That's a lot. We only average around $100 a month in a 1,200 sq. ft. house plus a full basement of the same size. I like the idea of solar but waiting 10 - 15 years to see my costs recouped doesn't make sense to me since new(and cheaper) technologies could be developed during that time, plus from a purely economical standpoint, I'd be better off investing my money in something that pays dividends a lot faster. On the other hand, from a purely healthy planet perspective, I definitely think solar power is a great way to contribute to the good for us all.
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Message 1813635 - Posted: 29 Aug 2016, 23:31:14 UTC

My last electric bill was $120.98, this was for 810sqft.

The tax breaks don't work for Me, since I'm not allowed to file for such things
by the SSA, My income is not considered taxable by the SSA and by the IRS.
Savoir-Faire is everywhere!
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Message 1813659 - Posted: 30 Aug 2016, 1:09:51 UTC - in response to Message 1813630.  

Before we went solar our monthly electric bill was $2184


Wow! That's a lot. We only average around $100 a month in a 1,200 sq. ft. house plus a full basement of the same size. I like the idea of solar but waiting 10 - 15 years to see my costs recouped doesn't make sense to me since new(and cheaper) technologies could be developed during that time, plus from a purely economical standpoint, I'd be better off investing my money in something that pays dividends a lot faster. On the other hand, from a purely healthy planet perspective, I definitely think solar power is a great way to contribute to the good for us all.


The "Before we went solar our monthly electric bill was $2184" is a mistake. The $2184. was our bill for a whole YEAR w/o solar as opposed to $378. for a whole year WITH it.

Our 2 story is about 1950 sq. feet and no garage; they are VERY rare in So. CA. Our system cost $19,500 with 30% covered by a tax refund. As we see it, it's a "no brainer" to buy solar, if you're able. You either pay a big bill monthly to your power company OR you pay down the solar loan with monthly payments. In our case the amount we save each month makes the payments and gives us a surplus. :) It's kinda like the difference between "rent receipts" and a steadily decreasing mortgage when you buy.

Science has found that laughing for 2 minutes is better than 20 minutes of jogging. So now I'm sitting on a bench in the park, laughing at joggers. :)
River Song (aka Linda Latte on planet Earth)
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Message 1813660 - Posted: 30 Aug 2016, 1:13:10 UTC - in response to Message 1813635.  

My last electric bill was $120.98, this was for 810sqft.

The tax breaks don't work for Me, since I'm not allowed to file for such things
by the SSA, My income is not considered taxable by the SSA and by the IRS.


It is sad you can't do what we're doing; sorry to hear that. :(

With solar, as you can see from the graph I posted, the HIGHEST monthly bill for our 1950 sq. foot with A/C home was $119 and typically, for most of the year, was $10 to $30. :)

Have you thought of moving? :)
River Song (aka Linda Latte on planet Earth)
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Message 1813664 - Posted: 30 Aug 2016, 1:30:43 UTC - in response to Message 1813660.  

My last electric bill was $120.98, this was for 810sqft.

The tax breaks don't work for Me, since I'm not allowed to file for such things
by the SSA, My income is not considered taxable by the SSA and by the IRS.


It is sad you can't do what we're doing; sorry to hear that. :(

With solar, as you can see from the graph I posted, the HIGHEST monthly bill for our 1950 sq. foot with A/C home was $119 and typically, for most of the year, was $10 to $30. :)

Have you thought of moving? :)

Yes, it's probably My only option, I know how much the cost would be to buy some land, do tear down, move this place, do setup, but I can't find any financing to do this with, that would need $25,000 total.

Moving is a possibility, but that depends on what I can afford, by myself that would be $60,000 max, with 2 other people that I know who could help, at most $125,000.00, and yes this would be in either Hesperia Ca, Victorville CA, or in Adelanto CA, anywhere else is either too far away or too expensive to do, moving costs just for Me could be $1144 to $1500, utility deposits could be $300 total, a home inspection might be $200, plus there is the 0.5% down payment for GSFA backed mortgage, I'd have to finance or get the seller to pay for the closing costs, since that could be $2,985(3% of the homes cost) on a $99,500 3 bedroom, 2 bathroom mobile home that has a garage, is on a permanent foundation, and is on its own land(no lot rental).

But this will take a bit, as My car is in need of Dire repairs...
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Message 1813665 - Posted: 30 Aug 2016, 1:40:15 UTC - in response to Message 1813659.  

Before we went solar our monthly electric bill was $2184


Wow! That's a lot. We only average around $100 a month in a 1,200 sq. ft. house plus a full basement of the same size. I like the idea of solar but waiting 10 - 15 years to see my costs recouped doesn't make sense to me since new(and cheaper) technologies could be developed during that time, plus from a purely economical standpoint, I'd be better off investing my money in something that pays dividends a lot faster. On the other hand, from a purely healthy planet perspective, I definitely think solar power is a great way to contribute to the good for us all.


The "Before we went solar our monthly electric bill was $2184" is a mistake. The $2184. was our bill for a whole YEAR w/o solar as opposed to $378. for a whole year WITH it.

Our 2 story is about 1950 sq. feet and no garage; they are VERY rare in So. CA. Our system cost $19,500 with 30% covered by a tax refund. As we see it, it's a "no brainer" to buy solar, if you're able. You either pay a big bill monthly to your power company OR you pay down the solar loan with monthly payments. In our case the amount we save each month makes the payments and gives us a surplus. :) It's kinda like the difference between "rent receipts" and a steadily decreasing mortgage when you buy.


I guess it really comes down to how the money is invested. I think I could benefit more financially in the long run from that $19,500 cash with a wise money advisor. But again, I think the concept of solar power is a win-win for everyone when the technology improves so most people can look at it and say, yeah, that makes sense.
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Message 1813670 - Posted: 30 Aug 2016, 2:05:29 UTC

Buying into solar for me is kind of like buying a Prius. The aim is good, but the math just doesn't work out.

I want solar power to progress and be something everyone can use.
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Message 1813704 - Posted: 30 Aug 2016, 4:25:04 UTC - in response to Message 1813670.  

Buying into solar for me is kind of like buying a Prius. The aim is good, but the math just doesn't work out.

I want solar power to progress and be something everyone can use.


Eric and I both drive a Prius. We call them "P-force One" and "P-force Two". Make of that what you will...
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Message 1813706 - Posted: 30 Aug 2016, 4:33:11 UTC - in response to Message 1813611.  

Check the total number of cloudy days. Depending on where on the coast you are you could have had more cloudy days the first year. June gloom can account for that.

Carlos,

Very GOOD information - VERY good indeed! Thank you for sharing !!

Tentatively it looks like we MAY be in the 4 to 5% range also, like you. Our problem is that California is in the midst of a 5 year drought so we have not benefited at all by having rain to help keep our panels clean. This is likely WHY we are seeing the 4 to 5% right now. Given our coastal location, and normal rain fall we expected perhaps a 2% reduction in efficiency.

Curiously enough, and this is a PUZZLE, while our efficiency has dropped 4 to 5% the total power generated in the first month of year 2 versus year 1 has gone UP by 2.52% !! This makes little sense? Global Warming? Hahah. One thing tho MAY account for it: The peak power generated by our panels is only reported to us, over the net, by Enlighten, every 15 minutes during the day and not continuously, minute by minute so this may be the cause? Only time and data from future months will tell.


===========================

Topaz has 9 million panels. We agreed to a water saving condition not to clean them. Out testing showed a power loss of only 4-5% at most anyway. Each array has a soiling station that keeps track of soil level and power degradation. Except for bird dropping we found that even the lightest of rains kept the panels clean. As for bird droppings we have a robot that rides the rows of panels and will take care of that if it's an issue.
We do have some installations in India where the amount of dust is significant and we were experiencing a 40-45% loss. You need to fact in the cost to clean. In India, with the low labor cost we saw a cost benefit when we had a 12% or greater loss.

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Message 1813712 - Posted: 30 Aug 2016, 5:19:23 UTC

I've had a couple of solar panels on my bat for the last six months. Before they wee installed I was using between £0.50 and £1.00 of electricity a week keeping the fridge running and computer/phone chargers fed. Since installing the panels I've used less than £1.00, this wold probably be less if I didn't run the micorwave for a few minutes a day, and that drags the inverter to life, which kicks the battery charger in.
I'm now considering some panels at home to hit my domestic bill. I will probably look at a battery supported system with an inverter charger similar to the one on the boat.
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Message 1813727 - Posted: 30 Aug 2016, 6:19:42 UTC - in response to Message 1813704.  
Last modified: 30 Aug 2016, 6:20:37 UTC

Buying into solar for me is kind of like buying a Prius. The aim is good, but the math just doesn't work out.

I want solar power to progress and be something everyone can use.


Eric and I both drive a Prius. We call them "P-force One" and "P-force Two". Make of that what you will...

My friend Mike and I would never fit in a Prius, I'm 6'1" tall, Mike is 6'8" tall, He barely fits, both of us have the seats all the way back, My legs can touch the firewall without stretching, Mike can't fit His legs under the dash, He usually rides with His legs folded, Ford now only makes one coupe, yep the Mustang, even if it's painted Green, it's no Prius, it's only a matter of time before I tear the seat from the mounting rails, a charlie horse in My legs is what tore the seats last time, yes I have some powerful leg muscles, the seats are made of pot metal, yes the same metal that one cooks with, I looked for a racing seat for My car, I didn't find any, hopefully I'll have enough income or something one day so that I can get a newer car with better seats.
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