Any comments regarding last night's 'Debate'.

My wife and I: Just a confirmation regarding these two Bozo's.

There is a thread for that ... http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=80409

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Any comments regarding last night's 'Debate'.

My wife and I: Just a confirmation regarding these two Bozo's.

---

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
--- George Santayana

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
--- Lord Acton

Regarding absentee ballots, this is the second year my mother's done it that way due to her health and mobility issues, and it just makes it easier on us. My question is, are there any states that provide proof of your absentee ballot being counted? At least when you do it in person, you have the reassurance of it sliding into the machine.

Don't know statewide, but Los Angeles County does via the internet.

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A global poll conducted by a network of leading pollsters reveals that the American Presidential Election is arousing widespread engagement across the world, where a vast majority is keen to tell pollsters their favourite between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. The poll carried out among 45 countries, covering nearly 75% of world population shows that Hillary Clinton is ahead of Donald Trump in all but one country, Russia.

http://www.gallup-international.bg/en/Publications/2016/298-WIN-Gallup-International%E2%80%99s-Global-Poll-on-the-American-Election
Trumpist = Putinist.

LOL:)

Regarding absentee ballots, this is the second year my mother's done it that way due to her health and mobility issues, and it just makes it easier on us. My question is, are there any states that provide proof of your absentee ballot being counted? At least when you do it in person, you have the reassurance of it sliding into the machine.

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The mind is a weird and mysterious place

I wonder who Bill Clinton's son, Danney Williams, is voting for.

Has there been a DNA test?

---

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
--- George Santayana

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
--- Lord Acton

But there have been very few prosecutions for voter fraud, so it isn't the way and never has been.

WinterKnight...

Incorrect understanding of us. The 'Prosecutors', in the USA, usually belong to the same Party. As the Political Criminals.

Not true, usually it is members of the party, in control at that time accusing the the other party who are trying to depose them.

Therefore it is the officials from the same party as the accusers that are not prosecuting. Therefore it either didn't happen, or it was as was said earlier based on out of date information.

Americans do understand the above.

You think Americans understand as you do. I would dispute that and say most Americans would take it with a pinch of salt and say it is not worth bothering with.

Just our peculiar Political and Social Culture.

The Political Criminal's of one Party. Cannot really bring Serious Charges against the Political Criminals of the other Party.

If they did. They would also go to jail when Out of Office. That is what keeps most out of jail. A 'Quid pro quo' of corruption, so to speak.

A few Charges against, usually against Minor Officials are allowed. In an attempt by one Criminal Group, to show the people how wonderful they are in protecting the people's interests.

It's really just a lot of Horse Dung.

Just the way it is.

---

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
--- George Santayana

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
--- Lord Acton

But there have been very few prosecutions for voter fraud, so it isn't the way and never has been.

WinterKnight...

Incorrect understanding of us. The 'Prosecutors', in the USA, usually belong to the same Party. As the Political Criminals.

Not true, usually it is members of the party, in control at that time accusing the the other party who are trying to depose them.

Therefore it is the officials from the same party as the accusers that are not prosecuting. Therefore it either didn't happen, or it was as was said earlier based on out of date information.

Americans do understand the above.

You think Americans understand as you do. I would dispute that and say most Americans would take it with a pinch of salt and say it is not worth bothering with.

Just our peculiar Political and Social Culture.

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But there have been very few prosecutions for voter fraud, so it isn't the way and never has been.

WinterKnight...

Incorrect understanding of us. The 'Prosecutors', in the USA, usually belong to the same Party. As the Political Criminals.

Americans do understand the above.

Just our peculiar Political and Social Culture.

---

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
--- George Santayana

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
--- Lord Acton

http://therightscoop.com/watch-new-bombshell-video-just-released-james-okeefe-mass-voter-fraud/

Watch the video.

Why would I want to watch a video made by a criminal who deliberately manipulates footage.

Truth is dangerous, especially when it challenges those in power...

Keep your head in the sand, if you wish... But that does not change the truth of things.

MK...

WinterKnight has no true understanding of the reality of our American Political Process and Culture.

WinterKnight...

There is an old American political saying. Which we Americans understand, but is not understood by Non Americans.

"Vote early, and often".

It is difficult to those outside of another Culture. To understand its nuances.

Please explain in words of one syllable, so that a numbskull like me can understand, what I don't understand about voter fraud.

You are the one that frequently gets challenged about your answers, usually about not answering the question asked.

Ok WinterKnight..., one syllable for your understanding.

Vote Fraud, in U S A, by both D & R is: Their way.

In U S A: Has been, is, will be.

:) :) :)

But there have been very few prosecutions for voter fraud, so it isn't the way and never has been.

There are though plenty of examples where the voter registration data is out of snyc with the population data. But that is not voter fraud, it is on old data incompetence by State/County officials but some will be recent changes that just haven't made it through the system yet.

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http://therightscoop.com/watch-new-bombshell-video-just-released-james-okeefe-mass-voter-fraud/

Watch the video.

Why would I want to watch a video made by a criminal who deliberately manipulates footage.

Truth is dangerous, especially when it challenges those in power...

Keep your head in the sand, if you wish... But that does not change the truth of things.

MK...

WinterKnight has no true understanding of the reality of our American Political Process and Culture.

WinterKnight...

There is an old American political saying. Which we Americans understand, but is not understood by Non Americans.

"Vote early, and often".

It is difficult to those outside of another Culture. To understand its nuances.

Please explain in words of one syllable, so that a numbskull like me can understand, what I don't understand about voter fraud.

You are the one that frequently gets challenged about your answers, usually about not answering the question asked.

Ok WinterKnight..., one syllable for your understanding.

Vote Fraud, in U S A, by both D & R is: Their way.

In U S A: Has been, is, will be.

:) :) :)

---

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
--- George Santayana

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
--- Lord Acton

Voter ID is not the answer, while it might reduce the scope for some voter fraud, it does not eliminate it, and the cost is reduced participation.

might reduce... does not eliminate... cost... all conjecture.

It *will* reduce voter fraud. Less dead people will vote. Less voting in multiple districts. Less illegal aliens.

All will reduce the numbers voting at the polls.

And if someone who has to show an id card to: buy alcohol, cigarettes, open a bank account, apply for food stamps, welfare, Medicaid/Social Security, unemployment or job, buy/rent a house, apply for a mortgage, buy/rent a car, get on an airplane, get married, purchase a gun, adopt a pet, rent a hotel room, apply for a fishing license, buy a cell phone, visit a casino, pick up a prescription, hold a rally or protest, buy an "M" rated video game, purchase nail polish and some medicines at CVS...

thinks it's too much of a burden to show it at a poll, then they don't need to be voting anyway.

The evidence from a history of disenfranchising specific groups is conjecture? Oh it doesn't matter, these groups "don't need to be voting".

On the voting in multiple districts issue, this will likely not be solved by state issued voter IDs, for that you need systems like ERIC. An added benefit of ERIC is that it helps identify those eligible to vote but not registered, of which there are far more than there are registered though deceased or registered in more than one state; 51 million vs 1.8 million + 2.75 million (source).

If the issue is with incorrect voter registration data, doesn't it make sense to find ways to address that directly, rather than set up additional hurdles for those entitled to participate?

---

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

http://therightscoop.com/watch-new-bombshell-video-just-released-james-okeefe-mass-voter-fraud/

Watch the video.

Why would I want to watch a video made by a criminal who deliberately manipulates footage.

Truth is dangerous, especially when it challenges those in power...

Keep your head in the sand, if you wish... But that does not change the truth of things.

MK...

WinterKnight has no true understanding of the reality of our American Political Process and Culture.

WinterKnight...

There is an old American political saying. Which we Americans understand, but is not understood by Non Americans.

"Vote early, and often".

It is difficult to those outside of another Culture. To understand its nuances.

Please explain in words of one syllable, so that a numbskull like me can understand, what I don't understand about voter fraud.

You are the one that frequently gets challenged about your answers, usually about not answering the question asked.

---

http://therightscoop.com/watch-new-bombshell-video-just-released-james-okeefe-mass-voter-fraud/

Watch the video.

Why would I want to watch a video made by a criminal who deliberately manipulates footage.

Truth is dangerous, especially when it challenges those in power...

Keep your head in the sand, if you wish... But that does not change the truth of things.

The truth of things? Well, while it's true that two of those featured in O'Keefe's latest "investigation" have now lost their jobs, it's unclear whether both deserved this outcome. Having watched the second video (as linked), it's unclear to me that Creamer wanted to be involved in any way with voter fraud. Whether Foval has done the things he's shown as claiming to have done (and the Washington Post article provides some reasons to doubt it), he has no place in any campaign organization.

O'Keefe has a "style" that involves editing his material to produce the most inflammatory message possible. If the raw video ever becomes available, then it may show that this is more of the same.

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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

One case is one too many.

Then no one can vote. To err is human.

The only other solution is everyone must vote, and if you don't vote you get a visit from the police.

Which communist absolute do you wish to choose?


Your report says about most of those ten, "possible."

I also saw the report, 13 proved cases out of 1 billion ballots cast. That was looking at cases where a person claimed to be someone else, something that an ID check would find.

I also note one of your cases the people showed ID with their name, but shouldn't have been voting. ID checks don't work and you provided the proof!

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Of course Democrats ignore it, because it happens so rarely. If it does happen how come there have not been thousands of cases discovered by Republican run counties since 2000.

Just have a search to see how many cases there have been since 2000. I found thirteen (13).

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/oct/17/no-voter-fraud-isnt-myth-10-cases-where-its-all-to/

Just the cases listing numbers (about half) add to almost 45,000 cases over the last 10 years.

Yes, well the bias of that report is perhaps clear from the final issue it notes:

10. Voter registration cards sent to illegals in Pennsylvania.

In September, the secretary of state’s office in Pennsylvania mailed about 2.5 million voter registration postcards to people who are not registered voters, but are licensed drivers. Secretary of State Pedro Cortes admitted to the House of Representatives that seven people had reported that they received voter registration cards in error, self-reporting.

State Rep. Daryl Metcalfe, a Butler County Republican who chairs the State Government Committee, said in September testimony that there’s several problem’s with the state’s voter registration system.

“There’s certainly the potential for hundreds, if not thousands, of foreigners here legally and illegally to be on our voter rolls, and a certain percentage who are casting ballots,” Mr. Metchalfe told LifeZette. “We’ve got a lot of integrity issues that need to be addressed.”

Having been a permanent resident prior to becoming a citizen I have some experience of this type of thing, indeed I was sent jury duty notices by the city two or three times while not a citizen. The form included a check box for those not citizens to mark if that was the reason for their ineligibility. Note the article says that registration cards were sent to illegals, while the supporting quote indicates this was a potential outcome.

The following article lists 31 incidents of potential voter fraud between 2000 and 2014 where voter ID may have helped, it also contains details of 13 incidents of potential voter fraud where voter ID would not likely have helped reduce the scope for such fraud.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/08/06/a-comprehensive-investigation-of-voter-impersonation-finds-31-credible-incidents-out-of-one-billion-ballots-cast/

Voter ID is not the answer, while it might reduce the scope for some voter fraud, it does not eliminate it, and the cost is reduced participation. While those posting here in support of voter ID may have the best possible motives, it seems to me that, in implementation of voter ID laws, a significant motivation has been to reduce legitimate participation from specific groups of American society, making voter ID the latest in a series of policies to reduce such participation (poll tax, poll tests, etc). The idea of voter ID might seem reasonable, the practice is not, which may be why the courts have blocked a number of such initiatives, e.g. North Carolina, and Texas. SCOTUS's ruling on the North Carolina law is perhaps instructive on the motivations:

The court found that all five restrictions “disproportionately affected African Americans.” The law’s voter identification provision, for instance, “retained only those types of photo ID disproportionately held by whites and excluded those disproportionately held by African Americans.”

This was so, the court said, even though the state had “failed to identify even a single individual who has ever been charged with committing in-person voter fraud in North Carolina.” But it did find that there is evidence of fraud in absentee voting by mail, a method used disproportionately by white voters. But the Legislature exempted absentee voting from the photo ID requirement.

Which suggests that North Carolina's voter ID law was not aimed at reducing incidents of voter fraud, it was designed to disenfranchise African Americans.

"The record shows that drafters and proponents of SB 14 were aware of the likely disproportionate effect of the law on minorities, and that they nonetheless passed the bill without adopting a number of proposed ameliorative measures that might have lessened this impact," Judge Catharina Haynes wrote for the majority in the ruling.

Although the court found some of the arguments made in previous court cases to be legitimate, "there remains evidence to support a finding that the cloak of ballot integrity could be hiding a more invidious purpose,” Haynes wrote.

(source).
As, it seems, was the Texas law.

---

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

http://therightscoop.com/watch-new-bombshell-video-just-released-james-okeefe-mass-voter-fraud/

Watch the video.

Why would I want to watch a video made by a criminal who deliberately manipulates footage.

Truth is dangerous, especially when it challenges those in power...

Keep your head in the sand, if you wish... But that does not change the truth of things.

MK...

WinterKnight has no true understanding of the reality of our American Political Process and Culture.

WinterKnight...

There is an old American political saying. Which we Americans understand, but is not understood by Non Americans.

"Vote early, and often".

It is difficult to those outside of another Culture. To understand its nuances.

---

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
--- George Santayana

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
--- Lord Acton

http://therightscoop.com/watch-new-bombshell-video-just-released-james-okeefe-mass-voter-fraud/

Watch the video.

Why would I want to watch a video made by a criminal who deliberately manipulates footage.

Truth is dangerous, especially when it challenges those in power...

Keep your head in the sand, if you wish... But that does not change the truth of things.

edit] In all that I forgot what I came for, Can you rig a U.S. presidential election? Experts say it’s basically impossible.

That is just what they WANT you to think...

It is not only possible... but EVERY partisan election in the USA, at ALL levels, is RIGGED, and has been for quite some time (at least a century).

How? BOTH 'major' parties (The Democrats AND The Republicans) have designed the system for getting ON the ballot in the various States to HIGHLY favor those belonging to those two parties... And to also highly favor the 'establishment' candidate in the 'primary'/'caucus' elections. It is a power-sharing arrangement between the D's and R's, and to hell with the nation.

But stealing an election in this country isn’t easy. In fact, experts say it’s nearly impossible given how voting works. And documented instances of voter fraud are actually very rare. Wendy R. Weiser, director of the Democracy Program at the Brennan Center for Justice, said the rate of fraud is smaller than the rate of Americans being struck by lightning.

Chris Ashby, campaign finance and election lawyer at Virginia-based Ashby Law, points out that American elections are held in open, public rooms, such as school gyms, community centers and community centers.

“There are no back rooms, secret doors or hidden hallways,” Ashby wrote recently. The ballots, voting machines and election materials are locked and sealed when they arrive in the voting place, and when they are removed after the election is over, they are locked and sealed again.

In most states, there are “poll observers” in each county who have been chosen and trained by both the Republican and Democratic parties to watch for problems or efforts to disenfranchise voters during the voting process. The poll observers are allowed to watch the poll workers and other election officials, who have also undergone training to run the polling places and help conduct the election.

Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), who is running for reelection, said during a debate this week that Trump should stop saying the election is being rigged. “We have 67 counties in this state, each of which conduct their own elections. I promise you there is not a 67-county conspiracy to rig this election,” he said, pointing out that Republicans control many of the positions that oversee ballots and monitor results. “There is no evidence behind any of this. . . . He should stop saying that.”

In one of the most comprehensive studies on voter fraud, Loyola Law School professor Justin Levitt, who is now the deputy assistant attorney general in the Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division, found only 31 incidents of voter impersonation out of more than a billion ballots cast between 2000 and 2014. “Usually, only a tiny portion of the claimed illegality is substantiated — and most of the remainder is either nothing more than speculation or has been conclusively debunked,” Levitt wrote.

In light of your quotes, you seem to place great faith in the ability of both the 'poll watchers' and the election officials to 'keep the elections honest'...

Well... having BEEN both a 'poll watcher' (1980) and an election official (1982, 1984, and 1986)... I can say to you: "excrement of a male bovine".

You won't (and almost certainly can't) believe how many shenanigans there were/are going on...

The Election process in the USA is TOTALLY corrupt, and EVERY one of those sources that you quoted has a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.

1. held in open, public places... That, of course, excludes the mail-in/absentee ballots. But, even in those 'open' 'public' places, there is no guarantee that the person trying to vote is who they say they are. That is why we need a voter ID law requiring a State-issued picture ID.

2. machines/materials locked & sealed... pull the other one... locked & sealed by WHO? The corrupt officials? Foxes watching the hen-house.

3. poll watchers chosen and trained by both the Republicans & Democrats... Guess what? The election officials at the lower levels are chosen and trained by the Republicans & Democrats... At the higher levels, they are appointed by the State Governments that are under the control of (you guessed it) the Republicans and Democrats.

4. Rubio... all butthurt because he didn't win the nomination, even though he was the anointed 'establishment' candidate.

5. Levitt... what does he do now? D.A.A.G. (Civil rights division)? He works for the Democrat party... Of course, it wouldn't make a difference if he worked for the Republican party. Same schizz, different name, and both stink to high heaven.

Remember... BOTH of the two 'major' parties are corrupt as Hades, and care nothing about the nation... only about their own authoritarian grasp on power, and the status quo is how they maintain it. I wonder if we could somehow get a RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations) prosecution of all of them. Likely not, seeing as how the District Attorneys are elected officials too.

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https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE

#Texit

Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016.

Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power.