I have zero invalids. None. Inconclusives have never been a worry of mine, as long as they turn valid at some point and do not become invalid.

I too have zero invalids. But if you have less inconclusives sitting around waiting for a 3rd or 4th wingman, then you get credit sooner and your RAC goes up faster.

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Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours

A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association)

I have zero invalids. None. Inconclusives have never been a worry of mine, as long as they turn valid at some point and do not become invalid.

I too have zero invalids. But if you have less inconclusives sitting around waiting for a 3rd or 4th wingman, then you get credit sooner and your RAC goes up faster.

When one is in the project long term, that is not an issue.
I don't give a hoot if I get creds today, tomorrow, or months from now.
I have done the work, and as long as I am not seeing a lot of errors or invalid tasks, I know my hardware is performing properly.
If a new user comes online, and wonders why they are not seeing an instant RAC, well, they need to read the forums a bit and they should come to know why.
The data we are looking at has taken eons to reach us, why would one expect the processing of it to happen overnight?

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

There is little point in them being integrated into the Lunatics installer if they become the stock application - Lunatics is for the more optimised and thus faster applicaitons, not for the "run of the mill", which is what 8.22/8.23 appear to be becoming.

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

There is little point in them being integrated into the Lunatics installer if they become the stock application - Lunatics is for the more optimised and thus faster applicaitons, not for the "run of the mill", which is what 8.22/8.23 appear to be becoming.

And that is a good thing, I guess, because it brings the Lunatics bits into the mainstream.
And there is satisfaction, I hope, for the coders knowing that their apps are not just limited to a few who chose to manually deal with it.

Meowcreds.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

There is little point in them being integrated into the Lunatics installer if they become the stock application - Lunatics is for the more optimised and thus faster applicaitons, not for the "run of the mill", which is what 8.22/8.23 appear to be becoming.

That`s not the point.
Mark got it right the main goal is to bring the apps to mainstream.
OTOH those stock apps come without any app args which has to be installed manually and most of the install and forget users never read the read me`s.
Not to forget the cuda versions were indentical with the version of the Lunatics installer for years.

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With each crime and every kindness we birth our future.

There is little point in them being integrated into the Lunatics installer if they become the stock application - Lunatics is for the more optimised and thus faster applicaitons, not for the "run of the mill", which is what 8.22/8.23 appear to be becoming.

But the current 8.22/8.23 app are revisions r3584 and are about 5 revisions further developed than the r3557 app provided in the last Lunatics Beta6 installer. If the Lunatics apps are supposed to be at the forefront of development and most optimized, in this case, the stock apps are the most optimized currently. That should not be the case in my opinion.

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Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours

A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association)

I suspect Richard would be would quite happy if someone else were to release a Lunatics SoG-specific update installer.

People can use the current Beta installers to install SoG (or whatever application they wish) as their selected application.
The SoG-specific update installer would be for those that already have SoG selected as their main application & wish to update to the most recent release without the risk of trashing all their work manually fiddling with the app_info.xml file.

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Grant
Darwin NT

Inconclusives have never been a worry of mine, as long as they turn valid at some point and do not become invalid.

The problem with Inconclusives is the load on the database. The more Inconclusives there are, the larger the database becomes to keep track of all the work that is out there.
The project needs more crunchers to crunch the increasing amount of Greenbank work, yet they already have limits on the amount of work people can cache in order to reduce the strain on the database. The more Inconclusives, the greater the strain. Couple that with more crunchers and you've got a recipe for the whole thing crashing and burning repeatedly on a scale we've previously not seen.

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Grant
Darwin NT

What can I tell ya?
Since launching SOG 3557 on my daily driver, it's RAC has risen from around 15K to 19.5K.

Meow!

. . Just say "Thank you Raistmer!"

Stephen

:)

What can I tell ya?
Since launching SOG 3557 on my daily driver, it's RAC has risen from around 15K to 19.5K.

Meow!

. . Just say "Thank you Raistmer!"

Stephen

:)

Thank you, Raistmer!

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

Inconclusives have never been a worry of mine, as long as they turn valid at some point and do not become invalid.

The problem with Inconclusives is the load on the database. The more Inconclusives there are, the larger the database becomes to keep track of all the work that is out there.
The project needs more crunchers to crunch the increasing amount of Greenbank work, yet they already have limits on the amount of work people can cache in order to reduce the strain on the database. The more Inconclusives, the greater the strain. Couple that with more crunchers and you've got a recipe for the whole thing crashing and burning repeatedly on a scale we've previously not seen.

. . Sadly very true.

. . A veritable Catch 22 scenario, we need more crunchers to do the work but the more crunchers we have the greater the load on an already irritable system. Oh well, we can but try and do our best.

Stephen

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With v0.45 installed, is there a way to download a newer app used on Main, then edit the app_info.xml from v0.45 accordingly?

Inconclusives have never been a worry of mine, as long as they turn valid at some point and do not become invalid.

The problem with Inconclusives is the load on the database. The more Inconclusives there are, the larger the database becomes to keep track of all the work that is out there.
The project needs more crunchers to crunch the increasing amount of Greenbank work, yet they already have limits on the amount of work people can cache in order to reduce the strain on the database. The more Inconclusives, the greater the strain. Couple that with more crunchers and you've got a recipe for the whole thing crashing and burning repeatedly on a scale we've previously not seen.

It would make good sense if the workunit deadlines were cut if the aim is to keep the database small. Average turnaround is currently standing at less than two days, so three sigma being less than a week would give most of the workunits a good chance of being returned in that time. So, if you could cut the deadline to half what it is now and double the cache size - we'd have fewer workunits waiting around for validation from non-returners and healthier caches for the faster machines to stop them running dry and the operation would be all the more snappier... and happier.
I've just clicked through to see my oldest validation pending and it was sent out on the 28th Oct having timed out on my wingman. Actually, that's interesting. How do you get 2512 tasks in progress?

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It would make good sense if the workunit deadlines were cut if the aim is to keep the database small.

True, however the project also wants to make use of the widest possible range of hardware, so the longer deadlines are necessary for the much, much slower crunchers out there.

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Grant
Darwin NT

I suspect Richard would be would quite happy if someone else were to release a Lunatics SoG-specific update installer.

People can use the current Beta installers to install SoG (or whatever application they wish) as their selected application.
The SoG-specific update installer would be for those that already have SoG selected as their main application & wish to update to the most recent release without the risk of trashing all their work manually fiddling with the app_info.xml file.

I can definitely get behind that idea. That is the only thing that needs changing in the current Betas. I just won't touch manually editing app_info anymore. Too many mistakes and over 4 months to finally clear "ghosts" up. Too painful a memory.

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Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours

A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association)

With v0.45 installed, is there a way to download a newer app used on Main, then edit the app_info.xml from v0.45 accordingly?

You certainly can. I believe Ramster posted the files here somewhere.

Just put the new files in your folder, and carefully change the version numbers in your app_info

Too many mistakes and over 4 months to finally clear "ghosts" up. Too painful a memory.

Been there done that. Once bitten, twice shy.
Likewise, i'd rather wait for an installer to do the job than risk making a mess of things (yet again).

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Grant
Darwin NT

It would make good sense if the workunit deadlines were cut if the aim is to keep the database small.

True, however the project also wants to make use of the widest possible range of hardware, so the longer deadlines are necessary for the much, much slower crunchers out there.

I have heard this said in the past and it is a laudable aim, but allowing 6 weeks when 99% are probably being returned inside of 7 days is a substantial commitment towards outreach and could be considered unwarranted, especially if it is impacting the performance of the project.

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Given the amount of work I process every hour, I don't think my stats look too bad.................
Meow.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

With v0.45 installed, is there a way to download a newer app used on Main, then edit the app_info.xml from v0.45 accordingly?

You can either try to figure out the \fanout directory, I think there have been posts on how to do that. Don't know myself. Or look in the SoG app threads for the many links Raistmer has posted of his download directories for all of his beta apps. Then you have to manually edit app_info to get the correct names in and hope to not screw it up and dump all your tasks.

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Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours

A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association)