Open Beta test: SoG for NVidia, Lunatics v0.45 - Beta6 (RC again)

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Profile Brent Norman Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
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Message 1793549 - Posted: 5 Jun 2016, 0:04:58 UTC - in response to Message 1793522.  

Anybody got an incompatibility wizard I can use to detect a 32-bit operating system from a 32-bit application (the installer itself), to say "Hi. I'm a 64-bit application really"?


I'm glad we have the experts around here to identify the error code ID10T :)

Thanks for looking into it everyone.
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Message 1793551 - Posted: 5 Jun 2016, 0:11:12 UTC

There are a few things mixed up here.
Strong opinions about what guppi runs well on or not etc.

Maybe some facts should be collected first, instead of blaming one thing or the other or demanding one thing or the other.
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Message 1793553 - Posted: 5 Jun 2016, 0:12:40 UTC - in response to Message 1793548.  


I run Lunatics 0.44...

I tried 0.45, opencl and Me aren't compatible, since most of opencl seems to be cpu work, I opencl you'd think would work on the gpu like cuda does.


. . While I share your allergy to Guppis, unless you are running a very very old graphics card it should support OpenCL language. I am probably not the first to respond to this but most Nvidia cards less than 5 years old support OpenCL 1.2, and the Intel integrated GPUs support OpenCL 2.0 (at least my HD530 does).

The PNY LC GTX 580 supports OpenCL 1.1, runs like a slightly run away freight train, yet very cool in temps.


. . :)
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Message 1793555 - Posted: 5 Jun 2016, 0:18:53 UTC - in response to Message 1793542.  

Fine then more people will leave, vlars it was agreed would not be on the gpu again We were told, promised really, sounds like that was an empty(hollow) promise...

That was MB data & that is still the case. There are still no MB VLARs going to GPUs.


. . It seems strange to me that such a commitment is being honoured when Guppis which are at the very least as demanding as MB VLARs are being distributed as GPU tasks. Anyone else see a pradox there?

No.
MB VLARs caused significant system usability issues. Guppie VLARs don't. Since they don't, why wouldn't they be run on GPUs?
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Message 1793556 - Posted: 5 Jun 2016, 0:19:52 UTC - in response to Message 1793551.  

There are a few things mixed up here.
Strong opinions about what guppi runs well on or not etc.

Maybe some facts should be collected first, instead of blaming one thing or the other or demanding one thing or the other.



. . Well Guppis definitely run well on CPUs, on my core i5-6400 they actually take slightly less time then normal MB tasks.

. . And they definitely have a hate/hate relationship with Nvidia GPUs. In fact they are total brats.

. . Anything else? :)
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Message 1793558 - Posted: 5 Jun 2016, 0:23:44 UTC - in response to Message 1793555.  
Last modified: 5 Jun 2016, 0:24:22 UTC

Fine then more people will leave, vlars it was agreed would not be on the gpu again We were told, promised really, sounds like that was an empty(hollow) promise...

That was MB data & that is still the case. There are still no MB VLARs going to GPUs.


. . It seems strange to me that such a commitment is being honoured when Guppis which are at the very least as demanding as MB VLARs are being distributed as GPU tasks. Anyone else see a pradox there?

No.
MB VLARs caused significant system usability issues. Guppie VLARs don't. Since they don't, why wouldn't they be run on GPUs?



. . Now that is a scary thought, so MB VLARs on GPUs actually cause more system disruption than Guppis do?

. . That could cause me nightmares.
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Message 1793559 - Posted: 5 Jun 2016, 0:26:27 UTC - in response to Message 1793558.  

. . Now that is a scary thought, so MB VLARs actually cause more system disruption than Guppis do?

What system disruption do the Guppies cause on your system?

The only issue everyone else appears to be having is they take considerably longer than their estimated time to crunch.
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Profile Jeff Buck Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
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Message 1793580 - Posted: 5 Jun 2016, 1:59:29 UTC - in response to Message 1793534.  

...the installer works fine...

That's about the only on topic post you've made here today. Would you please take the non-installer issues elsewhere. I'm getting quite tired of coming back to this thread when I see new posts, expecting to get the latest info on the installer, and finding post after post that are totally unrelated. Thank you.
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Message 1793587 - Posted: 5 Jun 2016, 2:30:55 UTC - in response to Message 1793580.  

I'm getting quite tired of coming back to this thread when I see new posts, expecting to get the latest info on the installer, and finding post after post that are totally unrelated. Thank you.

Sorry.
I try to ignore the off topic posts, but often can't help myself.
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Message 1793599 - Posted: 5 Jun 2016, 4:10:29 UTC - in response to Message 1793538.  
Last modified: 5 Jun 2016, 4:29:33 UTC

Anybody got an incompatibility wizard I can use to detect a 32-bit operating system from a 32-bit application (the installer itself), to say "Hi. I'm a 64-bit application really"?

Something simpler than https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms684139(v=vs.85).aspx?


x64 Windows should have a registry key in its default registry hive to do with WoW32 node, which wouldn't be present on x86

[Edit:] https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms724072(v=vs.85).aspx

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Wow6432Node


The applications for x64 usually have x64 or Win64 in the filename

[Edit2:] There is one complication in that NSIS installers i believe are still natively (and sensibly) 32 bit, so you see the 32 bit hive by default. Back in the day I did put logic near the top of the NSiS script to switch hives during Boinc client location detection. Don't know if that still works the same way, but if still present can set a flag there somewhere.
"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.
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Message 1793615 - Posted: 5 Jun 2016, 7:31:15 UTC - in response to Message 1793599.  

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Wow6432Node

That sounds like a goer. I can ask for something universally present, like

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\CurrentVersion

and if I get an answer, I'm on a 64-bit machine? Silence means 32-bit? I'll give it a try. Thanks.
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Message 1793616 - Posted: 5 Jun 2016, 7:34:21 UTC - in response to Message 1793615.  
Last modified: 5 Jun 2016, 7:56:39 UTC

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Wow6432Node

That sounds like a goer. I can ask for something universally present, like

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\CurrentVersion

and if I get an answer, I'm on a 64-bit machine? Silence means 32-bit? I'll give it a try. Thanks.


Sounds right, give it a go [failure would mean just rethinking the key]. NSIS always was deceptively powerful, which is why I chose it back then.

[Edit:] note there would be far reduced necessity now to separate 64 and 32 bit than there would have been when I was making them. Substantial customers were on dialup back then. Perhaps simplicity of combining to a single installer is justified now ?
"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.
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Message 1793619 - Posted: 5 Jun 2016, 7:54:58 UTC - in response to Message 1793514.  

And now I suppose I know what this "CreateProcess() failed" means.
x86 OS and x64-only provided installer.
So, if you see such error on CPU app download x86 build from my cloud and manually revert back to proper binary:
https://cloud.mail.ru/public/3nxq/SgQBZXcM7


I offered a copy from my website yesterday.
But it seems it has been ignored.


With each crime and every kindness we birth our future.
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Message 1793620 - Posted: 5 Jun 2016, 7:59:04 UTC - in response to Message 1793619.  
Last modified: 5 Jun 2016, 7:59:49 UTC

And now I suppose I know what this "CreateProcess() failed" means.
x86 OS and x64-only provided installer.
So, if you see such error on CPU app download x86 build from my cloud and manually revert back to proper binary:
https://cloud.mail.ru/public/3nxq/SgQBZXcM7


I offered a copy from my website yesterday.
But it seems it has been ignored.


Seemed (at the time) to be something broken we didn't understand yet Mike, because the CPU seems to support SSE3. As Raistmer picked up on, probably the problem was OS was 32 bit, while the apps in the installer were 64 bit.
"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.
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Message 1793622 - Posted: 5 Jun 2016, 8:07:43 UTC - in response to Message 1793619.  
Last modified: 5 Jun 2016, 8:12:20 UTC

Your (everyone's) advice for corrective options was not ignored. I'm currently running speed testing with different command lines so I don't want to make any changes yet.

I'm willing to try a new installer, but that will be in about 12 hours before I finish.

I know now all I have to do is read Mikes aisub, and point it to the right app (which I should have).

EDIT: BTW I don't have a WOW tag in my registry on this computer, so you should get nothing returned.
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Message 1793624 - Posted: 5 Jun 2016, 8:09:05 UTC - in response to Message 1793620.  

And now I suppose I know what this "CreateProcess() failed" means.
x86 OS and x64-only provided installer.
So, if you see such error on CPU app download x86 build from my cloud and manually revert back to proper binary:
https://cloud.mail.ru/public/3nxq/SgQBZXcM7


I offered a copy from my website yesterday.
But it seems it has been ignored.


Seemed (at the time) to be something broken we didn't understand yet Mike, because the CPU seems to support SSE3. As Raistmer picked up on, probably the problem was OS was 32 bit, while the apps in the installer were 64 bit.

Or probably missed in the noise of me responding to all of the off topic posts.
Sorry again.
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Message 1793625 - Posted: 5 Jun 2016, 8:10:36 UTC

And yes, the CPU apps in the installer labelled 64 bit are 64 bit. The GPU apps are 32 bit, because there's no need to waste precious memory bandwidth on 64 bit transfers.

Since this thread is really about testing the installer, other deployment methods, and the behaviour of the applications after installation, are somewhat besides the point.
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Message 1793639 - Posted: 5 Jun 2016, 9:31:14 UTC - in response to Message 1793534.  
Last modified: 5 Jun 2016, 9:33:33 UTC

They do take forever to complete and so prevent the host machine from doing more productive tasks.


Then how one defines productivity of task ?
It's very important question - to establish correct metric.
(1)Productivity - bigger credit per hour?
(2)Productivity - hotter GPU?
(3)Productivity - better chance to achieve project goal?

Well, in ideal would be good if all these 3 metrics (there can be another too like less lags, more task number per hour and so on) would match.
Unfortunately, in current state of affairs these 3 metrics don't match.
So one should make educated choice what metric one will follow.

As was said many times already, GBT data represent results of targeted search. Chances to catch smth unusual much bigger than you specially stare for unusual not just glimpse between other observations.
So, productivity of "GUPPI VLAR" under metric (3) is much higher than any other task. Order of magnitude? Two orders? - hard to give quantative estimate but apparently much higher.

That's why worth to tolerate decrease in other metrics in my point of view.
Also of these 3 metrics (1) is mostly self-made one. CreditScrew is broken, period.
Metric (2) of course is important one. Would be good to have it as high as possible for all tasks, VLAR included. But, again, currently it happens to be lower for VLAR. Optimizations possible to improve it over time (also, optimizations possible to improve it overal again as was made with each new opt apps release).
But, all this secondary to single most important metric - how closer we to project goal. And with starting processing of targeted observations we much closer.
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Message 1793641 - Posted: 5 Jun 2016, 9:42:47 UTC - in response to Message 1793615.  

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Wow6432Node

That sounds like a goer. I can ask for something universally present, like

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\CurrentVersion

and if I get an answer, I'm on a 64-bit machine? Silence means 32-bit? I'll give it a try. Thanks.

Also, would be nice to add (x64) for application name on choice panel.
If one missed x64 in installer filename there is no other possibilty to understand one going wrong route until installer finished and too late to save cache.
Having SSE3 x64, SSE2 x64 will make it much more fool-proofed.
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Message 1793643 - Posted: 5 Jun 2016, 9:43:38 UTC - in response to Message 1793559.  

. . Now that is a scary thought, so MB VLARs actually cause more system disruption than Guppis do?

What system disruption do the Guppies cause on your system?

The only issue everyone else appears to be having is they take considerably longer than their estimated time to crunch.


. . That's the one :)
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