Average Credit Decreasing?

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Profile jason_gee
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Message 1787178 - Posted: 13 May 2016, 2:03:39 UTC - in response to Message 1787176.  

Freefall - Skydive


"Ï Feel Wondeful..."
"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.
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Message 1787181 - Posted: 13 May 2016, 2:07:28 UTC - in response to Message 1787176.  
Last modified: 13 May 2016, 2:08:35 UTC

And follow that with Roy Orbison's "It's Over" - or would "Crying" be more appropriate :).
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Message 1787185 - Posted: 13 May 2016, 2:26:27 UTC

And, sadly, you can probably add to the playlist "You Ain't Seen Nuthin' Yet" by BTO...

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Message 1787186 - Posted: 13 May 2016, 2:28:48 UTC

Why care, it is commonly known CN is gibberish. I shall crunch on.
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Message 1787208 - Posted: 13 May 2016, 4:57:07 UTC - in response to Message 1787186.  

If it's impossible to calculate the correct amount of Cobblestones for any wu, why not just change the credit to be a WU-credit, giving 100 credit for a WU and if some WU are more calculation-intensive then give them some more - like 125. (don't focus on the numbers here, only the idea - which seems more like Einstein@home's approach)

This would follow the KISS priciple and I have a feeling that everyone would be happy as the credit would rise to something similar to before the last CreditDropdown started.
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Message 1787210 - Posted: 13 May 2016, 5:01:54 UTC - in response to Message 1787208.  
Last modified: 13 May 2016, 5:02:30 UTC

If it's impossible to calculate the correct amount of Cobblestones for any wu, why not just change the credit to be a WU-credit, giving 100 credit for a WU and if some WU are more calculation-intensive then give them some more - like 125. (don't focus on the numbers here, only the idea - which seems more like Einstein@home's approach)

This would follow the KISS priciple and I have a feeling that everyone would be happy as the credit would rise to something similar to before the last CreditDropdown started.


No-one ever said (to my knowledge) that it's impossible to calculate the 'correct credit', only that the current mechanism is broken.
"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.
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Message 1787212 - Posted: 13 May 2016, 5:03:50 UTC - in response to Message 1787210.  

No-one ever said (to my knowledge) that it's impossible to calculate the 'correct credit', only that the current mechanism is broken.


OK - I rest my case....
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Message 1787213 - Posted: 13 May 2016, 5:05:47 UTC - in response to Message 1787212.  
Last modified: 13 May 2016, 5:06:33 UTC

No-one ever said (to my knowledge) that it's impossible to calculate the 'correct credit', only that the current mechanism is broken.


OK - I rest my case....


I'd stretch it to cobblestone scale award (~3.3x now), and call it good.
"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.
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Message 1787231 - Posted: 13 May 2016, 8:18:53 UTC - in response to Message 1787213.  

I notice some AP work is being split.
That should slow the rate of fall for those that get some.
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Message 1787236 - Posted: 13 May 2016, 9:01:19 UTC

how was that about a wise (wo)man accepting the things she/he cannot change?

*ducks*
A person who won't read has no advantage over one who can't read. (Mark Twain)
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Message 1787260 - Posted: 13 May 2016, 12:54:12 UTC

Well my 3570K rig (that was out of action for several weeks at the end of V7 MB and came back online just after the V8 MB intro) has gone from a nice gentle rise to a 28,800 RAC under stock (expected to reach around 29,500 at the time), to an extreme drop (currently down to 22,000) which doesn't look like stopping any time soon.

My 2500K has just topped out at just over a pitiful 14,000 RAC (which has only been using it's GPU's here since the 19th of April) and I'm expecting that to drop now as well.

What was wrong with the system we were using back in the MB V5-6 days?

At least a person could make direct comparisons back then, but then we got slammed (thanks to you know who) coming up to V7 and now after the weeks of CPU's only and the combo CPU/GPU V8 stock testing I've been doing has been made totally useless and for nothing now as the try line is being moved again.

It's just good that I like this project so much or I'd be off to other projects that pay just as much as SETI@home use to or even better.

Cheers.
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Message 1787267 - Posted: 13 May 2016, 13:19:45 UTC - in response to Message 1787260.  

to other projects that pay just as much as SETI@home use to or even better.

Cheers.

Show me project that pays (actually, that pays more than electricity costs) and I consider to crunch it to rise money for new hardware. Until then "pay" just disguise for "offer me more bragging rights" Not so nice sounding to use it for complaining, yeah?
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Message 1787272 - Posted: 13 May 2016, 13:42:22 UTC
Last modified: 13 May 2016, 13:53:20 UTC

"pay" just disguise for "offer me more bragging rights" Not so nice sounding to use it for complaining, yeah?


Actually it sounds "nice".
It's been fun to upgrade my system or change settings and get more credits.
To assess what my investment, I want a credit system that reflects my calculation power and time relatively stably.
I'm learning that there are many factors to be considered and very difficult to satisfy everybody by reading these thread.

Still I consider the credit system, which can not reflect resources we put in is a bad one.

If it's so difficult to give equivalent credits among different projects why not using different currency for each project for now?
After a while, an appropriate exchange rate may be established.
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Message 1787277 - Posted: 13 May 2016, 13:52:23 UTC - in response to Message 1787267.  

to other projects that pay just as much as SETI@home use to or even better.

Cheers.

Show me project that pays (actually, that pays more than electricity costs) and I consider to crunch it to rise money for new hardware. Until then "pay" just disguise for "offer me more bragging rights" Not so nice sounding to use it for complaining, yeah?

Coming from you, you should know exactly what I think of that and that hasn't changed any in the last few years (far to literal and greedy = an**). ;-)

Cheers.
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Message 1787278 - Posted: 13 May 2016, 13:52:26 UTC - in response to Message 1787272.  
Last modified: 13 May 2016, 13:58:44 UTC


Still I consider the credit system, which can not reflect resources we put in is a bad one.

All do.


If it's so difficult to give equivalent credits among different projects why not using different currency for each project?

Cause the idea was to allow fair competition w/o ANY relation to project choice. To posts like "pay better or I'll move to another project" never appear from one side, and team competitions with members doing projects they REALY WANT TO DO from other side.

As we know this intention was not implemented right in CreditScrew. In such degree that only few BOINC projects were implemented it at all and there is no real comparison possible even in frames of single project-different apps not saying about different projects.

So, implementing "many currencies" approach one should have "many currencies" even inside single SETI project. For AP, and few for MB.
And even then the fine idea to allow fair competition still allowing to participate in what one feels right thing to do will fail.
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Message 1787279 - Posted: 13 May 2016, 14:05:57 UTC

one should have "many currencies" even inside single SETI project. For AP, and few for MB.

Isn't current continuous drop over a month mainly caused by trying to be fair among different projects?
Someone benefits from one software or one hardware over another within a project seems to me a different story. If someone wants to be more productive, it will be solved by switching them.
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Message 1787283 - Posted: 13 May 2016, 14:14:54 UTC - in response to Message 1787279.  
Last modified: 13 May 2016, 14:18:20 UTC

one should have "many currencies" even inside single SETI project. For AP, and few for MB.

Isn't current continuous drop over a month mainly caused by trying to be fair among different projects?
Someone benefits from one software or one hardware over another within a project seems to me a different story. If someone wants to be more productive, it will be solved by switching them.

Switching to... what? If your intention to find ET, to what software you will switch then...? Do you really did not see constantly appearing posts about "project X pays much better" ? So, switching to project X will help in finding ET?? And how decrease in credits in SETI will help if other projects already grant more credits? So no, it's just a signs of broken system. But actually nothing new in that. I hoped just explain why such system [with common "currency"] could be needed at all (working one, not current CreditScrew).
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Message 1787289 - Posted: 13 May 2016, 14:52:29 UTC
Last modified: 13 May 2016, 14:54:35 UTC

Your didn't understand what I wrote.
what software you will switch then...?

I said within A PROJECT which you brought up.
If AP is more than MB, set your system to be able to process AP preferentially. That's what I meant.

project X pays much better

To solve this, simplest way is to make them not comparable.
This way users chose projects for their merit in their mind, not for credit.
Make them compete within the project if they WANT to.
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Message 1787360 - Posted: 13 May 2016, 22:21:51 UTC - in response to Message 1787289.  

project X pays much better

To solve this, simplest way is to make them not comparable.
This way users chose projects for their merit in their mind, not for credit.
Make them compete within the project if they WANT to.

The whole point of BOINC though was that they were meant to be comparable.
Grant
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Message 1787396 - Posted: 14 May 2016, 2:34:31 UTC - in response to Message 1787360.  

project X pays much better

To solve this, simplest way is to make them not comparable.
This way users chose projects for their merit in their mind, not for credit.
Make them compete within the project if they WANT to.

The whole point of BOINC though was that they were meant to be comparable.

But, that concept was never enforced as a requirement of being a project under the Boinc umbrella.
So, projects have been allowed to hand out credits like candy in whatever fashion they wish to.
And with so much water under the dam, it is never going to be changed.

That is why I am rather proud of my Seti credits....they are very hard earned credits.

Meow.
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message boards : Number crunching : Average Credit Decreasing?


 
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