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Number crunching :
Average Credit Decreasing?
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Author | Message |
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tullio Send message Joined: 9 Apr 04 Posts: 8797 Credit: 2,930,782 RAC: 1 |
All my tasks are V8 now. guppi tasks take a little longer, but not much. Frankly I don't know. As I said, I am not interested in credits. I was rather surprised by the amount of credits given by Einstein@home to GPU tasks, which increased my RAC well above my usual standards in 6 or 7 BOINC projects. Tullio |
Raistmer Send message Joined: 16 Jun 01 Posts: 6325 Credit: 106,370,077 RAC: 121 |
BTW, Einstein@home on CreditScrew currently? |
HAL9000 Send message Joined: 11 Sep 99 Posts: 6534 Credit: 196,805,888 RAC: 57 |
BTW, Einstein@home on CreditScrew currently? I believe Einstein@home uses fixed credit per app. All of my tasks have been the same credit for Binary Radio Pulsar Search (Arecibo, GPU) & Binary Radio Pulsar Search (Parkes PMPS XT). SETI@home classic workunits: 93,865 CPU time: 863,447 hours Join the [url=http://tinyurl.com/8y46zvu]BP6/VP6 User Group[ |
TBar Send message Joined: 22 May 99 Posts: 5204 Credit: 840,779,836 RAC: 2,768 |
All my tasks are V8 now. guppi tasks take a little longer, but not much. I dunno, but perhaps if someone could figure out Why CreditFew usually gives Double the credit to a GPU GUPPI when matched against another GPU than when matched against a CPU we might discover a nasty Bug. It has to be significant that the same GPU scores twice as high depending if it is matched against a GPU or a CPU. If the same score was given in both instances the credit for a GUPPI VLAR wouldn't be that bad providing you are using a recent App that runs them decently. Look at these results; GPU vs CPU http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/workunit.php?wuid=2159959167 http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/workunit.php?wuid=2159959173 GPU vs GPU http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/workunit.php?wuid=2160605280 http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/workunit.php?wuid=2159519714 http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/workunit.php?wuid=2159519586 Of course some of them don't follow the pattern, and it does seem the highest scores are given to nVidia vs nVidia. Possibly it is just random numbers... Now it seems the forum is kinda sluggish as well. |
rob smith Send message Joined: 7 Mar 03 Posts: 22527 Credit: 416,307,556 RAC: 380 |
Works for me, so question is what do we do about it ? Three answers: 1 - Nothing (preferred by DA as he won't collect any facial egg) 2 - Fixed credit per task type, simple only two values, one for MB and one for AP. The majority of BOINC projects are using this as they see CreditNew as being too difficult to configure correctly. 3 - Develop a task-based system that takes into account the nature of the task. I've been looking at one for MB tasks, and it is actually quite trivial to do - a simple function of AR. For APs the lack of suitable data is proving an obstacle, but I've got a couple of ideas. Also the task error handling needs to be looked at, there is something "not right" with it just now, it should never give "full marks" to a task that ended early in an error state, but it does every now and then - I suspect it is tied up with the way CN uses the user run times to calculate the score, but I will need a bit more time to look and see what is going on it that snake pit of code. *Did anyone ever mention that the CN code is somewhat convoluted in its structure. I've seen less tangled bowls of spaghetti.... Bob Smith Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society) Somewhere in the (un)known Universe? |
rob smith Send message Joined: 7 Mar 03 Posts: 22527 Credit: 416,307,556 RAC: 380 |
Rather than edit my last post: The advantage of both 2 & 3 is that they give a consistent score per task that is totally independent of the processor or application employed. Thus if one has a very fast processor your score per hour will be higher than a low end processor, also it will be a very simple to compare between the various optimised and non-optimised applications. Bob Smith Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society) Somewhere in the (un)known Universe? |
Lionel Send message Joined: 25 Mar 00 Posts: 680 Credit: 563,640,304 RAC: 597 |
+1 |
Wiggo Send message Joined: 24 Jan 00 Posts: 36774 Credit: 261,360,520 RAC: 489 |
Rather than edit my last post: Now that I totally agree with. Cheers. |
Lionel Send message Joined: 25 Mar 00 Posts: 680 Credit: 563,640,304 RAC: 597 |
As noted much elsewhere, they process much more slowly than Arecibo MBs but pay the same credit. Not quite true, they take any where between 4x to 6x as long to complete and from what I have seen in the "valid" area you get about 2x the credit (if you are lucky), hence the nose dive. |
Al Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 1682 Credit: 477,343,364 RAC: 482 |
Rob, quick question, based upon the replies since I asked my previous question. From everything I'm hearing, wouldn't it just be better to scrap the massive mess, and try to write something fresh and new (and hopefully a lot simpler, and more scaleable/updateable), instead of trying to put a band-aid on a severed leg bleeding out of a femoral artery? Well, maybe not quite that extreme, as the patient probably has more than a few minutes to live, but you get the drift. Or, would the infamous DA be the impediment to doing such a thing? Face, egg, & all that such and stuff? |
Raistmer Send message Joined: 16 Jun 01 Posts: 6325 Credit: 106,370,077 RAC: 121 |
I've been looking at one for MB tasks, and it is actually quite trivial to do - a simple function of AR. Function will be different for different devices. |
Cactus Bob Send message Joined: 19 May 99 Posts: 209 Credit: 10,924,287 RAC: 29 |
Every time I look and see my rac dropping I keep thinking there's a problem then I remember Credit Screw I Wish it was just Nvidia being screwed but at one time I was over 20K for my rac with APs, without APs is was 12 - 15K. Right now I am struggling to keep it above 7K. I am running AMD R9 280. Not only is my RAC dropping due to the Guppis and new MBs, I have to shut boinc down when I do other stuff, I used to be able to both at once but now I get crashes if I do. Thats a double whammy on the old RAC. Bob Sometimes I wonder, what happened to all the people I gave directions to? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SETI@home classic workunits 4,321 SETI@home classic CPU time 22,169 hours |
Chris Adamek Send message Joined: 15 May 99 Posts: 251 Credit: 434,772,072 RAC: 236 |
You should get the SoG app. You will be able to run multiple wu's at a time for basically the same about of time it takes to run 1. Even without it, you can probably run multiple to better effect than you are now. Chris |
Cactus Bob Send message Joined: 19 May 99 Posts: 209 Credit: 10,924,287 RAC: 29 |
I assume I would download this file from rastimer MB8_win_x86_SSE3_OpenCL_ATi_APU_r3430_SoG.7z It looks the only ati sog file. I tried to find a set of instructions on how to install and run this but there doesnt seem to be a set of instructions I could find. I haven't used lunatics and from what I read it doesn't handle SOG with some tweaking. While not a total luddite I am not sure I can handle a couple rewrite of my app_config.xml file without some help. Thanx Bob Sometimes I wonder, what happened to all the people I gave directions to? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SETI@home classic workunits 4,321 SETI@home classic CPU time 22,169 hours |
rob smith Send message Joined: 7 Mar 03 Posts: 22527 Credit: 416,307,556 RAC: 380 |
Al, I wouldn't scrap the current mess until a suitable, maintainable, replacement was developed. The main reason is I wold want some of its data to confirm calibration and scaling. I've just had a thought - given the issues I'm having getting enough suitable AP tasks I would set them to "constant score" for now, then the task-based score for MBs could go in quite rapidly. As for impediments - "I couldn't possibly comment" ;-) Bob Smith Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society) Somewhere in the (un)known Universe? |
Chris Adamek Send message Joined: 15 May 99 Posts: 251 Credit: 434,772,072 RAC: 236 |
Once I get some free time at work, I'll find the link for you. You probably don't want the APU one, there is a better match for your card. In the mean time, I would say grab the lunatics installer if you aren't opposed. It will help your CPU times and build your app_info.xml file so that all you will need to do is download the right SoG file and find/replace a few lines with app_info file. Might be this evening but I'll send you a PM. Chris I assume I would download this file from rastimer |
Ulrich Metzner Send message Joined: 3 Jul 02 Posts: 1256 Credit: 13,565,513 RAC: 13 |
I'm just crunching for Milkyway for a week and already have a higher RAC, than i had here before... :O Go figure! :þ Aloha, Uli |
Mr. Kevvy Send message Joined: 15 May 99 Posts: 3806 Credit: 1,114,826,392 RAC: 3,319 |
I'm just crunching for Milkyway for a week and already have a higher RAC, than i had here before... And if I move to Mexico and get a job as a janitor my paycheque in pesos will be larger than it is currently in dollars. There won't ever be a BOINC consistent credit payment across projects, because smaller or startup projects or those with not-so-interesting (or nigh-incomprehensible) goals overpay to attract volunteers, and will continue to do so. |
Cruncher-American Send message Joined: 25 Mar 02 Posts: 1513 Credit: 370,893,186 RAC: 340 |
Since running GBT (vlar) MBs on my two machines' dual GTX 980s makes them run like dual 460s (or something like that), I decided to bite (buy?) the bullet and build a dual 8-core machine (there's a thread on it in Number Crunching) so I can have 30 or so HT threads running on CPUs; after I see how that goes for a while, I may delete my i7-4790K machine (too few cores) and move his 980s to the new guy. Given that the vlars take about 4-5 times as long on the 980s as the non-vlars did, running 3 at a time on them will be the equivalent of maybe 3 cpu cores (it was 10 or 12 or more before the vlars). I may just sell the damn things, as they will have no advantage any more...well, except for APs, if we ever get any more of those. What a waste. And that is because the CUDA app is miscoded - it works, but as we all know, runs very slowly on vlars. Perhaps some of our resident smart guys can fix it? I'm looking at you, Jason!!!!! And this has nothing to do with Credit Ewww, which is the other bad code we have to deal with... |
Zalster Send message Joined: 27 May 99 Posts: 5517 Credit: 528,817,460 RAC: 242 |
Perhaps some of our resident smart guys can fix it? I'm looking at you, Jason!!!! I don't think it's fair to single him out. He already has a lot on his plate and donates his time and energy. Everyone is in the same boat. |
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