Average Credit Decreasing?

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Profile tullio
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Message 1787952 - Posted: 16 May 2016, 18:43:45 UTC - in response to Message 1787945.  
Last modified: 16 May 2016, 18:44:10 UTC

All my tasks are V8 now. guppi tasks take a little longer, but not much.
Tullio


and credit is equal for equal work ?

Frankly I don't know. As I said, I am not interested in credits. I was rather surprised by the amount of credits given by Einstein@home to GPU tasks, which increased my RAC well above my usual standards in 6 or 7 BOINC projects.
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Message 1787954 - Posted: 16 May 2016, 18:45:34 UTC - in response to Message 1787952.  
Last modified: 16 May 2016, 18:45:56 UTC

BTW, Einstein@home on CreditScrew currently?
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Message 1787955 - Posted: 16 May 2016, 18:47:17 UTC - in response to Message 1787954.  
Last modified: 16 May 2016, 18:48:44 UTC

BTW, Einstein@home on CreditScrew currently?

I believe Einstein@home uses fixed credit per app. All of my tasks have been the same credit for Binary Radio Pulsar Search (Arecibo, GPU) & Binary Radio Pulsar Search (Parkes PMPS XT).
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Message 1787960 - Posted: 16 May 2016, 19:15:30 UTC - in response to Message 1787945.  

All my tasks are V8 now. guppi tasks take a little longer, but not much.
Tullio


and credit is equal for equal work ?

I dunno, but perhaps if someone could figure out Why CreditFew usually gives Double the credit to a GPU GUPPI when matched against another GPU than when matched against a CPU we might discover a nasty Bug. It has to be significant that the same GPU scores twice as high depending if it is matched against a GPU or a CPU. If the same score was given in both instances the credit for a GUPPI VLAR wouldn't be that bad providing you are using a recent App that runs them decently. Look at these results;
GPU vs CPU
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/workunit.php?wuid=2159959167
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/workunit.php?wuid=2159959173

GPU vs GPU
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/workunit.php?wuid=2160605280
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/workunit.php?wuid=2159519714
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/workunit.php?wuid=2159519586

Of course some of them don't follow the pattern, and it does seem the highest scores are given to nVidia vs nVidia. Possibly it is just random numbers...

Now it seems the forum is kinda sluggish as well.
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Message 1787980 - Posted: 16 May 2016, 21:23:01 UTC - in response to Message 1787943.  

Works for me, so question is what do we do about it ?


Three answers:
1 - Nothing (preferred by DA as he won't collect any facial egg)
2 - Fixed credit per task type, simple only two values, one for MB and one for AP. The majority of BOINC projects are using this as they see CreditNew as being too difficult to configure correctly.
3 - Develop a task-based system that takes into account the nature of the task. I've been looking at one for MB tasks, and it is actually quite trivial to do - a simple function of AR. For APs the lack of suitable data is proving an obstacle, but I've got a couple of ideas.
Also the task error handling needs to be looked at, there is something "not right" with it just now, it should never give "full marks" to a task that ended early in an error state, but it does every now and then - I suspect it is tied up with the way CN uses the user run times to calculate the score, but I will need a bit more time to look and see what is going on it that snake pit of code.



*Did anyone ever mention that the CN code is somewhat convoluted in its structure. I've seen less tangled bowls of spaghetti....
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Message 1787983 - Posted: 16 May 2016, 21:28:12 UTC

Rather than edit my last post:

The advantage of both 2 & 3 is that they give a consistent score per task that is totally independent of the processor or application employed. Thus if one has a very fast processor your score per hour will be higher than a low end processor, also it will be a very simple to compare between the various optimised and non-optimised applications.
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Message 1787990 - Posted: 16 May 2016, 21:52:32 UTC - in response to Message 1787874.  


I personally would prefer that it be repaired, as it can and should be a useful barometer of how one's computers are running.


+1
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Message 1787992 - Posted: 16 May 2016, 21:54:40 UTC - in response to Message 1787983.  

Rather than edit my last post:

The advantage of both 2 & 3 is that they give a consistent score per task that is totally independent of the processor or application employed. Thus if one has a very fast processor your score per hour will be higher than a low end processor, also it will be a very simple to compare between the various optimised and non-optimised applications.

Now that I totally agree with.

Cheers.
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Message 1787993 - Posted: 16 May 2016, 21:57:26 UTC - in response to Message 1787881.  
Last modified: 16 May 2016, 22:09:50 UTC

As noted much elsewhere, they process much more slowly than Arecibo MBs but pay the same credit.


Not quite true, they take any where between 4x to 6x as long to complete and from what I have seen in the "valid" area you get about 2x the credit (if you are lucky), hence the nose dive.
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Message 1787994 - Posted: 16 May 2016, 21:57:30 UTC
Last modified: 16 May 2016, 21:59:56 UTC

Rob, quick question, based upon the replies since I asked my previous question. From everything I'm hearing, wouldn't it just be better to scrap the massive mess, and try to write something fresh and new (and hopefully a lot simpler, and more scaleable/updateable), instead of trying to put a band-aid on a severed leg bleeding out of a femoral artery? Well, maybe not quite that extreme, as the patient probably has more than a few minutes to live, but you get the drift. Or, would the infamous DA be the impediment to doing such a thing? Face, egg, & all that such and stuff?

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Message 1788025 - Posted: 16 May 2016, 23:52:26 UTC - in response to Message 1787980.  

I've been looking at one for MB tasks, and it is actually quite trivial to do - a simple function of AR.

Function will be different for different devices.
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Message 1788056 - Posted: 17 May 2016, 3:13:53 UTC - in response to Message 1787881.  

Every time I look and see my rac dropping I keep thinking there's a problem then I remember Credit Screw


Not the cause anymore... it's now due to your exclusively NVidia farm receiving GUPPI VLAR work units on the GPUs. As noted much elsewhere, they process much more slowly than Arecibo MBs but pay the same credit.


I Wish it was just Nvidia being screwed but at one time I was over 20K for my rac with APs, without APs is was 12 - 15K. Right now I am struggling to keep it above 7K. I am running AMD R9 280. Not only is my RAC dropping due to the Guppis and new MBs, I have to shut boinc down when I do other stuff, I used to be able to both at once but now I get crashes if I do. Thats a double whammy on the old RAC.

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Message 1788058 - Posted: 17 May 2016, 3:25:22 UTC - in response to Message 1788056.  

You should get the SoG app. You will be able to run multiple wu's at a time for basically the same about of time it takes to run 1. Even without it, you can probably run multiple to better effect than you are now.

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Message 1788064 - Posted: 17 May 2016, 4:03:05 UTC

I assume I would download this file from rastimer

MB8_win_x86_SSE3_OpenCL_ATi_APU_r3430_SoG.7z

It looks the only ati sog file. I tried to find a set of instructions on how to install and run this but there doesnt seem to be a set of instructions I could find. I haven't used lunatics and from what I read it doesn't handle SOG with some tweaking.

While not a total luddite I am not sure I can handle a couple rewrite of my app_config.xml file without some help.

Thanx
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Message 1788074 - Posted: 17 May 2016, 5:04:25 UTC - in response to Message 1787994.  

Al,
I wouldn't scrap the current mess until a suitable, maintainable, replacement was developed. The main reason is I wold want some of its data to confirm calibration and scaling.
I've just had a thought - given the issues I'm having getting enough suitable AP tasks I would set them to "constant score" for now, then the task-based score for MBs could go in quite rapidly.

As for impediments - "I couldn't possibly comment" ;-)
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Message 1788145 - Posted: 17 May 2016, 13:02:36 UTC - in response to Message 1788064.  

Once I get some free time at work, I'll find the link for you. You probably don't want the APU one, there is a better match for your card.

In the mean time, I would say grab the lunatics installer if you aren't opposed. It will help your CPU times and build your app_info.xml file so that all you will need to do is download the right SoG file and find/replace a few lines with app_info file.

Might be this evening but I'll send you a PM.

Chris

I assume I would download this file from rastimer

MB8_win_x86_SSE3_OpenCL_ATi_APU_r3430_SoG.7z

It looks the only ati sog file. I tried to find a set of instructions on how to install and run this but there doesnt seem to be a set of instructions I could find. I haven't used lunatics and from what I read it doesn't handle SOG with some tweaking.

While not a total luddite I am not sure I can handle a couple rewrite of my app_config.xml file without some help.

Thanx
Bob

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Message 1788799 - Posted: 19 May 2016, 21:23:08 UTC

I'm just crunching for Milkyway for a week and already have a higher RAC, than i had here before... :O

Go figure! :þ
Aloha, Uli

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Message 1788817 - Posted: 19 May 2016, 22:17:33 UTC - in response to Message 1788799.  
Last modified: 19 May 2016, 22:22:10 UTC

I'm just crunching for Milkyway for a week and already have a higher RAC, than i had here before...


And if I move to Mexico and get a job as a janitor my paycheque in pesos will be larger than it is currently in dollars.

There won't ever be a BOINC consistent credit payment across projects, because smaller or startup projects or those with not-so-interesting (or nigh-incomprehensible) goals overpay to attract volunteers, and will continue to do so.
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Message 1788819 - Posted: 19 May 2016, 22:21:28 UTC

Since running GBT (vlar) MBs on my two machines' dual GTX 980s makes them run like dual 460s (or something like that), I decided to bite (buy?) the bullet and build a dual 8-core machine (there's a thread on it in Number Crunching) so I can have 30 or so HT threads running on CPUs; after I see how that goes for a while, I may delete my i7-4790K machine (too few cores) and move his 980s to the new guy.

Given that the vlars take about 4-5 times as long on the 980s as the non-vlars did, running 3 at a time on them will be the equivalent of maybe 3 cpu cores (it was 10 or 12 or more before the vlars). I may just sell the damn things, as they will have no advantage any more...well, except for APs, if we ever get any more of those. What a waste.

And that is because the CUDA app is miscoded - it works, but as we all know, runs very slowly on vlars. Perhaps some of our resident smart guys can fix it? I'm looking at you, Jason!!!!!

And this has nothing to do with Credit Ewww, which is the other bad code we have to deal with...
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Message 1788829 - Posted: 19 May 2016, 22:48:30 UTC - in response to Message 1788819.  

Perhaps some of our resident smart guys can fix it? I'm looking at you, Jason!!!!


I don't think it's fair to single him out. He already has a lot on his plate and donates his time and energy.

Everyone is in the same boat.
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Message boards : Number crunching : Average Credit Decreasing?


 
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