OK OK I was guessing. I pulled a power bill from my co-op and I'm being billed 12.21 cents/KWH plus a 1.5 cents/KWh "power purchase correction factor" (whatever that is). so it's really 13.71 cents/KWH

So the costs, should be 37 percent more than I've depicted.

OR

AMD 64 3700, $12.34/mo
Laptop AMD64 3700 $13.69/mo
P4 1.8 $18.90
Celeron 500 $7.95

NOTE: this bill was from August last year, rates have probably changed, but I'm not going through this again any time soon.

[edit] that's $52.88 a month or $634.56 a year donated to boinc projects.

Now for my own curiosity, I've done the same to all my puters and here's what I found out:
****

Thanks for the info.
Interesting to see that the laptop with a very similar CPU to the desktop actually uses slightly more power than the desktop, and that the P4 really does suck up a lot of power, even when running at low clock speeds.

All rates calculated at 10 cents/KWh.

Oh to have such cheap power. Around the 14¢/kWh mark here.



EDIT- fixed multiple spelling errors.

---

Grant
Darwin NT

In light of the current conversation between Administrator and others, I've dredged this thread up from 452 days ago.

Earlier in this thread stated:

Message 63208 - Posted 12 Jan 2005 3:32:14 UTC
Last modified: 12 Jan 2005 3:38:35 UTC
OK, I went and did it. I placed my multimeter in series with the cord and as expected the "Clamp On" ammeter wasn't very accurate at that low of a current draw.

This puter drew from 830-912 mA (milliamps) from Bios load to the completion of windows loading. I shut down Boinc and it dropped to between 630-655 mA. This represents a delta (difference) of 228.5 mA (avg)or 27.83 watts.

I'll start boinc. Yep it again went back up to 884mA. It is consistent.

So, running this puter with Boinc ON costs (871mA [avg] x 121.8 Vac= 106 watts) 106 watts/1000 x .08cents=.00848 dollars/hour or .848 cents/hour. .848 x 24 = 20.352 cents/day or $6.11 a month.

I could save .22264 cents/hour, 5.34 cents/day, or $1.60 /month. heck, If this puter wasn't crunching Boinc work I could just shut it off and save the big $6.10/month.

Now these are accurate figures (unless I made a math mistake) and can be used for other purposes.

Now for my own curiosity, I've done the same to all my puters and here's what I found out:

AMD 64 3700 Sandiego, Asus A8N-E mobo, Enermax 450W psu, Asus 6200 PCI express video card, 1M OCZ gold ram, OCed.

With boinc running 1120mA max, 1024 mA min, 1043 mA average (125.16 Watts)
W/O boinc running 888mA max, 704 mA min, 704 mA aversage (84.48 Watts)
This machine costs 1.25 Cents/hour, 30.04 Cents/day, and $9.01/month.

Gateway laptop, AMD 64 3700 754 socket, 1 M ram

With boinc running 1200mA max, 752 mA min, 1157mA avgerage (138.84 Watts)
W/O boinc running 496mA max, 416mA min, 440mA average (52.8 Watts)
This machine costs 1.39 Cents/hour, 33.32 Cents/day, and $9.9965/month.

HP 760n, P4 1.8, 512M ram, crappy Asus board

With boinc running 1680mA max, 1472 mA min, 1597 mA average (191.64 Watts)
W/O boinc running 1016 mA max, 928mA min, 949mA average (113.88 Watts)
This machine costs 1.92 Cents/hour, 45.99 Cents/day, and $13.798/month.

HP 6545c, Celeron 500, 256M ram

With boinc running 688mA max, 640mA min, 672mA average (80.64 Watts)
W/O boinc running 648mA max, 448mA min, 460mA average (55.2 Watts)
This machine costs .8064 Cents/hour, 19.35 Cents/day, and $5.806/month.

conditions
All measurements taken with Fluke 87 multimeter place in series with the power cord to the puter.
All monitors powered seperately.
Measurement sample period 2-3 minutes of record time after allowing some "settle" time after turning off boinc, or after starting boinc.
Each sample repeated and all results similar to those listed, so I went with the higher Max sample on each reported result.
Monthly rate calculated with 30 days/month.
All rates calculated at 10 cents/KWh.

---

> One way to cut down power usage if running seti (or most other BOINC enabled
> projects) 24/7 is to run it in a ramdrive, have all your harddrives spindown
> when they are not used and have enough RAM to avoid swapping.

Even without a RAM drive: My PC has 4 harddisks in it, so only one needs to be spinning for BOINC (and my satelite receiver actually also uses it for storage, so I want to keep it running so that timer recordings don't fail to start because the hdd wasn't running). Would there be a way (in windows xp) to set the power management for the other three drives to spin down, but keep the one running? So far I've only been able to either have them all run, or have them all spin down...

---

> 17 'puters.... 40 watts each....


.68 kilowatts, that's about .007 cents an hour and I live in the swamps of Louisiana.

.

---

<a href="http://www.brainsmashr.com"><img src="http://www.brainsmashr.com/signature.gif"><img src="http://brainsmashr.com/boinc/counter_big.php?id=305369&amp;project=seti&amp;ctx=white&amp;cva=red&amp;cbo=white&amp;cbg=black&amp;linethickness=2"></a>

well, in my case I am unfortunately and very sadly single (and seemingly forever), therefore my bed doesn't get used for that other use. Add this to the fact that I work 24 hour shifts and that cuts out another big chunk of time my bed doesn't get used even for sleeping. (except on my days off)

Jim

> Nah nah nah...theres a problem with all of this.
>
> With all of your concern about whether the bed was radiating enough heat, and
> trying to keep the bed cool, you would avoid other uses for the bed itself =P
>
> I've heard of video games creating this problem but never BOINC...
>
> Hmmm...maybe its an alien plot!!
>

---

> i'd bet that there are enough ppl with these setups (i still recall the guy
> with 8 physical cpus in one of his boxes)

it would be fair to assume though that having a farm setup like this would require less power consumption than 8 seperate boxes.

---

Kolch - Crunching for the BOINC@Australia team since July 2004.
Search for your own intelligence...

> of course, the only way to put this to rest is one of the nice developers to
> actually check the number of active hosts ;)
>

You can track it yourself, the stats files are generated daily including one for all the hosts. From the bottom of the Statistics and Leaderboard page:

These sites use XML-format data exported by SETI@home.
The format is described here, and the files are here.

Download host.gz every couple of days and use it to keep track of all the hosts. Active hosts are the ones with credit that keeps changing. Beware though, even though its a respectable 19MB gzipped, uncompressed its over 145MB :)

> > I have 8 with two having two cpu's each for a total of 10 cpu's. I would
> bet
> > that the total comuters being used is a fair amount above the 159,672.
> >
>
> I'd say the number of truly active hosts is less than that.
> For instance, we've got 2 hosts/computers listed but only
> 1 is actively crunching. The other was retired in July

i'd have to vote on the side of the number being higher, i have 10 PCs currently crunching, one HT. of those, only one is 8hrs/day, the rest are 24/7.
i'd bet that there are enough ppl with these setups (i still recall the guy with 8 physical cpus in one of his boxes) that we make up for the single non-24hr and inactive crunchers.
of course, the only way to put this to rest is one of the nice developers to actually check the number of active hosts ;)

happy crunching!

---

S@h Berkeley's Staff Friends Club

> "SETI/BOINC has 159,672 Active hosts at $2.10 a month times 159,672
> hosts = $335,311.20 a month to operate the entire SETI/BOINC program."
>
> Of those 159,672 user, how many do you suppose are running multiple computers?
> I have 8 with two having two cpu's each for a total of 10 cpu's. I would bet
> that the total comuters being used is a fair amount above the 159,672.
>

I'd say the number of truly active hosts is less than that.
For instance, we've got 2 hosts/computers listed but only
1 is actively crunching. The other was retired in July
but is still there because we haven't been able to delete it
due to 1 WU that's still listed for it. There's probably
quite a few users that have never crunched yet and some users
who don't even have a machine listed and some that have quit
because this "Find The Aliens Game" was no fun when they
couldn't find the start button or the joystick controls.

Dominique

---

Nah nah nah...theres a problem with all of this.

With all of your concern about whether the bed was radiating enough heat, and trying to keep the bed cool, you would avoid other uses for the bed itself =P

I've heard of video games creating this problem but never BOINC...

Hmmm...maybe its an alien plot!!

"SETI/BOINC has 159,672 Active hosts at $2.10 a month times 159,672
hosts = $335,311.20 a month to operate the entire SETI/BOINC program."

Of those 159,672 user, how many do you suppose are running multiple computers? I have 8 with two having two cpu's each for a total of 10 cpu's. I would bet that the total comuters being used is a fair amount above the 159,672.

---

> It shouldn't be that hard to regulate the temperature of the bed, either.
> Find a thermocouple or other heat sensing device in the temperature range of a
> standard waterbed. Design a circuit / thermostat to control when to pump the
> heated water into the bed. The issue here now becomes, what to do with the
> heated water when the thermostat is saying the watertemp of the bed is too
> high.

If there is an original heater, the regulator could switch in secondary cooling fans by throwing a relay instead of being wired to heating coils. Really depends on the specific design of the regulator.

> Another option is to use fewer CPUs to heat the bed without the above
> mentioned bohemoth and use the waterbed heater to top off the heat, thereby
> still retaining the temperature regulation of the standard waterbed heater.
> This will keep the waterbed heater from running as much but still retain the
> water resoviour (sp? i'm sorry, i'm tired) to cool the CPUs.

Even better.

> Now, the question becomes, how to pipe this all into the house without making
> a total mess. If the PC's are in the bedroom it isn't near as big of a
> problem. but, for us with PC's in other rooms the plumbing aspect becomes a
> nightmare really quick.

Mount the PCs in the pedestal unit, sealed in plastic just in case of a leak. In our solution, there's no worry about occluding fans and such, and all the construction underneath will dampen the noise the pump we're using makes.

[EDIT] If control is really needed in another room, I've successfully attached VGA monitors with 25' extensions on them with no visible degradation of picture, and repeating amps are available. I'm wondering if an IR mouse and keyboard can be repeated by those IR to RF remote control repeaters that Radio Shack sells.

> It shouldn't be that hard to regulate the temperature of the bed, either.
> Find a thermocouple or other heat sensing device in the temperature range of a
> standard waterbed. Design a circuit / thermostat to control when to pump the
> heated water into the bed. The issue here now becomes, what to do with the
> heated water when the thermostat is saying the watertemp of the bed is too
> high.
>
> Another option is to use fewer CPUs to heat the bed without the above
> mentioned bohemoth and use the waterbed heater to top off the heat, thereby
> still retaining the temperature regulation of the standard waterbed heater.
> This will keep the waterbed heater from running as much but still retain the
> water resoviour (sp? i'm sorry, i'm tired) to cool the CPUs.
>
> Now, the question becomes, how to pipe this all into the house without making
> a total mess. If the PC's are in the bedroom it isn't near as big of a
> problem. but, for us with PC's in other rooms the plumbing aspect becomes a
> nightmare really quick.
>
> > Good guesses. Waterbed heaters are generally 100-300W from what I can
> tell.
> > Assuming efficient dissipation into the "bed reservoir" itself, three or
> four
> > PC's should do it. Only problem is most waterbed heaters are temperature
> > regulating. This ability would be lost, so the actual dissipation would
> have
> > to be balanced not to overheat or underheat the bed.
> >
>--------------
this is the kind of thinking we need more of...ways to turn a disadvantage into an advantage...solving multiple problems with one solution...albeit a solution rube goldberg would be proud to have authored!

---

PROUD TO BE TFFE!

It shouldn't be that hard to regulate the temperature of the bed, either. Find a thermocouple or other heat sensing device in the temperature range of a standard waterbed. Design a circuit / thermostat to control when to pump the heated water into the bed. The issue here now becomes, what to do with the heated water when the thermostat is saying the watertemp of the bed is too high.

Another option is to use fewer CPUs to heat the bed without the above mentioned bohemoth and use the waterbed heater to top off the heat, thereby still retaining the temperature regulation of the standard waterbed heater. This will keep the waterbed heater from running as much but still retain the water resoviour (sp? i'm sorry, i'm tired) to cool the CPUs.

Now, the question becomes, how to pipe this all into the house without making a total mess. If the PC's are in the bedroom it isn't near as big of a problem. but, for us with PC's in other rooms the plumbing aspect becomes a nightmare really quick.

> Good guesses. Waterbed heaters are generally 100-300W from what I can tell.
> Assuming efficient dissipation into the "bed reservoir" itself, three or four
> PC's should do it. Only problem is most waterbed heaters are temperature
> regulating. This ability would be lost, so the actual dissipation would have
> to be balanced not to overheat or underheat the bed.
>

---

>
> > Why not bye watercooling for the CPU and use it to heat the waterbed?
> > How many watercoold CPU’s would you need to heat the waterbed?
>
>
> LOL! I love this idea...use the waterbed as a giant radiator for the water
> cooler! As far has how many, that's pretty simple really. We know that we
> get at least 40 watts of heat or so with SETI running; at idle, it's probably
> another 20 or so. So that's 60 watts or so of heat being transferred to the
> waterbed; I'd bet the waterbed heater isn't much more than that. Ultimately it
> would depend on how well the waterbed is insulated (i.e. how big a comforter
> is on there). If you take the comforter off during the day, you could probably
> run 2-3 PC's using the waterbed as the radiator!

Good guesses. Waterbed heaters are generally 100-300W from what I can tell. Assuming efficient dissipation into the "bed reservoir" itself, three or four PC's should do it. Only problem is most waterbed heaters are temperature regulating. This ability would be lost, so the actual dissipation would have to be balanced not to overheat or underheat the bed.

Actually, this idea would solve a problem that led to my worst disaster with a waterbed. I didn't fill the mattress high enough, and in the night I slept in such a way as to press a spot on the mattress down so that top, bottom, liner, and heater vinyl were all making contact. Without water dissipating the heat, the vinyl melted, welded, and ripped, including the lining, and the bed leaked many gallons before I woke up and quickly drained the rest of the bed. This system, heating the water itself, would eliminate the worry about welding the vinyl to the heater.

By the way, heat dissipation in a microchip is generally proportional to the frequency the circuit is running at and how much of the chip is actually running. Any overclocker has seen this since higher speeds need better coolers. Any digitally-run transistor (one that is expected to be running either fully on or fully off at any given time) dissipates the most heat during the time when it's changing from one state to another, hence, assuming transition times for the signal are equal across all frequencies, the higher the frequency a transistor is switched at, the more time it spends in this "resistance region" dissipating energy.

The higher power dissipation for running SETI therefore is probably due to the computer running instructions that cause more of the transistor field on the processor to change states (floating point subprocessor?) than it would otherwise running basically integer and "no operation" instructions 99% of the time.

> Why not bye watercooling for the CPU and use it to heat the waterbed?
> How many watercoold CPU’s would you need to heat the waterbed?


LOL! I love this idea...use the waterbed as a giant radiator for the water cooler! As far has how many, that's pretty simple really. We know that we get at least 40 watts of heat or so with SETI running; at idle, it's probably another 20 or so. So that's 60 watts or so of heat being transferred to the waterbed; I'd bet the waterbed heater isn't much more than that. Ultimately it would depend on how well the waterbed is insulated (i.e. how big a comforter is on there). If you take the comforter off during the day, you could probably run 2-3 PC's using the waterbed as the radiator!

---

> OK, I went and did it. I placed my multimeter in series with the cord and as
> expected the "Clamp On" ammeter wasn't very accurate at that low of a current
> draw.
>
> This puter drew from 830-912 mA (milliamps) from Bios load to the completion
> of windows loading. I shut down Boinc and it dropped to between 630-655 mA.
> This represents a delta (difference) of 228.5 mA (avg)or 27.83 watts.
>
> I'll start boinc. Yep it again went back up to 884mA. It is consistent.
>

How much does the load decrease when you turn the screen off (I'm assuming you have a LCD screen)?

C

---

Join Team MacNN

> Well it wasn´t for the money (shut down the 300 Watt heater of my waterbed and
> sleep in the gastroom, not telling my wife why :-) but just interest in
> bringing the power consumption down,.. anyway started a nice discussion !
> Think i´ll buy the Arctic cooler anyway to make the processor live longer :-)

Hmmmm…

Why not bye watercooling for the CPU and use it to heat the waterbed?

How many watercoold CPU’s would you need to heat the waterbed?

Now the remaining problem to solve is to get rid of the noise from the power supply.

LOL :-))

---

> > 17 'puters.... 40 watts each....
> >
> > I'M BLIND! I'M BLIND
> >
>
> Doing science for SETI and heating your home :D
>
>
>

Exactly thats what I use my PC for, it actually heats my room at night !! Isn´t that neat ? :)

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