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Grant (SSSF)
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Message 2152793 - Posted: 12 Nov 2025, 22:07:42 UTC - in response to Message 2152789.  

San Francisco Muni driver appears to fall asleep before train passengers are jolted
JARRING Videos embedded in article.

San Francisco morning commuters were taken for an unexpectedly wild ride after their train operator appeared to fall asleep at the controls.

Passengers were seen in security video footage obtained by ABC News screaming, with some even jolted from their seats and others slamming into the train's wall, after the operator appeared to doze off.

"I'm sorry, relax, relax, relax -- it wouldn't stop. We didn't crash," the driver said to the visibly shaken passengers after the train car came to a halt, according to the footage.

On Monday, SFMTA released a statement confirming the jolting train was due to "operator fatigue."
No deadman switch???
Grant
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Message 2152795 - Posted: 12 Nov 2025, 22:22:08 UTC - in response to Message 2152793.  

No deadman switch???

I thought it was a requirement on "small commuter trains' here in the USA. But...

According to Wikipedia (not always the most accurate) it says the following:
"Yes, a dead man's switch is typically required on small commuter trains as a safety measure to ensure that the train can be stopped if the operator becomes incapacitated. This device helps prevent accidents by automatically applying the brakes if the operator is unable to maintain control."


I saw no mention of it in the top 1/2 dozen articles I just went through based on a www search for the incident.
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Message 2152798 - Posted: 13 Nov 2025, 1:43:29 UTC

Ah, but what is the interval between switch activation?
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Message 2152801 - Posted: 13 Nov 2025, 4:01:12 UTC - in response to Message 2152798.  
Last modified: 13 Nov 2025, 4:33:07 UTC

Ah, but what is the interval between switch activation?
From what i can find, The vigilance system only becomes active if there are no inputs from the driver to the trains control systems (power or brake controls horns or light switches, windscreen wipers/washers) within a certain time period.

In NSW depending on the train, the driver has anywhere from 2min 1sec to 3min 30sec to activate the Vigilance switch, once it has become active- Except for suburban/underground trains, there it is technically 1 second (in other words, if they haven't made any inputs to the trains control systems in the last 120s since the last input).


For NSW rail the Vigilance system timing varies, between 60 to 90 seconds before the brakes are applied automatically (excepting suburban trains), depending on if it's passenger or freight (and for freight it varies depending on if it's a driver only, or a driver and an observer. Prior to that, there are Visual warnings (40s to 60s), and audible warnings (50-75s).
A switch activation before the Visual warning time is ignored and doesn't reset the clock. Nor does the switch being held down.

Outer suburbs/intercity trains where frequent control input isn't needed, if there has been no such input after 2min, then they have 75-90s (50-90s for freight) to activate the switch before the brakes engage.
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Message 2152854 - Posted: 21 Nov 2025, 8:58:23 UTC - in response to Message 2152335.  

Cargo plane slides off runway in Hong Kong killing two airport staff.

Two Hong Kong airport staff were killed after a cargo plane landing from Dubai skidded off the runway, crashing into their patrol vehicle and pushing it into the sea, local officials said.

The Boeing 747 involved in the deadliest airport incident in the financial hub in more than 25 years also fell into the water on Monday, but all four crew members on board escaped.

The security guards were not breathing when rescued from the water, with one confirmed dead at the scene and another later in hospital, the city’s airport operator said.

Authorities have launched an investigation into the cause of the crash, which took place around 3:50am Hong Kong time (5:50am AEST).

Flight EK9788 was operated by Turkish freight carrier ACT Airlines on behalf of Emirates, said the Dubai-based airline. In a statement it added that the crew were safe and that there had been no cargo on board.

Investigators are looking into runway conditions, the weather and the aircraft and aircrew as part of their examinations, said Steven Yiu, executive director of airport operations at Airport Authority Hong Kong.

Man Ka-chai , a safety investigator with Hong Kong's Air Accident Investigation Authority, confirmed that the air traffic control had directed the flight to land at the airport’s north runway, but had not received any messages requesting help from the pilot......

A preliminary report has been released.

The aircraft was dispatched per the Minimum equipment list with Engine number 4 thrust reverse inoperative.

Upon landing the speed brake lever was extended “with the appropriate crew call.” Reverse thrust was deployed on engines 2 & 3 at approximately 95% of N1. Engine 1 was selected to idle reverse.

The crew received an AUTOBRAKES message on the Engine-indicating and crew-alerting system (EICAS) screen (exact time is not noted in the report), and the autobrake was disarmed, with the crew calling “manual braking.” The captain took control of the aircraft at this time.

At 19:52:30 UTC (03:52:30 local time), Engine number 4 “accelerated to 90% N1 forward thrust.” The selected thrust reversers (ENG 2 & 3) were stowed at 19:52:35.

Engine number 4 continued to accelerate, achieving 106% of N1 at 19:52:36 and reaching 107% of N1 by 19:52:42.

Reverse thrust was applied on Engine number 2 at 19:52:41. Thrust reversers on Engines 1 & 3 were also deployed, but no specific time is noted on the deployment of these in the report.
So it would appear the captain screwed up- forgot that the number 4 reverser was inoperable and spooled up that engine as well as those that had working thrust reversers.
Possible confusion as to what was happening and stowed then re-deployed the working thrust reversers, but number 4 continued to spool up and the aircraft veered off of the runway.
Grant
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Message 2152857 - Posted: 21 Nov 2025, 13:04:27 UTC - in response to Message 2152854.  

... Sadly far too easily done when you have a second "emergency" and only a moment's panic reaction to avert crashing into the brick wall at the end of the runway...


... Yet another problematic cockpit control 'issue' waiting to 'trip up' the pilots?...

Note that everything works fine until there is something non-normal... And then are the pilots given any chance of time and thought to be able to correct the "non-normal"?...


This ain't "rocket science" after over a 100 years of flying!

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Martin
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Message 2152863 - Posted: 21 Nov 2025, 20:26:08 UTC

All Douglas Tri-Jets grounded. We know the pylon failed. This is a repeat so the fix and inspect order wasn't enough.
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Message 2152872 - Posted: 22 Nov 2025, 11:03:51 UTC

Impressive what a detailed, chronological sequence of evidence photos the NTSB was able to collect.


There are cams around everywhere nowadays.
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Message 2153083 - Posted: 5 Dec 2025, 12:52:38 UTC - in response to Message 2152744.  

Following up on the UPS MD-!! crash, we have the lawyers now involved:


"... putting profits before safety...":

CRIMINAL Negligence & Wrongful DEATH! Monster Lawsuit Filed Over UPS MD-11 Kentucky Crash!



Hopefully the lawyers for the lastest crash victims can out-do the Boeing and UPS lawyers.

However, also hopefully the lawyers will not be allowed to interfere with the NTSB investigations...


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Martin
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Message 2153086 - Posted: 5 Dec 2025, 13:51:18 UTC - in response to Message 2153083.  

However, also hopefully the lawyers will not be allowed to interfere with the NTSB investigations...
To interfere is why they were hired. Their discovery demands are intended to destroy the evidence. They are not interested in the truth, they just see fat wallets to pick.
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Message 2153093 - Posted: 5 Dec 2025, 20:53:07 UTC - in response to Message 2153086.  

However, also hopefully the lawyers will not be allowed to interfere with the NTSB investigations...
To interfere is why they were hired. Their discovery demands are intended to destroy the evidence. They are not interested in the truth, they just see fat wallets to pick.
Yep, ambulance chasers.
Zero interest in safety, avoiding similar incidents in the future.
Grant
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Message 2153111 - Posted: 8 Dec 2025, 2:34:15 UTC

No free bananas
Cruise ship delayed off Isle of Wight after container drops bananas in sea as thousands of holidaymakers hit by disruption
... Plantains began appearing on the shoreline at Selsey on Sunday morning, with bananas and avocados also washing ashore.

Authorities have established a cordon around the beach area.

The Maritime and Coastguard Agency issued a stark warning to beachgoers tempted to collect the fruit.

"Those who fail to declare items within 28 days are breaking the law and may have further action taken against them," a spokesman said.

The coastguard confirmed that removing anything washed up from the sea without proper declaration is illegal, regardless of the cargo's apparent value or perishable nature.
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Message 2153117 - Posted: 8 Dec 2025, 16:38:10 UTC

What? The centuries-old right of beachcombing no longer applies in England? How else are the poor coastal inhabitants supposed to supplement their meager income if not by salvaging stranded goods? Especially perishable goods? It's a shame to let them go to waste.
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Message boards : Cafe SETI : Transportation Safety 3


 
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