Transportation Safety 3

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Message 2086451 - Posted: 19 Oct 2021, 13:59:13 UTC - in response to Message 2086423.  

... Not surprising - politics gets in the way..

This is the USA where if we knew about it 40 years ago, we might now just be getting around to forming an advisory board to look at it...

Sounds just like for "Global Warming" - "Climate Change"... Except the politicians have been alerted to the fact since 200 years ago!


All on our only one planet...
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Message 2086486 - Posted: 19 Oct 2021, 22:42:43 UTC

I hope that they find the moron/s that left the car on the tracks and throw the book at them.

Crime scene declared as train derails in Kembla Grange near Wollongong.

There are no pics or footage of the car so what's left of it must be still under the train.

No cheers here, until they find the moron/s.
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Message 2086521 - Posted: 20 Oct 2021, 19:42:26 UTC
Last modified: 20 Oct 2021, 19:42:46 UTC

Lucky. All 21 escape plane crash, only two minor injuries.
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Message 2086621 - Posted: 22 Oct 2021, 5:33:50 UTC

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Message 2086805 - Posted: 24 Oct 2021, 21:43:24 UTC

If there isn't enough shipping problems already.

Emergency zone expanded around burning container ship.

Sixteen people have been evacuated from a container ship that caught fire off the coast of Canada, according to officials.

A fire broke out in 10 containers on the MV Zim Kingston near Victoria, British Columbia, on Saturday, according to the Canadian Coast Guard.

Crews mobilized to the location to rescue crew members and contain the fire. An emergency zone was set up for 2 nautical miles surrounding the ship, and rescue efforts continued into Sunday.

A navigational warning was issued overnight by the Canadian government reporting that the ship was on fire and expelling toxic gas. Two fallen containers are floating in the vicinity of the vessel.

Overnight, the tug Seaspan Raven cooled the hull of the MV Zim Kingston by spraying the hull with cold water. Due to the nature of chemicals on board the container ship, applying water directly to the fire is not an option.
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Message 2087132 - Posted: 30 Oct 2021, 22:24:41 UTC

3 killed, 1 injured after Amtrak train strikes vehicle at South Carolina railroad crossing.

Three people died and one person was injured after an Amtrak train collided with a vehicle at a railroad crossing in South Carolina in the early hours of Saturday, fire officials said.

The collision happened around 2:30 a.m. in Remound Rd., according to the North Charleston Fire Department.

First responders found four people near the vehicle, which was heavily damaged.

Three people were pronounced dead at the scene. One other person was transported to a local hospital. Authorities believe that all four victims were inside the vehicle at the time of the crash.

The train had as many as 500 passengers on board, but no one was injured, The Post and Courier reported.
:-(
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Message 2087177 - Posted: 31 Oct 2021, 20:57:52 UTC

Breaking News - Services halted after two trains crash near Salisbury
A number of passengers have been injured in a crash between two trains near Salisbury.

The collision happened near London Road with police, the fire service, paramedics and British Transport Police at the scene.

About 12 people are thought to have been injured and one of the drivers is believed to be trapped in their cab.

Dorset and Wiltshire Fire and Rescue declared the crash a "major incident" and 50 firefighters are in attendance.
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Message 2087185 - Posted: 31 Oct 2021, 22:03:09 UTC

A Network Rail spokesperson said: "At around 19:00 GMT this evening, the rear carriage of the 17:08 Great Western Railway service from Portsmouth Harbour to Bristol Temple Meads derailed after striking an object on its approach to Salisbury station.

"The derailment knocked out all of the signalling in the area.

"Subsequently, the 17:20 South Western Railway service from London Waterloo to Honiton then collided with the Bristol train.
Will be interesting to see the results of this investigation, particularly the timing.
I'd have though the standard response for a train approaching a signal that was out would be to stop- or at the very least reduce speed (60, 40, 20, 10km/h) to allow a stop within the available visible distance. ie- fail safe. It could very well be that the driver of the second train was already slowing, but didn't have time to stop before hitting the derailed train.
Or it's very likely the there were no other signals since the last green between the other train & the derailed one- the image isn't too clear but it looks like the derailed carriage ended up impinging on the adjacent track and the second train was coming from the opposite direction.
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Message 2087187 - Posted: 31 Oct 2021, 22:34:27 UTC - in response to Message 2087185.  

Looking at the local maps, I'd say that the second train was following the first, travelling in the same direction. The reports that "signalling in the area was knocked out [by the first de-railment]" are worrying - the default response (whether under human or automatic control) should have been to give a 'stop' indication for all movement in the area.

There have been a lot of reports of delays and service disruption on Britain's railways in recent weeks. Some have been attributed to bad weather (which should be well understood by now, in these soggy islands), but I get the feeling that something else has been going on. It may just be a run of the usual mindless vandalism (up to and including the theft of signal cable for the copper content), or there may be a design problem in the latest technological upgrades.
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Message 2087188 - Posted: 31 Oct 2021, 22:58:35 UTC

knocked out? what happens to the automatic system? does that line have an automatic system? is there no indication at all? don't they carry radios?

much to look at.
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Message 2087194 - Posted: 1 Nov 2021, 0:35:54 UTC - in response to Message 2087187.  

Looking at the local maps, I'd say that the second train was following the first, travelling in the same direction. The reports that "signalling in the area was knocked out [by the first de-railment]" are worrying - the default response (whether under human or automatic control) should have been to give a 'stop' indication for all movement in the area.
Physical damage to the data connection, or a fault packet in the data or corrupted data should make the entire section go to all stop, but if there is no power to a signal or group of signals, only those still with power will show the stop signal.
And if there are no lights on the signals i'd expect the default requirement to be for the driver to stop (or at least slow to a speed that allows a stop within the available line of sight/weather conditions), and call network control for further advice.

I think it's going to be a complicated investigation- Why the initial derailment? Was the signalling knocked out (ie no lights showing) and if so why did an accident at that point affect the area, not just the physically local signals. Why did the other train not stop under those circumstances?
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Message 2087210 - Posted: 1 Nov 2021, 8:45:43 UTC

Further news updates and photographs being posted:

Salisbury train crash: Investigation as several hurt

Both trains would have been travelling away from the camera, and entering the tunnel.The first train - that hit an obstruction in or around the tunnel - approached from the left: the second approached from the right, seven or eight minutes later. Google map of the junction.
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Message 2087219 - Posted: 1 Nov 2021, 11:10:56 UTC - in response to Message 2087210.  

Both trains would have been travelling away from the camera, and entering the tunnel.The first train - that hit an obstruction in or around the tunnel - approached from the left: the second approached from the right, seven or eight minutes later. Google map of the junction.
So with the second train following after the first- i guess it comes down to what does "knocking out signalling in the area." actually mean???
To me it implies that all signalling in the area was affected. ie both tracks, in which case the second train should have stopped due to the lack of a green signal.
But if it was was a case of the signalling being taken out only for the left track, then the signals for the right track could well have still been green- so no need for the second train to stop.

Something for the investigation to determine, and to consider- if on a multi track section the signalling for a single track fails- should all signals on all tracks on that section revert to all Red, until an inspection confirms the other lines are safe to use? This could very well be a compelling argument for Yes (if it isn't already the case). And if it is already the case, what was the status of the still functioning signals for the other track and how did the second train come to hit the first?
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Message 2087345 - Posted: 2 Nov 2021, 21:38:43 UTC - in response to Message 2087219.  

Update.
1st train was protected by a red signal. However, 2nd train went past it because of wheel slip. Accident report to be released later this week.
Wheel slip caused SPaD
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Message 2087351 - Posted: 2 Nov 2021, 22:26:46 UTC - in response to Message 2087345.  
Last modified: 2 Nov 2021, 22:27:03 UTC

That will be the preliminary report, which should give an outline of the findings so far, and say what form the final report will take. There will be some additional, significant things to consider such as why the first train derailed, the actions of the two drivers, signallers etc.
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Message 2087357 - Posted: 2 Nov 2021, 22:46:48 UTC - in response to Message 2087351.  
Last modified: 2 Nov 2021, 22:48:44 UTC

That will be the preliminary report, which should give an outline of the findings so far, and say what form the final report will take. There will be some additional, significant things to consider such as why the first train derailed, the actions of the two drivers, signallers etc.
And possible speed restrictions depending on the weather; signal position- ie signals need to be further back from the point they are protecting to allow for increased stopping distance in adverse conditions if the present speed limit remains unchanged.

One query-
The trains involved- they're electric/diesel electric? Do the regenerative braking systems employ ABS at all? I know that ABS actually increases stopping distance significantly on loose gravel. I'm wondering if that might be the case here with the track conditions at the time of the accident?


Thanks for the updates everyone.
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Message 2087358 - Posted: 2 Nov 2021, 23:17:01 UTC

I thouht Halloween was 2 days ago...
A man wearing a Fred Flintstone costume was hit and killed while harassing traffic in Texas early in the morning on Tuesday, Nov. 2, police told media outlets.

Police received calls from several motorists concerned about a costumed man in the middle of O’Connor Road, in northeast San Antonio, swinging at passing cars with what appeared to be a “spear,”
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Message 2087368 - Posted: 3 Nov 2021, 5:22:31 UTC - in response to Message 2087358.  

I thouht Halloween was 2 days ago...
A man wearing a Fred Flintstone costume was hit and killed while harassing traffic in Texas early in the morning on Tuesday, Nov. 2, police told media outlets.

Police received calls from several motorists concerned about a costumed man in the middle of O’Connor Road, in northeast San Antonio, swinging at passing cars with what appeared to be a “spear,”

Fittingly, today is Dia de los Muertos, or Day of the Dead.
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Message 2087376 - Posted: 3 Nov 2021, 8:15:08 UTC - in response to Message 2087357.  

The trains involved- they're electric/diesel electric? Do the regenerative braking systems employ ABS at all? I know that ABS actually increases stopping distance significantly on loose gravel. I'm wondering if that might be the case here with the track conditions at the time of the accident?


The units concerned were both diesel hydraulic(ish). They are fitted with a system called "WSSP", which is meant to reduced wheelslip and spin when they encounter poor adhesion conditions during braking and acceleration. Over the years I was involved in "tuning" a number of these systems and they generally resulted in a reduction in stopping distances and less wheelspin during acceleration. BUT, for some perverse reason a number of classes of units had the "slip" part of the system disabled in emergency braking....
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Message 2087378 - Posted: 3 Nov 2021, 9:17:13 UTC

On a somewhat lighter note:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-latin-america-59136233
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