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David S Send message Joined: 4 Oct 99 Posts: 18352 Credit: 27,761,924 RAC: 12 |
Amtrak's authority was conveyed by the diverging clear signal he (said he) had. The investigators will of course have access to the video camera in the cab, which would easily show if the engineer was lying about the signal. Assuming he was not lying, the signal corresponded to the switch position.Assuming the welders didn't upset something in the signaling system ... Possible, I suppose, assuming they had even done anything yet. (I don't know if they had.) Given the time, weather conditions, and amount of other rail traffic at the time, vandalism is also unlikely.How often is it checked for? By that I mean if someone stole a milepost sign how fast would it get discovered and replaced? And if so did it get replaced at the proper spot! As I said, I haven't listened to the recordings yet, but I'd bet they were given (or should have been) authority from, probably, "Fairview, switch no, to Lisle, switch no," or it may have been worded as "West Absolute Signal Fairview F A I R V I E W to East Absolute Signal Lisle L I S L E." If that is the case, then being within the Lisle plant where they could get hit was beyond the authority. Welders violating a time limit is a possibility, as is a read-back error. I need to listen to more of the audio files. (Presumably, the investigators will listen to the dispatcher's audio recordings, although if they come and ask me, I will provide mine (but they'd be more likely to subpoena them directly from broadcastify.com).)Doesn't BNSF record? Does the cab recording include radio traffic? If orders are given by telephone, are they recorded? Only reason for them to look to a third party for the radio traffic is if the recordings don't match, to see if there was interference or equipment failure. Yes, they record. That's what I meant by "dispatcher's recording." I don't believe the outward facing cameras record audio. There has been a movement toward installing inward facing cameras that would record audio, but I don't know if Amtrak has them. There is a lot to an investigation. You must not assume even the obvious. You have to verify every fact and that every item is functioning as expected.[/quote] Precisely. Which is why I'm emphasizing that I'm speculating and that I have not listened to most of the audio. David Sitting on my butt while others boldly go, Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri. |
David S Send message Joined: 4 Oct 99 Posts: 18352 Credit: 27,761,924 RAC: 12 |
I have listened to some more of the recordings. Going back to three hours before the accident, I do not hear the dispatcher issuing any authority to the welders, so either it happened earlier than that or it happened by phone. I did hear them clearing a couple of authorities at Eola, miles away and over an hour earlier. I'm wondering if they got authority by phone and then got on the track there, then moved down to Lisle. Going forward, immediately when it happened, suburban 1317 was told to hold at Belmont (where they were at the time) and 1320 to hold at Naperville (which they were approaching). Later, 1319 was held at Downers Grove for a bit, then told to back up to Fairview, cross over to Main 3, go down to Belmont, and head east as 9518 (9500 series usually used for additions to the normal schedule). That's as far as I've gotten so far, in about 100 minutes past the accident. David Sitting on my butt while others boldly go, Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 31014 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
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rob smith Send message Joined: 7 Mar 03 Posts: 22538 Credit: 416,307,556 RAC: 380 |
Gary there's something wrong with your link when viewed in the UK - it gives a map of the USA, showing the states and not a lot more :-( Bob Smith Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society) Somewhere in the (un)known Universe? |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 31014 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Gary there's something wrong with your link when viewed in the UK - it gives a map of the USA, showing the states and not a lot more :-( Lets try this http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_AMTRAK_CRASH?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-01-30-11-31-06 They apparently don't like link sharing ... |
rob smith Send message Joined: 7 Mar 03 Posts: 22538 Credit: 416,307,556 RAC: 380 |
Thanks Gary, it makes interesting, if rather light reading. I hope that the report can be read over here, as there are a few things that may be pertinent to the way we do things. Bob Smith Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society) Somewhere in the (un)known Universe? |
David S Send message Joined: 4 Oct 99 Posts: 18352 Credit: 27,761,924 RAC: 12 |
Lets try this http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_AMTRAK_CRASH?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-01-30-11-31-06 It really doesn't say much. It's just a recap with a few victim updates, and a bunch of speculation. David Sitting on my butt while others boldly go, Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 31014 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
2 door or 4 door? BOOZE To answer the next question, police have the murderer in custody. http://abc7.com/news/man-killed-in-suspected-dui-crash-in-pasadena/1211286/ |
Wiggo Send message Joined: 24 Jan 00 Posts: 36854 Credit: 261,360,520 RAC: 489 |
It always gets me why some drivers (in this case a bus driver) just can't realise that their vehicles just won't fit? :-( P.S. he hit the bridge at a fair rate too. :-O Cheers. |
zoom3+1=4 Send message Joined: 30 Nov 03 Posts: 66359 Credit: 55,293,173 RAC: 49 |
Can't tell, too mangled. Savoir-Faire is everywhere! The T1 Trust, T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, America's First HST |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 31014 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Can't tell, too mangled. That's the point. If it is any help it is either 1998 Toyota, a 1992 Toyota, or a 2016 Honda My guess is, it was a 92 Corolla. |
Kevin Olley Send message Joined: 3 Aug 99 Posts: 906 Credit: 261,085,289 RAC: 572 |
It always gets me why some drivers (in this case a bus driver) just can't realise that their vehicles just won't fit? :-( The sign and warning markers on the bridge are big enough to see, a lot better than the standard warnings over here, I just wonder was there any advance warnings before the bridge? In London and a few other places we now have detectors that illuminate additional warning signs placed where an overheight vehicle can divert away from the bridge. We do get the occasional bridge strike that is not the drivers fault, cheap road resurfacing ie just slap a new bit of black stuff down reducing the clearance, but this was not the case here. I have also known of some very dodgy diversions, police re-directing traffic around an accident road closure, on one occasion I was told to follow another lorry through a 7.5 tonne weight limit, when I queried this and the copper asked me why he then got told that I was 3 feet higher and at least 20 tonnes heavier than the other lorrys (TNT) that were using this diversion, luckily there was no problems that time. Coming back to the point, I do not know how some are capable of making this sort of mistake, and I drive for a living - a lot of the time pulling a standard max hight trailor (16 ft high 40 ft long multideck). Kevin |
David S Send message Joined: 4 Oct 99 Posts: 18352 Credit: 27,761,924 RAC: 12 |
Speaking of stupid truck drivers... https://youtu.be/q0obAEPT-3Y David Sitting on my butt while others boldly go, Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri. |
zoom3+1=4 Send message Joined: 30 Nov 03 Posts: 66359 Credit: 55,293,173 RAC: 49 |
Sounds like My nephew with the closed mind, He's a trucker. Savoir-Faire is everywhere! The T1 Trust, T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, America's First HST |
David S Send message Joined: 4 Oct 99 Posts: 18352 Credit: 27,761,924 RAC: 12 |
About two and a half years ago, a CTA L train rolled out of the yard with no one aboard. WGN Radio recently FOIed the surveillance videos of the event and posted a somewhat lurid story that really doesn't say much (although the videos are interesting to watch). Of more interest is the final NTSB report on the incident; it's especially interesting to me as an aspiring volunteer operator of cars that are older but have the same control system. David Sitting on my butt while others boldly go, Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 31014 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
https://www.rt.com/news/336185-boeing-crash-dubai-rostov/ Flydubai flight FZ981 has crashed in the southern Russian city of Rostov-on-Don killing all 62 passengers and crew on board. The flight was en route from Dubai and crashed during its second landing approach amid poor weather conditions. |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24913 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
It's well known that flight safety has been accomplished due to the results of learning from past disasters. Will it take another disaster... |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 31014 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Car vs. F-18. Not your normal accident. http://bigstory.ap.org/article/c76db45d15a24a5c94c368be1dc9a5b5/car-chase-ends-crash-jet-california-naval-base Car chase ends with crash into jet at California Naval base |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 31014 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Speed kills fast http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/general-news/20160330/2-killed-3-hurt-in-pasadena-crash A driver and his passenger died and three others were injured after a car and a sport utility vehicle collided at an intersection Wednesday morning, police said. Crash location is less than 250 feet from a paramedic fire station. They would have responded before the call for help. The location is about 5 minutes trip from a level 1 trauma center. Speed kills fast. I expect the mustang driver tried to beat the traffic signal at a high rate of speed headed for the nearby freeway onramp. I expect the sorento driver seeing the signal change assumed the mustang would obey the law and stop. Haste makes waste. |
betreger Send message Joined: 29 Jun 99 Posts: 11416 Credit: 29,581,041 RAC: 66 |
Darwinian |
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