Fifth Force??

UCI physicists confirm possible discovery of fifth force of nature

Irvine, Calif., August 15, 2016 – Recent findings indicating the possible discovery of a previously unknown subatomic particle may be evidence of a fifth fundamental force of nature, according to a paper published in the journal Physical Review Letters by theoretical physicists at the University of California, Irvine.

“If true, it’s revolutionary,” said Jonathan Feng, professor of physics & astronomy. “For decades, we’ve known of four fundamental forces: gravitation, electromagnetism, and the strong and weak nuclear forces. If confirmed by further experiments, this discovery of a possible fifth force would completely change our understanding of the universe, with consequences for the unification of forces and dark matter.”

https://news.uci.edu/research/uci-physicists-confirm-possible-discovery-of-fifth-force-of-nature/

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Dark matter clumps may have punched through star stream

A one-two punch of dark matter may have knocked holes in a stream of stars out past the edge of the Milky Way. If confirmed, these would be the smallest clumps of dark matter we have ever detected.

“Potentially, this stream could allow us to probe for the first time how dark matter behaves on a small scale,” says Sergey Koposov at the University of Cambridge.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2105275-dark-matter-clumps-may-have-punched-through-star-stream/

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This whole thing with dark matter/dark energy making up over 80% of the universe opens up a lot of possibilities regarding what the nature of that portion of the universe is. Possibilities include parallel universes. additional dimensions and other such things, but also it seems to open up the possibility of things like an afterlife with or without a deity. I certainly don't believe in any traditional concept of heaven or hell but I can entertain the thought of there being a place where our spirits move to after dying.

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

This whole thing with dark matter/dark energy making up over 80% of the universe opens up a lot of possibilities regarding what the nature of that portion of the universe is. Possibilities include parallel universes. additional dimensions and other such things, but also it seems to open up the possibility of things like an afterlife with or without a deity. I certainly don't believe in any traditional concept of heaven or hell but I can entertain the thought of there being a place where our spirits move to after dying.

Interesting points you make, Bob. I have been pondering over the existence of anti-dark matter and the role it would play in the evolution of our universe.

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rOZZ
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As I have said repeatedly on these forums. Let's send a probe and bring some of it back--if it is infact "Matter"

As I have said repeatedly on these forums. Let's send a probe and bring some of it back--if it is infact "Matter"

As I recall, dark matter and energy is supposed to be all around us but impossible to see or detect with equipment at our disposal. How convenient. Otherwise they would have to go back to page one and reinvent physics.

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

As I have said repeatedly on these forums. Let's send a probe and bring some of it back--if it is infact "Matter"

As I recall, dark matter and energy is supposed to be all around us but impossible to see or detect with equipment at our disposal. How convenient. Otherwise they would have to go back to page one and reinvent physics.

4% of the universe is made out of matter as we know it. Something must fill up the rest of it. A lot of research has been done already on dark matter and dark energy. We know they exist and they have gotten a specified name. We have a broad knowledge already, thanx to research and math of course.

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rOZZ
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La Repubblica paper says that a galaxy made up from dark matter has been found,called Dragonfly 44, at 300 millions light years in the Berenix Coma constellation. Since La Repubblica is not a scientific journal and also calls it antimatter instead of dark matter, I would wait for confirmation. The discovery has been submitted to "Astrophysical Journal Letters" by Pieter Van Dokkum, Yale University, and Roberto Abraham, Toronto University.
Tullio

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Pieter van Dokkum. Hmmm...

Yale Professor and chair of Astronomy Pieter van Dokkum photographs and studies dragonflies as an avocation. van Dokkum has just published at book of his photographs and reflections on dragonflies with Yale University Press: "Dragonflies: Magnificent Creatures of Water, Air, and Land."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPIkTZ4xGP4

4% of the universe is made out of matter as we know it. Something must fill up the rest of it.

I've seen it as "The universe should be a certain shape. To fit that shape, the bits we know about fills 4%. What's the rest?"

A lot of research has been done already on dark matter and dark energy.

Which means nothing we've found says an outright "NO" on the subject.

We know they exist and they have gotten a specified name.

We don't know 'they' exist. We just have a lot of pictures that can be interpreted
And 'a specified name'? Neverland is a name that represents a lot, in terms of stories - doesn't mean it exists in terms of research.

We have a broad knowledge already, thanx to research and math of course.

Mostly math: we think 'x', we found 'y', we want to find z where x-y=z.

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Does this, Universe has two trillion more galaxies than previously thought, go someway to explain missing matter.

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Sometimes I think that what we can see is just one small pie slice sliver of the entire universe. I can't think of a better way to explain my thought.

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

Was there a story about an elephant described by blind men? I think we are all blind. God, for inscrutable reasons, made all of us blind (Emilio Segre', on the missed discovery of nuclear fission by the Rome Fermi Group).
Tullio

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New study claims dark matter may not exist.
https://www.insidescience.org/news/new-findings-muddy-understanding-dark-matter

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

Well, It looks like my old friend and Irish Philosopher, Johnny Guinness, may have been right all along.

My own crackpot theory is that we are rotating in perhaps an unseen dimension and that explains the flying apart of galaxies.

However, if we can not capture and examine dark matter, then I think we should do the following:

Carefully write down the math for why we think that there is dark matter and dark energy.
Try to find alternative explanations for the perceived phenomena.

Revisit: Tired light (Fritz Zwicky) and Neutrino Mass.

Also I have always been bothered by statements about far far away galaxies since what we are seeing goes back towards the beginning of time and the Universe. I don't see any allowance in thinking for this fact with all the statements about the galaxies rushing faster the further out that they are. This would have been an era when gravity did not have enough time to slow the expansion from the big bang and the putative inflation.

machos. strings have mass.

And what proof do you have that these things even exist?

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

There are many candidate theories to what dark matter is.
These are among them but now it's looks like it has boiled to only two.
Anti matter. Not.
Neutrinos. Not.
Sterile neutrinos. Could be.
MACHOs. Not. But white dwarfs could be about 15% of the dark matter.
Primordinal black holes. Possible.
WIMPZILLAs. Not.
WIMPs. More possible.
Axions. More possible.

http://www.svtplay.se/video/11165417/vetenskapsstudion/vetenskapsstudion-sasong-1-avsnitt-8:05:40:00

plato (maybe aristotle) mentioned atoms thousands of years ago and we were not able to measure them until the past century. some other greeks had the idea that the universe is continuous (superstring theory). perhaps they were both correct: the universe itself has mass, the difference lies in density. sometimes you just have a hunch.

and this would also explain "the force"