Paris attack

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Message 1742554 - Posted: 16 Nov 2015, 15:20:59 UTC - in response to Message 1742551.  

Until a Strategic Strategy to Defeat them, is implemented.

To do that you would need to take away the reason that people join IS/ISIS/ISIL in the first place. With no members they would simply cease to exist. So how are you going to implement that then?

That can also take in political parties where much of the damage is being done in the first place. The difference being that after they have caused damage they can be voted out, only for the next mob to do something similar.

When people try that with weapons...

...btw, is it 2016AD already :-)
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Message 1742566 - Posted: 16 Nov 2015, 15:39:11 UTC - in response to Message 1742552.  
Last modified: 16 Nov 2015, 15:40:15 UTC

To my knowledge, the passport is yet to be verified as genuine. It was not in direct possession of the person who blew themselves up, but "found nearby". Is that not a perfect ISIL propaganda ploy? Make sure it appears in the refugee records, get it to the scene of an atrocity, place it, and let your enemy do the work of recruiting the next wave of homegrown supporters for you.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/15/paris-attacks-fake-passport-raises-questions-over-bombers-identities
IS earn money on false passports
1,200 cases of counterfeit passports, stamps and fingerprints investigated at the Swedish Immigration Service every week.
Of those found to 5 percent to be inauthentic. But according to the Swedish Migration Board, many more to be counterfeit, as some are so well made that the experts did not discover them.
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Message 1742576 - Posted: 16 Nov 2015, 16:20:09 UTC - in response to Message 1742530.  

This Paris attack is a very bad business indeed, and the solidarity of the world With France and the French people is good to see. But as Clyde says, "Now the real solution will be necessary".

I heard someone on the bus yesterday saying why don't we get an International task force together and do to Syria what we did to Iraq. I not convinced that is the right answer. But then again the talking can only go on for so long BBC despite Cameron saying "he is prepared to make compromises with Russia in order to defeat the Islamic State group".

What is encouraging is to note that "Number 10 says UK security services disrupted seven attacks this year, including one in the last month". If they are able to say that much openly, there must be other successes and ongoing work they can't talk about. But it will be the one that they don't stop that does the real damage. But it is getting very close to home to the UK and will necessarily focus minds. Some people decry COBRA as a talking shop, when it is anything but.

Senior government officials and heads of the armed services get given the latest National and International intelligence. If deployment is needed it will de done as a result. If the threat level is raised it will be done as a result, with the National Security Council co-ordinating it all.

We all know what the Paris attack was in response to, the fact that this group can co-ordinate and carry out something like this at such short notice, I find worrying in the extreme. With so many refugees travelling around the EU at the moment it is all to easy to blend in.

Blame the refugees, cos it wuz them wot dun it, right?

Good to see you back, your profile suggested you weren't going to be posting for a while, another careless error?

That's what Far Righties do, blame the minority, in WWII Europe it was the Jews, today it's the Muslims, tomorrow? Who knows..
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Message 1742577 - Posted: 16 Nov 2015, 16:22:46 UTC - in response to Message 1742553.  

Until a Strategic Strategy to Defeat them, is implemented.

To do that you would need to take away the reason that people join IS/ISIS/ISIL in the first place. With no members they would simply cease to exist. So how are you going to implement that then?

Why do you believe that The Nazi, KKK, Jihadists will cease to exist?

When did we ever try to 'eliminate' the Nazi, KKK, Jihadist Psychosis.

Successful wars do not, nor have ever, eliminated any Fanatical Religious or Secular Ideology.

Those Psychotic's, joining The Jihadists, The Nazis, et al. Are only joining whatever organization, group, ideology, religion, which will assist them in their internal evil needs. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Parts of Europe after WWII had a De-NAZIfication program, the US didn't.
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Message 1742621 - Posted: 16 Nov 2015, 18:42:08 UTC - in response to Message 1742460.  

Now the real solution will be necessary.


The final solution?



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Message 1742623 - Posted: 16 Nov 2015, 18:46:39 UTC - in response to Message 1742621.  

Now the real solution will be necessary.


The final solution?

That would be The Donald's answer. And a lot of other radicals and angry old men who see their privilege going away.
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Message 1742628 - Posted: 16 Nov 2015, 19:33:22 UTC

The really sad thing is that there is likely no workable solution to the overall problem. Weapons are too easy to get and most any halfway intelligent high school student with an internet connection can make an IED.
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Message 1742631 - Posted: 16 Nov 2015, 19:58:55 UTC - in response to Message 1742630.  

Check up on history, Neville Chamberlain negotiated.
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Message 1742789 - Posted: 17 Nov 2015, 7:54:20 UTC - in response to Message 1742631.  

Check up on history, Neville Chamberlain negotiated.

Yeah and where did that leave England, not to mention the rest of the world.
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Message 1742829 - Posted: 17 Nov 2015, 12:56:08 UTC

Washington Post says From 2004 to 2014, over 2,000 terror suspects legally purchased guns in the United States

Given France's strict gun laws, the terrorists who attacked Paris on Friday may have turned to black market sources for the weapons they used. But in the United States, known and suspected terrorists are allowed to purchase firearms under federal law.

"Membership in a terrorist organization does not prohibit a person from possessing firearms or explosives under current federal law," the Government Accountability Office concluded in 2010. The law prohibits felons, fugitives, drug addicts and domestic abusers from purchasing a firearm in the United States. But people on the FBI's consolidated terrorist watchlist — typically placed there when there is "reasonable suspicion" that they are a known or suspected terrorist — can freely purchase handguns or assault-style rifles.

And, as the GAO found, a number of them do: Between 2004 and 2014, suspected terrorists attempted to purchase guns from American dealers at least 2,233 times. And in 2,043 of those cases — 91 percent of the time — they succeeded. There are about 700,000 people on the watch-list — a point that civil libertarians have made to underscore that many on the list may be family members or acquaintances of people with potential terrorist connections.
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Message 1742830 - Posted: 17 Nov 2015, 12:57:02 UTC
Last modified: 17 Nov 2015, 13:02:20 UTC

French Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian has asked his ministerial colleagues in the EU for help with the country's military operations abroad, as well as support in the struggle against extremist movement IS in Syria, Iraq and African countries.
- France can not act alone in these areas, Le Drian said during the meeting in Brussels, reports the AFP news agency.

I was held hostage by Isis. They fear our unity more than our airstrikes
At the moment there is no political road map and no plan to engage the Arab Sunni community. Isis will collapse, but politics will make that happen. In the meantime there is much we can achieve in the aftermath of this atrocity, and the key is strong hearts and resilience, for that is what they fear. I know them: bombing they expect. What they fear is unity.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/16/isis-bombs-hostage-syria-islamic-state-paris-attacks?CMP=share_btn_tw
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Message 1742840 - Posted: 17 Nov 2015, 14:14:19 UTC - in response to Message 1742836.  
Last modified: 17 Nov 2015, 14:24:01 UTC

Washington Post says From 2004 to 2014, over 2,000 terror suspects legally purchased guns in the United States

The guns and bombs used, are being used, will be used in Europe, are legal?

Difference?

Ask the murdered in Paris.

In Europe it's more easy to buy illegal weapons then legal ones.
And bombs you make yourself as they did in Belgium before the Paris attack.
And ISIS Has Help Desk for Terrorists Staffed Around the Clock.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/paris-terror-attacks/isis-has-help-desk-terrorists-staffed-around-clock-n464391
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Message 1742858 - Posted: 17 Nov 2015, 14:55:52 UTC - in response to Message 1742829.  

Washington Post says From 2004 to 2014, over 2,000 terror suspects legally purchased guns in the United States

Given France's strict gun laws, the terrorists who attacked Paris on Friday may have turned to black market sources for the weapons they used. But in the United States, known and suspected terrorists are allowed to purchase firearms under federal law.

"Membership in a terrorist organization does not prohibit a person from possessing firearms or explosives under current federal law," the Government Accountability Office concluded in 2010. The law prohibits felons, fugitives, drug addicts and domestic abusers from purchasing a firearm in the United States. But people on the FBI's consolidated terrorist watchlist — typically placed there when there is "reasonable suspicion" that they are a known or suspected terrorist — can freely purchase handguns or assault-style rifles.

And, as the GAO found, a number of them do: Between 2004 and 2014, suspected terrorists attempted to purchase guns from American dealers at least 2,233 times. And in 2,043 of those cases — 91 percent of the time — they succeeded. There are about 700,000 people on the watch-list — a point that civil libertarians have made to underscore that many on the list may be family members or acquaintances of people with potential terrorist connections.

Until you are a convict you have your rights. It must be a great uplifting freedom to know that you live where a typo can strip you of your rights.

Yes, America has a crazy control problem. Membership in a terror organization should be a mental disease or defect.
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Message 1742863 - Posted: 17 Nov 2015, 15:09:13 UTC - in response to Message 1742819.  

Hi Bob, well exactly!

At Munich, in 1938, France and Britain agreed to give Hitler the Sudetenland. Chamberlain waves 'a piece of paper' with Hitler's statement that he does not want to go to war. In 1939, Czechoslovakia was invaded, then later in 1939 Poland was invaded. In September 1939 war was declared upon Germany.

Chamberlain was duped and lied to, but at the time in 1938 the British people wanted peace - they would not have supported a war then. Chamberlain wanted a strong Germany to serve as a barrier against expansion by communist Russia. Britain's armed forces were also not ready for a war, and they could not have helped Czechoslovakia anyway if they had been.

The situation today with ISIS is quite different from back then.

Appeasemet is just that. Where is the difference? Our forces cut to the bone, police numbers reduced...

...I see further down your attack on Clyde, your B/S equals his if not worse.
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Message 1742867 - Posted: 17 Nov 2015, 15:17:01 UTC - in response to Message 1742858.  

Membership in a terror organization should be a mental disease or defect.

I think its a problem with some terror organizations.
IS is also a religious organization.
Excluding members of religious organizations are unconstitutional.
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Message 1742901 - Posted: 17 Nov 2015, 16:15:12 UTC - in response to Message 1742877.  

I don't see anything funny about the Paris attack. Perhaps you could enlighten me upon what I appear have missed. We laugh at Janne, not with him.

Who are we?
What have I to do with the Paris attacks?
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Message 1742904 - Posted: 17 Nov 2015, 16:23:25 UTC - in response to Message 1742901.  

I don't see anything funny about the Paris attack. Perhaps you could enlighten me upon what I appear have missed. We laugh at Janne, not with him.

Who are we?
What have I to do with the Paris attacks?

Ignore "Professor S" Janne, he likes throwing out garbage but as seen too many times, when forced to pick it up, throws schoolboy tandrums. Just laugh at him & move on :-)
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Message 1742909 - Posted: 17 Nov 2015, 16:35:06 UTC

Please try to keep the posts about the subject, and not about each other.
The mind is a weird and mysterious place
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Message 1742914 - Posted: 17 Nov 2015, 16:51:47 UTC - in response to Message 1742865.  

Membership in a terror organization should be a mental disease or defect.

Ummm Gary it is so much more than that. Most terror organisations are religion based in some way, therefore we are talking extremist fanatics that have been indoctrinated, probably since birth, or had their heads turned at an impressionable age. It is not fair to count all peaceful religious extremists as being mentally ill. We Get the JW's around here, yes they are extreme with their views, but not escaped from the funny farm!

Chriis, it isn't the religion. The terrorism mental disease or defect is the belief that they can force others to think and do as they preach. Although belief in a mythical man in the sky is likely a serious mental problem, it doesn't have to be used, yet, to prevent gun sales. Although it if prevented the right wing extremist christians in this country from arming themselves it would be a good thing.

America has a crazy control problem.
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Message 1742916 - Posted: 17 Nov 2015, 16:55:51 UTC - in response to Message 1742909.  

Please try to keep the posts about the subject, and not about each other.

Sadly, that is the topic Gordon. How can those who attack each other sprout B/S about groups like IS?

Before one can debate sensibly about terrorism, one should be able to debate amongst oneselves without the need to sprout B/S or attack others because their views are alien to theirs.

While that continues worldwide...
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