That tired old line has become threadworn and the logic disproven earlier in this thread,

We have banned claymore mines, sawed off shot guns and fully automatic guns and no second amendment rights were infringed.

Are you sure they are banned? Maybe you better do a bit of research.

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Tell Dat to Victim of Cartridge 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8.9. And As Victim of Non-Existent Cartridge(due to Your New Laws) Escapes Slaughter from Cartridge 10,11,12,13,14,15, Shooter Slaps in Mag #2 or Pulls 2nd Gun, and Victim of Cartridge 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 falls to Ground.

Yeah, Explain to The Lucky Ones how YOU SAVED THEM when YOU POLITICIZED and Changed Laws to SAVE THEM and Kill The Others. All Because A Couple Seconds Passed and Butterfly Wings Flapped and Fates Changed.

You Lefties Are Some Kind of Funny.

Only One Way We Get Saved. All of U S.

One Big Ass Rock Hits The Earth.

And All Your Figurin', Speechifying, and DUMB ASS LAWS Goes To SHAT.

Got 'it'. GOoD.

Yup Yep fO ShO

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

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ES99, treatment of mental illness isn't always, here take this pill. Treatment frequently includes a locked door. Or would you only be satisfied with some perfect utopia? In which case you can stop posting your dreams and annoying others. And we haven't even touched on the druggies.

Don't be rude.

Then engage your brain, if they are locked up then they aren't out shooting up the countryside.

It is clear that I know more about it than you. Even when treatment needs a locked door those doors are rarely ever locked permanently, nor should they be.

As a libertarian you should understand that.

Treatment ends when they are cured; or are you one who will throw still ill people on the streets? They do that in the USA already. That is the problem.

It would help if HIPAA was waved for mental illness and mandatory reporting to the gun registration database so sales could be prevented by the gun control (registration) laws already in force.

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And who will enforce that ban on the criminals who already ignore gun laws? Ammunition and Magazine limits and bans only reduce the honest law abiding citizens' ability to defend against those thugs who will still possess illegal items as they always have.
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Thirsty that is a straw man argument. Your logic could be applied against fully auto weapons, clay mores or sawed off shot guns. The law worked there why are semi autos different?

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We have banned claymore mines, sawed off shot guns and fully automatic guns and no second amendment rights were infringed.

Are you sure they are banned? Maybe you better do a bit of research.

Well effectively they have for the general populace. Just try to buy a clay more or a 155mm howitzer much less a fully functional tank.

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Since you obviously don't like responses you've heard before, what's your solution?

Round up the talk radio hosts and put them in a hermetically sealed room. That might do wonders lowering the violence level.

That would require making an association between far left or far right (inclusive or) to violent acts. (Of course, one of us here claims there is no difference. But a West Point study [I think it was a WP study] points to a 400% increase in more violence from the far right in the last 15-20 years. I wonder if that excludes the Bush years? Also, a colleague of mine claimed a few months ago that many recent shooting sprees were by leftists but, when pushed, could not name a single incident.]

I was under the impression that all the left radio talk hosts had lost their programs and only right to violent extremist talk hosts were on the air.

How do you feel about the push by other Libertarians to legalize pot or prostitution to reduce violence (gun or otherwise)?

In favor. Only condition is to have your ID marked to show a DNR so society won't waste resources on you when you OD. Never understood the issue with prostitution. Secondary effects brought on by it being illegal, that I get. Let your fingers do the walking through the red light pages.

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Just try to buy a clay more or a 155mm howitzer much less a fully functional tank.

My friend Craig has a few:

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Yesterday in Sydney a lone gunman decided to try and kill the police at there head quarters in Sydney a 15 year old shot and killed a I.T specialist that work at the head quarters .

Facts are still being collected but the boy was shot and killed by one of the officers that is in charge or security at that building .

PPl are saying up 8 shots where fired .

Now i ask you what would have happen'd if this young boy had been able to get his hands on a assault rifle and not just a hand gun ......

Yes it is sounding like a terrorist attack , lone wolf type , now is it not a coinsedence that both shootings have occured on the same days .

And to think a 15 year old in England has be sentenced to life for encouraging a 18 year old to kill Police on ANZAC Day here

So you American like your guns good then more and more of you will die as it's so easy to get the type of weapons that MASS KILL at a time when we are at war .

what was that movie called umm yes DUMB and DUMBER

Now tell me again that Gun control does not work
America 10 victims and 1 terrorist
Australia 1 victim and 1 terrorist

gun control does not work , yeh right !!!!, if you say so iddiots

here's the link to what happen'd

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2015/10/02/17/01/two-feared-shot-in-parramatta-in-sydney-s-west

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And where(in your anti-gun utopia) did this 15 year old boy(yet old enough to kill) get even a handgun? Yeah Gun Control works, ask the 1700 shooting victims so far this year in Obamagod's hometown, gun locked down Chicago if Gun Control works.

Ask that IT specialist if your Gun Control saved his life, oh, he can't answer can he?

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"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

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ES99, treatment of mental illness isn't always, here take this pill. Treatment frequently includes a locked door. Or would you only be satisfied with some perfect utopia? In which case you can stop posting your dreams and annoying others. And we haven't even touched on the druggies.

Don't be rude.

Then engage your brain, if they are locked up then they aren't out shooting up the countryside.

I said don't be rude and I meant it. You can make your point without being insulting.

You are assuming that once mentally ill people are 'cured' they stay 'cured' whereas the reality is they often go in and out of institutions. It is you who are living in fantasy land where people are either permanently cured or permanently mad.

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Reality Internet Personality

Does anyone else think that all of the first person shoot-em-up electronic games might over a long period of time desensitize a young person with a borderline sense of right and wrong to the point where life is just an extension of the game?

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

Your are a iddiot arn't you can't you understand

Terrorist attack in your country killed 10 times more than here so gun control does work .

it's not gun banning but Control unlike your country where it's out of control

As for where did he get the gun well there still trying to figure that out .

But look to your own statements to figure it out . The whole point of Gun Control is not to get rid of guns but to Limit the damage but you just don't get that so i hope the next school mass murder has one of your own relo's there just to teach you a lesson on why it's so dam dangerous to have military weapons amongst the average joe

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Does anyone else think that all of the first person shoot-em-up electronic games might over a long period of time desensitize a young person with a borderline sense of right and wrong to the point where life is just an extension of the game?

Bob recent research suggests that it's actually the other way around and playing the first person shoot them up's makes people less violent as the game let's them go so far over there own ethics that they become offended that they could get off on the violence .

And then they become advocates against violence so no is the answer

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[deleted]

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Sorry, but you can go to just about any inner-city, and in a few minutes be the proud owner of a firearm that is NOT legal to buy, sell, use, or possess in the USA outside of extremely controlled circumstances. These fully-automatic military grade firearms are favorites of a number of criminal gangs in the USA. They are why the police here are increasingly going to military weaponry as well. They are outgunned by the thugs. And you can get these, if you are willing to commit a crime, on street-corners, just like you can get other illegal things, such as illegal drugs like heroin, or the services of a prostitute.

No, those guns come from gun shows and 'private sales' outside the inner city in more rural white areas. White guys in pick-up trucks bring the guns down from I-70 into our neighborhood. Even police in their biker gangs are running guns into North St Louis.

Don't try and place all the blame on the inner city and stop using the racist code-word of 'thug'. The cops are in NO way out gunned around here as I had automatic weapons pointed at me just during a peaceful march on a Sunday in August 2014 down on West Florissant.

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Does anybody in here know the real reason the 2nd amendment was part of the deal in ratifying our constitution? No? I didn't think so...

Most, except perhaps Guy.

It exists because the Federal Government was not allowed to have a standing army. Of course they do now so the compelling reason for the second is gone.

Your answer for the second is actually for why there was no standing army. Remember second is an amendment, or afterthought, when people realized what the original did or failed to do.

These amendments had their first introduction during the drafting of the constitution on September 12th during the Constitutional Convention. It was no 'afterthought' and was part of the agenda of the Anti-Federalists and the rejection of those amendments in that first vote endangered the entire acceptance of the Constitution. The only way the Constitution was ratified in Massachusetts was because Samuel Adams and John Hancock tied the Anti-Federalist amendment process to ratification in the Massachusetts Compromise. Virginia and New York also refused to ratify the Constitution unless there was an Amendment process after ratification while Rhode Island and North Carolina flatly refused to ratify because the Amendments didn't come first.

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ES99, treatment of mental illness isn't always, here take this pill. Treatment frequently includes a locked door. Or would you only be satisfied with some perfect utopia? In which case you can stop posting your dreams and annoying others. And we haven't even touched on the druggies.

Don't be rude.

Then engage your brain, if they are locked up then they aren't out shooting up the countryside.

I said don't be rude and I meant it. You can make your point without being insulting.

You are assuming that once mentally ill people are 'cured' they stay 'cured' whereas the reality is they often go in and out of institutions. It is you who are living in fantasy land where people are either permanently cured or permanently mad.

Many of the perpetrators are Borderline or Anti-Social personality disorders which need DB therapy for years and the U.S. refuses to even allow Mindfulness into the public school system without a fight from the Christian base. We don't even have universal screening for BPD or ASPD in the school systems.
Medications are not the best treatment option for these conditions; behavioral modification and emotional training are the go to treatments.

If this shooter's personality flaw had been recognized earlier and he had received treatment to deal with his emotions (such as access to DBT or Mindfulness training) his victims would be alive and he'd not died a hate-filled virgin.

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Yes, mass shooting incidents are heart-rendingly sad. But, its mostly an issue to be handled by Crazy Control, and Criminal Control, rather than Gun Control. Why take away the law-abiding citizen's only real means of defense from these thugs and nutjobs? Just get rid of the thugs and nutjobs.

I strongly object to your use of the word 'nutjobs' when describing people with mental health problems. Its needlessly stigmatizing, counterproductive and also a little irrelevant to this discussion.

The problem of gun violence isn't because of people with mental health issues, indeed statistically people with mental health issues are far more likely to be the victim of violence than being the perpetrator. And that shouldn't be so surprising, given that you and with you millions of other people describe people as 'nutjobs' when they have mental health issues. The stigma of mental health issues you perpetuate disempowers people with mental health issues and makes them easier targets for violence. Further proof of this is also found in the part of your post suggesting that America should make it easier to deny fundamental civil rights and freedoms to people who are believed to mentally ill as if they are all mass murderers waiting to happen.

Furthermore, the thing here is that its only a mental health problem when a white person turns into a spree shooter. If its a Muslim, hes a terrorist hell bent on destroying America, if its a black guy its a thug raised in a 'culture of violence' caused by 'broken homes' which 'black leadership should start addressing'. This talk about mental health is little more than the racist notion that white people are naturally incapable of acts of mass violence unless their brain is somehow broken, while with everyone else its because non white people are just naturally violent and hateful.

In short, addressing the failing mental health of America is not going to solve this. And as Obama noted, the US isn't the only country in the world with people who have mental health issues, but it is pretty much the only country in the world where spree shootings like this happen on such a regular basis. So, stop talking about mental health as if thats going to solve anything because its not, its just a distraction from your real problem, namely the easy availability of guns to literally everyone who wants one.