Chris S,
You, sir, are HARD to figure out sometimes.

In post 1716572 you seemingly diss 'elected representatives' ability to make decisions:

The People do not directly elect the President (and Vice President), but their Elected Representatives DO.

A very very good point Major. And that is the basis of what is wrong about the USA political system.

But in post 1716859 you say the following:

Detroit has already declared bankruptcy.

Yes it has. I never ever thought I would see the day that cities declared bankruptcy. Companies do it all the time, but whole cities? That is what comes of letting Mayors run them instead of elected Councils with Councillors.

What exactly are you objecting to here?

Detroit *HAS* a City Council.

Now, maybe you are objecting to Detroit having a 'strong mayor' variation of the Mayor-Council form of City Government. This form of Government is not only the most commonly used form by large cities in the USA, but is also the closest in structure to the Federal Government. The main difference being that in this form, the Mayor (who runs the Executive Branch of the City Government) is *DIRECTLY* elected by the People in Detroit, and you make it plain that you object to the US President *NOT* being directly elected by the People in the USA.

The other main form of city government in the USA is the 'Council-Manager' form. In this form, most commonly used in smaller cities, the elected Council hires/appoints a Manager to run the city for them. The City Manager, who then runs the city, is NOT an elected position.

Also in use is the 'weak Mayor' variation of the Mayor-Council form where the Mayor is merely the Presiding Officer during the City Council meetings, and the 'City Commission' form of City Government where the various city council members each take responsibility for a specific city department and run it.

'Weak Mayor' is a form somewhere in between 'Strong Mayor' and 'Council-Manager' forms, and 'City Commission' was invented in Galveston, TX as a response to the devastating natural Disaster of the Galveston Hurricane of 1900 as a way of streamlining getting the city up and functioning again. While 'City Commission' showed some level of popularity (especially in Texas) in the past, it has fallen out of favor and is currently really used by only one city of note, Portland Oregon.

So forgive me if I do not understand what you are getting at here.

On the one hand, you condemn Elected Officials making important decisions yet on the other hand you demand it. I am confused. Can you please explain your position a little further??

As to City Bankruptcy, there was one that ALMOST happened 40 years ago. Quite famous in fact.

On Oct. 17th, 1975, New York City was out of money, and had no way to pay debt service due later that day. Mayor Beame had the bankruptcy all set up, all awaiting his word to 'go'. Last minute negotiations with creditors, the State of New York, and a few other interested parties averted the crisis.

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/25/when-new-york-teetered-on-the-brink-of-bankruptcy/


Ahh... Connections... Connections...

Nelson Rockefeller (grandson of Standard Oil founder John Rockefeller Sr) was perhaps the last hurrah of the liberal wing of the Republican Party (yes, they used to exist before fading away after the conservative Goldwater coup).

Nelson Rockefeller was Governor of New York State from 1959 to 1973. During this time Rockefeller started many social programs that in large part led to New York City's bankruptcy crisis in 1975.

Nelson Rockefeller was Vice President under Ford during the crisis, when Ford famously supposedly told NYC to 'drop dead'.

Nelson Rockefeller was the subject of the most famously iconic photo of Presidential Election Politics in the USA... EVER... It was taken during a Ford Campaign Event at Binghamton University in New York in 1976 when Rockefeller was still Vice President.

Warning: Contains Rude Gesture.

The Photo

Connections, connections.

But it has to be said that in the UK, our Elected Representatives make our laws, unless there is a public referendum.

Referendums is what has destroyed California. Don't allow them! You have been warned.

Gary, you are so right on this one.

Between Howard Jarvis' Prop 13 which effectively neutered California's ability to tax property, and all the spending mandated in California by many many various propositions... You guys be screwed.

But it has to be said that in the UK, our Elected Representatives make our laws, unless there is a public referendum.

Referendums is what has destroyed California. Don't allow them! You have been warned.

Gary, you are so right on this one.

Between Howard Jarvis' Prop 13 which effectively neutered California's ability to tax property, and all the spending mandated in California by many many various propositions... You guys be screwed.

Major it is spreading around the country. Society wants and needs things and yet the masses aren't willing to pay for their basic needs, such as roads, schools, healthcare.

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But it has to be said that in the UK, our Elected Representatives make our laws, unless there is a public referendum.

Referendums is what has destroyed California. Don't allow them! You have been warned.

Gary, you are so right on this one.

Between Howard Jarvis' Prop 13 which effectively neutered California's ability to tax property, and all the spending mandated in California by many many various propositions... You guys be screwed.

Major it is spreading around the country. Society wants and needs things and yet the masses aren't willing to pay for their basic needs, such as roads, schools, healthcare.

Not only your country.
Society wants and needs infrastructure, educatation, helthcare and care of the eldery and the young ones.
Today in my country and certainly other countries it is low priority.
And I'm going to be a senior citizen soon.
Thank you very much.

But it has to be said that in the UK, our Elected Representatives make our laws, unless there is a public referendum.

Referendums is what has destroyed California. Don't allow them! You have been warned.

Gary, you are so right on this one.

Between Howard Jarvis' Prop 13 which effectively neutered California's ability to tax property, and all the spending mandated in California by many many various propositions... You guys be screwed.

Major it is spreading around the country. Society wants and needs things and yet the masses aren't willing to pay for their basic needs, such as roads, schools, healthcare.

They will pay for the things, they will not pay for union fat cat bosses, twenty layers of bureaucrats, massive opulent offices for the bureaucrats, 250% of salary pensions, overbid contracts for kickback bribes, etc.

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Referendums is what has destroyed California. Don't allow them! You have been warned.

Some of those 'Green referendums' are still destroying California. Remember Jerry Brown in the 70's pushing all the local referendums to dismantle questionable dams, instead of rebuilding/repairing them, so the rivers and the salmon could run free? Seems they forgot the purpose of those dams was creating reservoirs for storing water........now they try covering some of the remaining reservoirs with black balls to prevent evaporation.

BLACK balls! Obviously lawmakers are unsuited to making decisions based on the effects of solar radiation when absorbed by a black surface in contact with a liquid.

(SARCASM FONT)And these mental giants control a good portion of our lives.

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"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

Read 'bout them black balls....
Cost the taxpayers millions, and some say they, in addition to not accomplishing their intended purpose, may create a bacteriological breeding ground of major proportions.

The excuse for making them black, given by the company that reaped the contract, was that carbon black used to make the black balls would not leach into the water, whilst dyes used to make other colors would do so.
Which means to say, they did not have the technology to profitably make balls of a more suitable color for the intended use.

Silver would have been the best choice.

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"Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once."

Referendums is what has destroyed California. Don't allow them! You have been warned.

Some of those 'Green referendums' are still destroying California. Remember Jerry Brown in the 70's pushing all the local referendums to dismantle questionable dams, instead of rebuilding/repairing them, so the rivers and the salmon could run free? Seems they forgot the purpose of those dams was creating reservoirs for storing water........now they try covering some of the remaining reservoirs with black balls to prevent evaporation.

BLACK balls! Obviously lawmakers are unsuited to making decisions based on the effects of solar radiation when absorbed by a black surface in contact with a liquid.

(SARCASM FONT)And these mental giants control a good portion of our lives.

Yes, they read scientific engineering reports that say black balls will cause less evaporation than no cover. They read scientific engineering reports that black balls will cause less photo-chemical toxic effects than no cover. They read scientific engineering reports that water quality will improve with a cover, any kind of cover. Then some DC/EPA jerk comes along and says you must put a cover over this existing reservoir. So the legislature that is spending huge amounts of cash to support Obama Care with a state run exchange picks the cheapest cover. Push here, something else pops out there. That's how the system works.

Oh, I suspect the next thing the DC/EPA jerks will say is that you have to put a cover over the rivers and aqueducts!

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Mark my words....
I would bet almost anything that in a rather short time, this taxpayer funded 'experiment' is going to fail.
Then it will cost maybe millions more to suck up all the black balls out of the reservoir, and more to dispose of them somehow. The EPA will probably get involved in regulating the disposal effort to increase it's cost.

And then they shall be back to square one, trying to figure out how to squander millions more to do it again.

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"Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once."

I'm probably going to regret this post but..........

and more to dispose of them somehow

........I know one national leader who could make good use of two of them.....

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"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

BTW....
I did take the survey.
Huckabee
Cruz
Rubio
Paul
Walker
Carson
Trump
Bush
Clinton
Sanders.

And I am so far-right you couldn't budge me with dynamite.

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"Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once."

I'm with you Kong on city mayors .

Here in ozz we have local elections for mayor however it's more just a part time position than a full time one .

I have objected to complusery elections for local councils for the reason they can be sacked by the state government and they then appoint a manager for 4 years instead of having elections so why vote for local councils if they can just be sacked and no elections called any time there is corruption or they go bankrupt (both of witch has happen'd to the city i live in Wollongong ).

And to think we arn't in any where near as much trouble financially as the U.S is and it still happen'd to my city i live in twice in 20 years too .

So even elections wont stop bad managers or corruption Chris .

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Mark my words....
I would bet almost anything that in a rather short time, this taxpayer funded 'experiment' is going to fail.
Then it will cost maybe millions more to suck up all the black balls out of the reservoir, and more to dispose of them somehow. The EPA will probably get involved in regulating the disposal effort to increase it's cost.

And then they shall be back to square one, trying to figure out how to squander millions more to do it again.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2008/06/we-are-not-maki.html
Note the date, June 9, 2008. I think that 7 years of use data is perhaps enough to know that they aren't going to do all the terrible things the hucksters say they will.

Oh, a regular cover for these reservoirs would be closer to a billion dollars each. Yes, they are huge.

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Just how much say do the American people have in what goes on in their country?

I can vote and I can run for office if I want. ;~)

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The mind is a weird and mysterious place

I kind of like what's happening in the US these days.
Just like the Romans, Imperial America is being
birthed right now. Think Clinton, Bush, Gaius Julius
Caesar Octavianus.....


edit:
Just sayin'....

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I kind of like what's happening in the US these days.
Just like the Romans, Imperial America is being
birthed right now. Think Clinton, Bush, Gaius Julius
Caesar Octavianus.....

So who's going to be the next Nero or Caligula and burn the county to the ground ?

And the nominees are

Jeb Bush
The Donald
Clinton ops she's female so can't count her
Chris Christie
Ted Cruz
Jim Gilmore
Rand Paul
Rick Perry
Marco Rubio
Rick Santorum

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So who's going to be the next Nero or Caligula and burn the county to the ground ?

Tony Abbott.......

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"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

So who's going to be the next Nero or Caligula and burn the county to the ground ?


Tony Abbott.......

He's trying too but I think he's gona run outa time . good one hehehehehe

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I to think she would be a good president but it's not the right time for a female to take office and that is only a personal view based on something silly .
Not on gender but something else .Chris

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I kind of like what's happening in the US these days.
Just like the Romans, Imperial America is being
birthed right now. Think Clinton, Bush, Gaius Julius
Caesar Octavianus.....


edit:
Just sayin'....

Think Pax Romana or else...