I married mine....

A manly thing to do, Eh?

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A manly thing to do, Eh?

and now back at the game....

I think Elizabeth Warren would be as good
for the republic as any of the Roosevelts!

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A manly thing to do, Eh?

and now back at the game....

I think Elizabeth Warren would be as good
for the republic as any of the Roosevelts!

Warren is not running, she is smart and fair minded and that alone disqualifies her. Sanders is seen by much of the electorate as being too radical even though he not radical at all, I personally like Biden but once again he is not running.

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No, I'm not trying to threaten. I'm just saying I'm going to ask it one more time and if you still evade, I will not ask it again because you will leave me to draw my own conclusions about your intentions. I just want to know why anybody would want to support Hillary given her track record.

She made a pretty competent secretary of state.

That's it? She’s pretty competent? That's all anyone can say about her accomplishments as secretary of state? Can't name anything positive, eh? Can’t even name *one* thing she actually *did*, can you?

Its more about what she didn't do that has us impressed. She certainly wasn't a gung ho warmonger. She did what she was supposed to do.

Well, our current president was elected based on "identity politics."

*wince* I think it says it all that a black president is attacked for being black (whether that is disguised as claims he was elected because of identity politics or not, you've still made it about his race). Funny we don't see that when a white president is elected.

And it continues with this election cycle but the thing that's different is the people who are relying on "identity politics" are having a hard time with it because this time, she comes with a whole lot of baggage which is indefensible.

So the reason that Obama was elected wasn't because people didn't want what Hilary had to offer, it was because he is black, except this time Hilary shouldn't be elected because you don't like what she has to offer. I see.

If it were truly about "it's time for a woman in the white house" now, then people would be more open to the idea of Carly Fiorina.

Never heard of her, and you have nothing to say about her apart from her gender and her name. Do tell us more.

But it's not about "having a woman in the white house" now, is it?

No, I hope not. However, I really hope that all the attacks on her aren't just because she is a women the way so many of the attacks on Obama have been because he is black.

It's about putting another person in the white house who ignores the rule of law (the *root* of our downfall) in order to make progress towards the destruction of society through the implementation of socialism because it'll feel good every time we make something happen in that direction. We say we care about the children and the oppressed minorities, but we really don’t care because their future doesn’t matter to us right now. If it feels good to the current generation, then it must be good for the future, right?

mmmkay?

Socialism/communism fails every time it's tried in history (and is failing in several countries right now), but we don't care about that because they must not be doing it right because when we do it, it feels good. It feels good to do it our way right now. When it fails, it won't matter to us right now because we'll get everything we want right now and the future doesn't matter because we won't be living in the future. Liberals/socialists/communists are *not* *for* the children.

Yeah...you're going on about communism again as if it has something to do with Hilary Clinton. I think you are very confused.

Check out the current thread entitled: Migration Period now? It's not a fantasy. It's happening right now. You can thank our current president for most of what’s happening right now across the middle east and north Africa. When Hillary gets into the white house, it’ll only get worse for Europe. Your welcome!

So you are blaming Hilary for destabilisation of the middle east and climate change? If she is that powerful we really should throw our support behind her. Imagine what she can accomplish? However, I do agree that she has not done enough to fix the messes made by the Bushes in that direction, although Obama getting you guys out was a start, and he is starting to do something about climate change.

Or are you talking about the internal European immigration caused by the opening up of the European free market? Not sure again what Hilary had to do with that. I can't wait to be enlightened.

Don't know our current national debt, do you? Don't know our current *real* unemployment rate, do you? Don't know what's happening across our borders right now, do you? Don't know what's happening to U.S. business right now, do you? Don't know the current state of our education, do you? Don't know what's happening to a couple of our minority populations right now, do you? Don't know what's happening in many cities across the U.S. right now, do you? Don't know of the police being shot "execution style" across the U.S. right now, do you? Don't know what we are getting ready to support in Iran, do you? Don't know what's happening in North Korea right now, do you? Just what exactly are you paying attention to? Just what exactly has gotten better under Obama?

The sky is falling? The sky is falling? Someone is drumming you up into a frenzy for some reason. I wonder what their motives could be?

Unemployment has fallen under Obama, the economy has recovered, gay marriage, less spending on pointless wars (which is where all your money went btw) the rate of the deficit increase has declined..and he did all this despite obstruction from the republicans!

Which socialist ideas are working? The ACA? Sure, many have FREE health care now. But what about what's happening to the people who are paying for it?

As one of those people, I never minded. I really didn't. Maybe I wasn't mean?

Free market causes problems? I could list several cases where government control of a market KILLED PEOPLE.

and I can list examples where lack of control killed thousands of people. They may have been foreign people by US companies, but they were still people.

I'm not totally against some socialist ideas, but it's got to be LIMITED. Your generalized statements for socializing everything and completely killing off the free market will end the same way the USSR ended in 1991.

yeah, you're going to have to find where I actually said that.

You always run out of OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY.

Other people's money? It was my money. I paid my fare share and didn't begrudge a penny.

So keep on laughing, I guess. I can't stop you from laughing. But your laughter will come to an abrupt ending eventually if you keep getting your way.

ok. If you say so.

Well, I could say the same thing about many things you say. I made the mistake of un-hiding this attack on me.

Perhaps I should have used better words, but I really can't find any. You aren't living in any reality I know. It sounds like you in a very unhappy place. Have you thought about moving to Canada?

Truth like this hurts.

oh...its the truth is it? and you'd be the sole arbiter of the truth? It doesn't hurt because it is true, it hurts because it is more of the same ol' sexist BS that I've seen time and time again. You've basically accused her of sleeping her way to the top. This isn't an episode of Mad Men so no one is going to think you are speaking some universal truth. They are going to see you as rather offensive.

Without shining a light on it, it becomes the norm. Make it the norm and we'll regress on "women's rights." Is that what you want? You want to be relegated to being treated like a woman in Iran?

this old threat? Shut down the women speaking by telling her she should be grateful this isn't Iran. Not cool. Rather transparent and not cool.

No? Then acknowledge the truth when it is presented to you. Carly Fiorina has a husband on her coat tails. And when he feels entitled to become the next secretary of state, I'll have some negative things to say about him, too.

I've never heard of her and you are unwilling to actually talk about her. Do you have anything to say about her?

Bush 41 fooled me once. Bush 43 fooled me again. Bush 45 is not going to fool me. Period. This is the "status quo" I'm arguing against as brutus. No more bushes. No more clintons. No more *lawyers* with *political experience*!

Calling the number one candidate in the polls to be our next president a clown is... is just... well, it just confirms what I've already figured out about you a long time ago.

So you aren't voting for Carly Fiorina then? After all that talk?

See what you made me do? You DRAGGED me down into the gutter with you. I'm done here unless Chris gives me any sort of *thoughtful* answer to the question he seems to be evading. (He and everybody else.)

Rude.

If there're folks in here who want a benevolent dictator/marxist/redistributor of wealth, then they just need to say this. I see some talking about this in a "round-about" way in the "Monarchy v Republic" thread. Obama has begun the "fundamental transformation" of the USA and Hillary will continue it if she's elected--but I believe she is unelectable now because of her latest "email scandal" (which is putting it lightly.) Our founders were well aware of the issues we are dealing with today and we are pushing away their ideas as if they are no longer relevant. Most issues cannot be solved by going hard right or hard left on them. There must be a balance and a way to self-correct. Our country was founded on the principle of there being a higher authority and with His help, we can self-correct. Take Him away and we will go the way of all other countries in history. The scary thing is this country is one of the few who has focused on individual liberty in the past. When this country falls, the rest of the world will fall. And someone like Kim Young Un will be our world leader. Keep laughing at this and saying it's not going to happen... and when it happens, what are you going to say then? It shouldn't have happened? It'll be too late then.

You really believe this stuff, don't you?

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Reality Internet Personality

Poor Joe Biden, a tough gig his son put on him.
I resolve to be mindful of what I tell my loved
ones on my death bed.

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Clyde for once we mostly agree. The point we disagree upon is Biden's competency, the fact he is VP proves the electorate view him able to take the presidency.

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Check out the current thread entitled: Migration Period now? It's not a fantasy. It's happening right now. You can thank our current president for most of what’s happening right now across the middle east and north Africa. When Hillary gets into the white house, it’ll only get worse for Europe. Your welcome!

Actually, that's Bush's fault, along with decades of bad American foreign policy. Obama's reaction may have not been the best, but to blame it all on him? No, thats inaccurate and unfair.

And quite honestly, I think the Republicans would cause much more problems for Europe. They might be stupid enough to start another war and create more chaos and instability in the region. They might further provoke Russia to step up its involvement in Ukraine. Obama's reaction may have been comparatively weak, but that is mostly because we have arrived at a point where further US involvement will not help the situation, and he is at least smart enough to acknowledge that.

Excusing Obama's Incompetency, and complete misunderstanding of The World:

Is just putting ones 'Head in the Sand' for the sake of their Ideology.

I'm not excusing incompetency. Obama just simply can't do anything about the current problems. Yes, it makes him look weak, but I rather have a president that puts his ego aside and appears weak but doesn't create an even bigger problem, than a president that for the sake of appearing strong intervenes and creates more chaos and conflict later down the line.

Besides, his foreign policy isn't all bad. Improved relations with Cuba was long due, and the Iran deal is another diplomatic victory. I don't care what the detractors of the Iran deal say, they rather start a war over unfounded suspicions of WMD's (remind you of anything?) so they can pound their chests and proclaim how strong they are than let diplomacy run its course first. Such a caveman attitude is pathetic and unworthy of 'leaders' of the free world.

Long Gas Lines and Hyper Inflation.

Iranian hostage crisis, the fiasco in the desert, a Quagmire.

Why does The Left always excuse Idiots?

Dogma always wins out over logic.

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"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

Long Gas Lines and Hyper Inflation.

The Brainless Left also said there was nothing, as with Obama, that anyone could do.

The inflation was the result of the oil price suddenly doubling. The oil price doubled because OPEC decided to reduce oil production, thereby creating an artificial shortage. How could any president have solved that?

Up the revolution!

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Do you really mean that? Reagan and Thatcher cut taxes.

Reagan? Really? http://www.democraticwhip.gov/content/fact-checking-gop-largest-tax-increase-modern-history-was-under-president-reagan-not-preside

Fact Checking the GOP: Largest Tax Increase in Modern History Was Under President Reagan, Not President Obama

It helps to know the facts of a situation before you draw conclusions.

<ed>He also did the same for California while he was Governor.

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Of course the DEMOCRATIC WHIP (Steney Hoyer) is going to try to FOOL as many people as possible into believing his party is better than the other. True, the revenue increased under Reagan (also called TAX) but he's not going to mention the fact the MTR was REDUCED.

See how that works? A LIE becomes the TRUTH.

Interesting to see how a mind in denial works. Apparently you have to believe tax was reduced, even while you acknowledge it was increased on average. Or perhaps the question should be, are you a 1%'er? Do you think the Seti Boards are filled with 1%'ers? Or are you average and the Seti Boards are filled with average?

Of course if in all your arguments, you had you feet held to the fire with a fact check, so you had to issue all the massive piles of exceptions to them, they wouldn't sound convincing, even to yourself. Stop with the extremism!

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Chris, I don't know why I feel compelled to try to enlighten you. I can't help but to try to help you understand

Beats me as well! What all that really means is that I disagree with you, so you will get me in a corner and browbeat me down until you I do agree with you, or say I do for a quiet life. Sorry doesn't work, as others have found out.

You have given your opinion, I have given mine, we disagree, therefore end of story. You are entitled to your opinion, why would I waste my time trying to change it? If you choose to be misguided, your problem not mine.

And anyway, weren't you on the point of leaving here, what kept you?

+100 here too Chris.

The US political system is a nightmare and doomed to fail in the end unless it has some drastic reforms made to it (not that some would care or even want to). ;-)

[edit] that would be bad for business :-O

Cheers.

Hi Wiggo :-)

The US political system is a nightmare and doomed to fail in the end unless it has some drastic reforms made to it (not that some would care or even want to). ;-)

Well, as most people know I spent a total of 10 days in both Eastern USA (Pittsburgh) and Western USA (San Francisco). And I can say without any hesitation that it is a very scenic country, and the people are fantastic. But I think it is a shame that they still cling to this outdated Founding Fathers thing, and the Constitution, the first part being the Bill of Rights. I think the people deserve a better political system than what they have.

All this stuff about State Governors acting like Lords of the Manor, which we gave up in the Middle Ages, Primaries and running mates, and the Electoral College, everyone hating the Feds, is not suitable for the 21C. But too many people won't give up the right to carry guns, so nothing will change.

Lets face it the Americans are happy with their system, the fact that the rest of the world looks on with disdain if of no interest to them.

Huh??

Whiskey... Tango... Foxtrot...

So, you are an expert on the entire USA because you spent a total of 10 days in 2 small areas of the USA?

The Founding Fathers outdated?
The Constitution?
BTW, the Bill of Rights is NOT the first part of the Constitution. It is considered to be the first 10 Amendments to the Constitution. Of the original 12 Amendments proposed, 3 through 12 were ratified almost immediately. The original Amendment 2 (restricting Congressional pay raises) was finally ratified in May of 1992. Amendment 1 (regarding the number of members of the US House of Representatives) has yet to be ratified.

While I agree that we do need some small amount of political reform here in the USA (enough to break the 2-party, Democrat/Republican, stranglehold on politics here, it is the rest of the world that deserves a better political system than what they have.

State Governors acting like Lords of the Manor? heh...

The USA is a Federation of Republics (the States). The Federal Government is also a Republic. It is a shared-sovereignty system. The Federal Government is sovereign over some things, the State Governments are sovereign over the rest. Yes, we definitely DO have a reason we decentralize power here. Power both attracts the corrupt and corrupts the not-yet-corrupted. It is easier to deal with corruption if it can't fark everything up for everybody.

Primaries/running mates... A rather recent artifact of the 2-party system.

Electoral College is how the State Government's votes for the Federal President are counted.

Not everyone hates the 'Feds'. Some do. But of those that do, it is usually just an agency or two. For instance, most people hate the IRS (the Internal Revenue Service). The IRS owns and operates its own Court System and the People have almost no rights there.

We are HIGHLY suitable for the 21st Century. Perhaps it is the UK, with its Kings/Queens, Princes, Dukes, Earls, etc. that isn't. You know, the hangover remnant of Middle Ages Feudalism...

Guns? Cold dead hands...

Yes, by and large we ARE happy with our system, though many believe it needs a small amount of reform.

The rest of the world's 'disdain'? Heh... Try the rest of the world's ENVY.

Chris, denigrating and insulting the American citizenry by statements like

But I think it is a shame that they still cling to this outdated Founding Fathers thing, and the Constitution, the first part being the Bill of Rights. I think the people deserve a better political system than what they have.

shows that you have only spent 10 days here.

What you have said is tantamount to my saying it's a shame the British still cling to the outdated monarchy thing and the Magna Carta. Perhaps your citizens deserve a better political system such as Sharia law as a growing group of your residents call for.

We are a proud people as a whole just as the British. We are both invested in the systems we have in place, and just as I have no right to call for change in any country other that the US, those who do not live here have no right to call for change here.

In our(my) view British/European holier than thou attitudes are starting to come home to roost. We have long been criticized for our 'treatment' of illegal immigration. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, Hungary builds a razor wire fence, Denmark closes it's roads and railways to the south. Police, Military and even reporters are shown beating, kicking and tripping poor innocent refugees only seeking a better life. (Sound familiar?)

The question long asked of the US can now be asked of your hemisphere, What are you afraid of? The immigrants come to you out of love. There should be no borders.

[EDIT] Maj Kong beat me to the post on some of this.

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"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

The rest of the world's 'disdain'? Heh... Try the rest of the world's ENVY.

Really, no. Just no. Its not that the US system is that bad or anything, but the envy of the world? First off, not in Europe. We got systems that are pretty much similar. Going for the American model would on the whole not be an improvement and in some cases it would more closely resemble a move backwards.

Then Russia. They don't care about what the US has even though it would probably be better for them if they did. But Russians are not an envious people.

China. Well they are currently at a peak moment in history. Why would they want your system? Their own system is working great, at least for now.

The Middle East? Meh, I rather doubt they would be envious of the state they consider to be the source of a lot of their problems.

Africa? Probably more envious of your wealth then your political system.

South America? I think that in most cases they technically already have your system or something similar to it.