Migration Period now?

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Message 1717158 - Posted: 23 Aug 2015, 3:03:40 UTC - in response to Message 1717065.  

Why doesn't birth control work, when people are poor? It should, unless there is money to be made by having more children than the parents can afford. Of course, there are always benefactors, that try to look after the children, that the parents that can't really afford to have them, have! The wealthy seem to have reined-in their need to pro-create (and they can afford to have more), so why is it more difficult, for those who can't afford more off-spring? Perhaps it is a 'cultural thing', which would in effect be, 'breeding slaves'. Is that OK, to have children for the sole purpose of 'attending to the parents'? Some might call that slavery of sorts. I won't, but I'll be hard-pressed to find a kinder way to describe it.
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Message 1717210 - Posted: 23 Aug 2015, 5:04:19 UTC - in response to Message 1717158.  

+1
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Message 1717273 - Posted: 23 Aug 2015, 12:30:08 UTC - in response to Message 1717158.  

Why doesn't birth control work, when people are poor? It should, unless there is money to be made by having more children than the parents can afford. Of course, there are always benefactors, that try to look after the children, that the parents that can't really afford to have them, have! The wealthy seem to have reined-in their need to pro-create (and they can afford to have more), so why is it more difficult, for those who can't afford more off-spring? Perhaps it is a 'cultural thing', which would in effect be, 'breeding slaves'. Is that OK, to have children for the sole purpose of 'attending to the parents'? Some might call that slavery of sorts. I won't, but I'll be hard-pressed to find a kinder way to describe it.

I will let Hans Rosling explain this:)

Will saving poor children lead to overpopulation?
Hans Rosling explains a very common misunderstanding about the world: That saving the poor children leads to overpopulation. Not only is it not right, it’s the other way around!
http://www.gapminder.org/videos/will-saving-poor-children-lead-to-overpopulation/
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Message 1717447 - Posted: 23 Aug 2015, 18:44:45 UTC

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Message 1717473 - Posted: 23 Aug 2015, 19:48:36 UTC - in response to Message 1717447.  
Last modified: 23 Aug 2015, 19:55:32 UTC

Get Ready! They are coming!
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/2ac55e2cea6942abb02f28a045cc1a9c/thousands-migrants-head-closer-eu-macedonia

German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Francois Hollande will meet on Monday in Berlin to discuss the current migrant crisis in Europe, the largest in 50 years.
Among other things, Merkel and Hollande discuss the issue of binding refugee quotas for each country, said French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius. Such a proposal was submitted to the EU Commission Chairman Jean-Claude Juncker, but it was rejected by several governments.

It is now called Exodus!
https://translate.google.se/translate?hl=sv&sl=sv&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dn.se%2Fnyheter%2Fvarlden%2Ftusentals-flyktingar-pa-vag-genom-makedonien%2F

A total of 4,400 migrants rescued in the Mediterranean Sea on Saturday, which is believed to be the highest number of people rescued during a single day.
https://translate.google.se/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dn.se%2Fnyheter%2Fvarlden%2F4-400-migranter-raddade-i-medelhavet%2F&edit-text=
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Message 1717782 - Posted: 24 Aug 2015, 15:47:57 UTC

It's only going to get worse while politicians continue spouting their soundbites.

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Message 1719726 - Posted: 28 Aug 2015, 19:54:12 UTC

Nearly 300,000 people have crossed the Mediterranean this year, including nearly 181,500 in Greece and 108,500 in Italy, according to the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR).

Some 10,000 refugees and migrants crossed into Macedonia from Greece amid chaotic scenes last weekend, it said. About 30 percent are women and children, UNICEF said.

At least 2,373 migrants have died in the Mediterranean this year, nearly 300 more than the same period last year, Joel Millman of the International Organization for Migration said.

Syria's neighbors, which have taken in 4 million Syrian refugees, are stretched to the limit and UNHCR lacks adequate funding to improve conditions in those countries
And Germany and Sweden have been taking 43 percent of the asylum seekers in the EU, UNHCR spokeswoman Melissa Fleming said.


Well the numbers are now getting big!
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Message 1719947 - Posted: 29 Aug 2015, 10:30:56 UTC
Last modified: 29 Aug 2015, 10:47:40 UTC

Police investigating about fake passports made in Stockholm may have been used by traffickers. A dozen people have been interrogated.

But it is not only false passports that make it difficult for the Swedish border police. DN has previously reported on the widespread trafficking in proper travel documents. A Swedish citizens can sign for an unlimited number of passports that can then be sold or lent. It opens a secondary market where both traffickers and violent extremists can get over passports.

- Unfortunately we see a massive misuse of Swedish passports. They are sold for tens of thousands of crowns. No other passports gives visa-free travel to so many countries, said Interior Minister Anders Ygeman (S) on Friday when he presented the government's new counter-terrorism strategy.

Refugee smuggler wants 1,500 euros per person to take the group with Syrian refugees across the Hungarian border. Then he would earn over 20,000 euros a night. "We have no choice if we want to move forward without leaving fingerprints," says Yasmin from Damascus. Her goal is Trelleborg in Sweden.
https://translate.google.se/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dn.se%2Fnyheter%2Fvarlden%2Fyasmin-flyr-fran-syrien-vi-maste-betala-for-att-komma-vidare%2F&edit-text=
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Message 1720339 - Posted: 30 Aug 2015, 17:19:25 UTC

Finland returned today to their home country a total of 50 Albanian asylum-seekers. Applicants for asylum are not granted one reason or another residence permit in Finland. The return was a charter flight which went from Helsinki-Vantaa via Lappeenranta to Albania.

Helsinki Police Chief Inspector Kaj Wahlman says that today's flight was a total of 54 police officers securing the trip. The flight was accompanied by an interpreter and a doctor.
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Message 1720550 - Posted: 31 Aug 2015, 14:48:22 UTC - in response to Message 1720545.  
Last modified: 31 Aug 2015, 14:58:00 UTC

There are now 4 million Syrian refugees!
They dont leave the country because they want to.
They have to.
Then then there is all other countries that do the same.
300 thousands of the refugees are fortunate enough to afford the trip to Europe.
Some don't survive.

The Syrian refugee who says: 'Don't come to Sweden... or think carefully about it'
https://youtu.be/jAJcy5k4rb4
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Message 1721296 - Posted: 2 Sep 2015, 14:59:08 UTC

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/02/shocking-image-of-drowned-syrian-boy-shows-tragic-plight-of-refugees?

"The full horror of the human tragedy unfolding on the shores of Europe was brought home on Wednesday as images of the lifeless body of a young boy – one of at least 12 Syrians who drowned attempting to reach the Greek island of Kos – encapsulated the extraordinary risks refugees are taking to reach the west.

The picture, taken on Wednesday morning, depicted the dark-haired toddler, wearing a bright red T-shirt and shorts, washed up on a beach, lying face down in the surf not far from Turkey’s fashionable resort town of Bodrum.

A second image portrays a grim-faced policeman carrying the tiny body away. Within hours it had gone viral becoming the top trending picture on Twitter under the hashtag #KiyiyaVuranInsanlik (humanity washed ashore)."

The images in this article are heartbreaking, especially if you've had little boys yourself and you can see your own child lying there.
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Message 1721338 - Posted: 2 Sep 2015, 16:10:28 UTC - in response to Message 1721334.  

Isn't going to happen is it?

Truth isn't permitted in politics Chris.
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Message 1721341 - Posted: 2 Sep 2015, 16:13:50 UTC - in response to Message 1721339.  

Truth isn't permitted in politics Chris.

There comes a time when there has to be a line drawn between politics and human suffering. I think we have reached that point now.

Please elaborate on that Chris!
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Message 1721344 - Posted: 2 Sep 2015, 16:17:23 UTC - in response to Message 1721339.  

Truth isn't permitted in politics Chris.

There comes a time when there has to be a line drawn between politics and human suffering. I think we have reached that point now.

Unfortunately, we reached that point about when written language was invented.

Until we get replicators running off dark energy we aren't going to get past greed.
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Message 1721348 - Posted: 2 Sep 2015, 16:28:25 UTC - in response to Message 1721341.  
Last modified: 2 Sep 2015, 16:32:22 UTC

Truth isn't permitted in politics Chris.

There comes a time when there has to be a line drawn between politics and human suffering. I think we have reached that point now.

Please elaborate on that Chris!


This

Eurotunnel should be suing the French authorities for loss of business.

is his solution

:-[
from here or the politics of defeatism he expressed here :-(
We have nothing to fear but fear itself. Apart from pain. And maybe humiliation. And obviously death. And failure. But apart from fear, pain and humiliation, failure and the unknown and death - we have nothing to fear. Who’s with me?
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Message 1721392 - Posted: 2 Sep 2015, 17:33:32 UTC - in response to Message 1721349.  

Unfortunately, we reached that point about when written language was invented.

I wouldn't quite say that Gary!

I'll admit it might have been before, but there is no record of it.

A written language is the representation of a language by means of a writing system. Written language is an invention in that it must be taught to children; children will pick up spoken language (oral or sign) by exposure without being specifically taught.

Apparently writing is about 3400 BC with Glyphs.
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Message 1721625 - Posted: 3 Sep 2015, 9:21:11 UTC

Yeah, regardless of whether there is enough political will to end 'the reasons of migration', the problems that cause it aren't something you just fix.

You don't just end the war in Syria, nor can you just replace the repressive regime in Eritrea with a more enlightened one. Crushing poverty can't be solved in a matter of weeks. And that is even assuming that we can intervene in a way that actually solves the problem and not just creates more problems.

We have to face it, the reason for migrations are not going to disappear any time soon, and while I support any effort focused on stabilizing the parts of the world and thus taking away reasons for people to move to Europe, we have to accept that those are long term processes and that for now it will be our humanitarian duty to take in these people and give them shelter. If we do it right, we can even benefit from it ourselves.
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Message 1721658 - Posted: 3 Sep 2015, 12:09:24 UTC

BUDAPEST. The chaos of the hundreds of migrants who gathered at the Keleti train station in Budapest to go to Germany continued after the train started to move. Hungarian police tried to force migrants into the refugee camp - and families with children lay down on the tracks in protest.
https://translate.google.se/translate?hl=sv&sl=sv&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dn.se%2Fnyheter%2Fvarlden%2Fdns-reporter-pa-plats-desperata-manniskor-stormar-tagen%2F
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Message 1721692 - Posted: 3 Sep 2015, 14:09:48 UTC

Turkish police have arrested four suspected smugglers believed to have been responsible for the capsized boat where Aylan, 3, journeyed before he drowned.
The suspected traffickers are believed to have organized a refugee transport on a boat that capsized Wednesday off the Turkish coast on the way to the Greek island of Kos.
Twelve people drowned, including eight children. Among these were three-year-old Aylan, whose body washed up on a beach in Bodrum. The image that was taken when the rescue workers carried the little body has spread all over the world.
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Message 1721696 - Posted: 3 Sep 2015, 14:20:06 UTC - in response to Message 1721652.  

One possible way forward is to get an elite force of SAS and Navy seals together and wipe out all the human traffickers.

Just because that would work in an action movie does not mean it will also work in real life. Sending in the SAS or Navy Seals to hunt down human traffickers is pointless. Human traffickers aren't part of some large shadowy criminal organization and who possess a small army of well armed mercenaries. They are criminals who buy a boat, then put all those people on the boat, charge them 1000-5000 euro per person and send them on their way to Greece or Italy.

Shoot one and another guy will take his or her place. As long as people are desperate enough to get to Europe and as long as they can't get in legally, human traffickers will be there to smuggle people in and get rich in the process.

If there was no way to get to Europe or to the UK, then that will help stop these needless deaths.

There will always be a way into Europe. And there is nothing that can be done to change that.

Then we help these people go back home and improve their countries so they actually want to stay there. If that means a couple of regimes get overthrown then so be it.

As if improving a country is something you can just 'do'. Like just throw enough money at it and it will magically get better. Thats not how it works. And oh, yeah, just overthrow a couple of regimes, because that has worked so great in the past. In case you haven't noticed, but the vast majority of countries where we overthrow the regime, it only makes the situation worse.

The world as a whole cannot stand by for much longer watching all this happen without doing something. Ignore the UN they are just a talking shop and a waste of space. I bought a Mail today, sorry I will wash my mouth out later, the pictures and reports in that were very bad reading, two little boys drowned together with their mother. Yes of course the paper was capitalising upon human suffering, what the Mail does, but in this case there is some justification for it.

And the only way to effectively stop that from happening in the short term is to open up Europe's borders. Set up asylum processing camps in Turkey and Libya, set up a regular ferry route between the two countries and just start shipping refugees in. That puts all the human traffickers out of business, it ensures that the people can cross into Europe in a safe and secure manner, and it probably makes the whole refugee stream a lot easier to manage.

Also, accept that these refugees will need to be spread out over Europe in a fair manner, which means that a lot of countries need to pick up the slack and start letting more people in.
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