The Train Thread 2

Message boards : Cafe SETI : The Train Thread 2
Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.

Previous · 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 . . . 81 · Next

AuthorMessage
D McQueen
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 19 May 99
Posts: 18
Credit: 18,354,346
RAC: 9,726
Canada
Message 1716095 - Posted: 20 Aug 2015, 20:38:38 UTC

Canadian Pacfic steam engines cp 1238 & cp 1286 according to Trainorders are in NS Rockport yard
ID: 1716095 · Report as offensive
Profile Bernie Vine
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 26 May 99
Posts: 9866
Credit: 86,880,871
RAC: 84,439
United Kingdom
Message 1716104 - Posted: 20 Aug 2015, 20:51:07 UTC - in response to Message 1716095.  

Canadian Pacfic steam engines cp 1238 & cp 1286 according to Trainorders are in NS Rockport yard


Does anyone know when a how they will move?
ID: 1716104 · Report as offensive
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 25807
Credit: 50,418,368
RAC: 17,569
United States
Message 1716117 - Posted: 20 Aug 2015, 21:10:07 UTC - in response to Message 1716078.  
Last modified: 20 Aug 2015, 21:10:20 UTC

Yes famous Cripple Creek Sheriff Railcar, so famous in fact that everyone seems to have heard of it yet no one seems to know it's history.

http://www.icrr.net/passenger1.htm
#'s: 3
US 4
18
8
AMTK 800138
PPCX 800138
Class: Office
Built: 1917
Notes: Pullman lot #4466. Renumbered to #8 in 1940. Assigned to C. H. Mottier and J. M. Trissal in 1950's and 60's. Currently privately owned and marked Sheriff Railcar and Cripple Creek.

ID: 1716117 · Report as offensive
Profile Bernie Vine
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 26 May 99
Posts: 9866
Credit: 86,880,871
RAC: 84,439
United Kingdom
Message 1716130 - Posted: 20 Aug 2015, 21:26:20 UTC - in response to Message 1716117.  

Yes famous Cripple Creek Sheriff Railcar, so famous in fact that everyone seems to have heard of it yet no one seems to know it's history.

http://www.icrr.net/passenger1.htm
#'s: 3
US 4
18
8
AMTK 800138
PPCX 800138
Class: Office
Built: 1917
Notes: Pullman lot #4466. Renumbered to #8 in 1940. Assigned to C. H. Mottier and J. M. Trissal in 1950's and 60's. Currently privately owned and marked Sheriff Railcar and Cripple Creek.

Which is sort of what I meant.

Tells you nothing, really, no history of what it was used for from 1917 to 1940. When was it sold off. Also no real info on what is was just "office".

Of course most intriguingly, why is it now Cripple Creek Sheriff Railcar.

Strange.
ID: 1716130 · Report as offensive
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 25807
Credit: 50,418,368
RAC: 17,569
United States
Message 1716142 - Posted: 20 Aug 2015, 21:45:23 UTC - in response to Message 1716130.  

Yes famous Cripple Creek Sheriff Railcar, so famous in fact that everyone seems to have heard of it yet no one seems to know it's history.

http://www.icrr.net/passenger1.htm
#'s: 3
US 4
18
8
AMTK 800138
PPCX 800138
Class: Office
Built: 1917
Notes: Pullman lot #4466. Renumbered to #8 in 1940. Assigned to C. H. Mottier and J. M. Trissal in 1950's and 60's. Currently privately owned and marked Sheriff Railcar and Cripple Creek.

Which is sort of what I meant.

Tells you nothing, really, no history of what it was used for from 1917 to 1940. When was it sold off. Also no real info on what is was just "office".

Of course most intriguingly, why is it now Cripple Creek Sheriff Railcar.

Strange.

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,3808351
IC = Illinois Central?

As to why the name today, not sure. There is an actual Cripple Creek RR, but they are narrow gauge.
ID: 1716142 · Report as offensive
David S
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 4 Oct 99
Posts: 18352
Credit: 26,809,446
RAC: 5,158
United States
Message 1716274 - Posted: 21 Aug 2015, 1:59:36 UTC - in response to Message 1716142.  
Last modified: 21 Aug 2015, 2:12:14 UTC

Yes famous Cripple Creek Sheriff Railcar, so famous in fact that everyone seems to have heard of it yet no one seems to know it's history.

http://www.icrr.net/passenger1.htm
#'s: 3
US 4
18
8
AMTK 800138
PPCX 800138
Class: Office
Built: 1917
Notes: Pullman lot #4466. Renumbered to #8 in 1940. Assigned to C. H. Mottier and J. M. Trissal in 1950's and 60's. Currently privately owned and marked Sheriff Railcar and Cripple Creek.

Which is sort of what I meant.

Tells you nothing, really, no history of what it was used for from 1917 to 1940. When was it sold off. Also no real info on what is was just "office".

Of course most intriguingly, why is it now Cripple Creek Sheriff Railcar.

Strange.

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,3808351
IC = Illinois Central?

As to why the name today, not sure. There is an actual Cripple Creek RR, but they are narrow gauge.

Yes, IC = Illinois Central. What I make of that page is that it was built as an office car for railroad executives to use as they traveled the system. Other search results lead me to believe it came under the control of the United States Railway Administration. That branch of government has had two incarnations. The first was when President Wilson nationalized the railroads during World War I. The second was the agency that was set up to oversee the formation of Conrail out of several bankrupt railroads in the 1970s. Given that the number US 4 is listed so early in its history, I'm thinking it was the first USRA that controlled it for a while. [edit] I wrote this paragraph after reading the icrr.net page but before reading the trainorders page. [/edit]

I'll ask my friend Mike what he knows about it. He's not busy at the moment. He was supposed to depart Seattle on 8 today, but Amtrak is busing around the fires in Montana, so he's stuck there for at least a couple of days. Poor guy.

By the way, if I don't get on here tomorrow night, I want to mention that last week the Percy train was going all the way to the west end of station track 2, so it should be fairly visible from the Spaulding Tower webcam at http://irm.org. You're still not likely to see me unless I walk over to talk to the conductor again.
David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

ID: 1716274 · Report as offensive
David S
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 4 Oct 99
Posts: 18352
Credit: 26,809,446
RAC: 5,158
United States
Message 1716278 - Posted: 21 Aug 2015, 2:08:40 UTC - in response to Message 1716104.  

Canadian Pacfic steam engines cp 1238 & cp 1286 according to Trainorders are in NS Rockport yard


Does anyone know when a how they will move?

These are the same ones I've mentioned. They are on flat cars, with their tenders together on a third flat car. They are expected to come through Chicago, but I don't know the schedule. There are lots of clearance issues to work out, both height and weight, but they have preliminary clearance on Metra's CP lines.
David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

ID: 1716278 · Report as offensive
Profile Gone with the wind Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donor
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 19 Nov 00
Posts: 41592
Credit: 42,007,548
RAC: 191
Message 1716444 - Posted: 21 Aug 2015, 13:31:34 UTC

I know that America is 3000 miles wide, but I just find it ironic that trains can arrive hours or even days late, and people just accept it.

If the 8.45am was 10 minutes late at Waterloo station there would be hell to pay and letters to the London Times. Even a 30 minute delay with the Glasgow to London service gets front page news in the Evening Standard. Are Americans THAT laid back, or just gave up years ago?
ID: 1716444 · Report as offensive
Profile zoom3+1=4
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 30 Nov 03
Posts: 62612
Credit: 51,792,335
RAC: 22,498
United States
Message 1716451 - Posted: 21 Aug 2015, 13:42:44 UTC - in response to Message 1716444.  

I know that America is 3000 miles wide, but I just find it ironic that trains can arrive hours or even days late, and people just accept it.

If the 8.45am was 10 minutes late at Waterloo station there would be hell to pay and letters to the London Times. Even a 30 minute delay with the Glasgow to London service gets front page news in the Evening Standard. Are Americans THAT laid back, or just gave up years ago?

Now I could be wrong on this, but here goes nothing:
Americas freight railroads usually have priority over an Amtrak Train, since Amtrak for the most part runs on freight railroads tracks as a guest.

David could say something more on this and when He has the time, I think He might.
My Amazon Wishlist
The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, One of America's First HST's
ID: 1716451 · Report as offensive
Profile Gone with the wind Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donor
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 19 Nov 00
Posts: 41592
Credit: 42,007,548
RAC: 191
Message 1716465 - Posted: 21 Aug 2015, 14:26:38 UTC

Americas freight railroads usually have priority over an Amtrak Train, since Amtrak for the most part runs on freight railroads tracks as a guest.

You may be right. I believe that the majority of Americas railways were built for freight not passengers, unlike the opposite in the UK. Over here during the last century the London Express had 100% clearance. If you held that up for any reason it was a sack-able offence.

Hey how about this then?

Gold train
ID: 1716465 · Report as offensive
David S
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 4 Oct 99
Posts: 18352
Credit: 26,809,446
RAC: 5,158
United States
Message 1716488 - Posted: 21 Aug 2015, 15:09:04 UTC - in response to Message 1716451.  

I know that America is 3000 miles wide, but I just find it ironic that trains can arrive hours or even days late, and people just accept it.

If the 8.45am was 10 minutes late at Waterloo station there would be hell to pay and letters to the London Times. Even a 30 minute delay with the Glasgow to London service gets front page news in the Evening Standard. Are Americans THAT laid back, or just gave up years ago?

In the places in the US where service similar to that in the UK is operated, it has similar tolerance of tardiness. It is only the long distance trains that ever get delayed by huge amounts, and not as often as you might think; people think it happens a lot because they only hear about it when it does, not when it doesn't. When it does happen, Amtrak compensates the passengers in various ways: partial or full refund of fare paid, hotel if they missed a connection to another train, fly them to destination if they want.


Now I could be wrong on this, but here goes nothing:
Americas freight railroads usually have priority over an Amtrak Train, since Amtrak for the most part runs on freight railroads tracks as a guest.

David could say something more on this and when He has the time, I think He might.

By law, Amtrak has priority. Practice is another thing and varies by railroad and division of the railroad. CSX is notorious for delaying Amtrak for its hotshot freights, even when the freight is still hundreds of miles away. Sometimes the solution to this is to put public money into extra track capacity, but even liberal governments are reluctant to do so for a single train each way per day.

America's railroads were built for both passenger and freight service, but most of the passenger infrastructure has dwindled away since WWII. For example, the Chicago & Western Indiana, a terminal road mostly within the city of Chicago, had six main tracks approaching downtown, one for passenger and two for freight in each direction (or was it two and one?). That part of the line now belongs to Metra, part of the Southwest Service line. Once trains leave Amtrak control at 21st St., it's a single track to about 39th St. (8 blocks per mile). After negotiating the connection between NS's line to Union Station and the leads to Ashland Ave. Yard, it's double track to 74th St. (at which it turns west into the mess I told you about a few days ago). And that NS line to Union Station? It used to be the mighty Pennsylvania Railroad (one of two routes they had into town), with four tracks right next to C&WI's six. It's now three tracks (numbered 1, 2, and 4, although 4 is where 3 was when there were four of them). The point I was making before I started lecturing is that the railroads today are mostly optimized for freight, and passenger usually doesn't fit into the scheme very well.

There is also a very old saying in railroading: late trains get later. The reason for this, at least nowadays, is that the railroad schedules its freight trains so that Amtrak fits into a "slot" between them. If Amtrak misses its slot, they don't hold the freights, and then Amtrak has to wend its way through them whenever possible.
David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

ID: 1716488 · Report as offensive
David S
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 4 Oct 99
Posts: 18352
Credit: 26,809,446
RAC: 5,158
United States
Message 1716490 - Posted: 21 Aug 2015, 15:11:37 UTC

Yesterday's 6 had a UP engine leading and PV Sierra Hotel on the rear. Someone got it on video at Agency, Iowa, running several hours late.
David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

ID: 1716490 · Report as offensive
Profile Bernie Vine
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 26 May 99
Posts: 9866
Credit: 86,880,871
RAC: 84,439
United Kingdom
Message 1716498 - Posted: 21 Aug 2015, 15:24:15 UTC
Last modified: 21 Aug 2015, 15:27:45 UTC

I know that America is 3000 miles wide, but I just find it ironic that trains can arrive hours or even days late, and people just accept it.


If you journey takes a hour or two then delays of day would of course be silly.

No one says they accept it. Far from it there are lots of complaints and calls for Amtrak to be sold off/shut down.

The trains you are talking about are long distance sleepers, all the local trains I watch arrive fairly on time or usually early, by "local" I mean 100-300 miles and 2-4 hours journey time..

Please imagine if you will travelling from Aberdeen to Penzance a journey of some 697 miles taking 13 hrs 12 mins, 4 times one after the other, then you will have an idea of the distances they cover, also remember a lot of the country is open and wild, there are landslides, floods and due to the "open nature of the railways, accidents. Also while in fact Amtrak are "supposed" to have priority over freight, that apparently sometimes does not happen.

I have have been watching the Chesterton camera for either the 29 or 49 and seen several long slow freights pass when according to Amtraks own map their train is stationary a few miles back.

Remember in the UK the track is all owned by a third party that has nothing to gain by slowing anything down as they will get fined anyway. Also most of the UK is minimum double track, not so in the US.

I will admit there is of course a lot wrong with long distance passenger rail in the US, but to compare with the UK you should really be looking at the more local services funded by city and state they compare more with our system.

We really don't have anything in the UK that compares with the long distance sleeper services, that run everyday of they year (Christmas, New Year and all Sundays). The California Zephyr takes 51 hours (on a good day).

So arriving an hour late on the Penzance train would be the same as 4 hour late on the Cailfornia Zephyr.

Currently the California Zephyr that Departed Emeryville (SF)Yesterday at 9:10am PDT(5:10pm BST) is on time and it is due into Chicago tomorrow at 2:50 PM CT. The one that left Emeryville on Wednesday is unfortunately 1 hour and 18 mins late and is due in Chicago at 3:04PM CT (9:04pm BST)

So today both are doing fairly well. As usual when everything is working OK you don't hear much, it is only when it goes wrong and for trains that travel father than some airlines those delays can be pretty spectacular

I see David has answered whilst I have been writing an has helped to explain things.

I will post as well so as to hopefully put in into the perspective of the UK
ID: 1716498 · Report as offensive
David S
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 4 Oct 99
Posts: 18352
Credit: 26,809,446
RAC: 5,158
United States
Message 1716499 - Posted: 21 Aug 2015, 15:25:16 UTC - in response to Message 1715698.  

Speaking of IRM, it has been revealed this week that we will be getting something from rather out of our geographic area (hardly the only such item in our collection). It's an electric locomotive originally built for the Virginian Railway, which merged with the Norfolk and Western. I believe they sold it to the New Haven, which became Penn Central and then Conrail. It's been just sitting for many years (CR quit using electrics in about 1980) and now it's on its way to the museum in Altoona, PA, where it will get a cosmetic restoration before it comes to us. There is talk that we may try to make it operate, which would surprise me somewhat.

More info on this:

8/2015 - Coming to the Juniata Shops for restoration!
Conrail 4601 is one of two E33 electrics remaining of the 12 built. All were built
for the Virginian as GE class EL-C. They found their way onto the New Haven then
Conrail. 4601 has been in storage at Old Saybrook, CT since at least 2003. It's
going to the Illinois Railway Museum.
The other EL-C/E33 is on display at the Virginia Museum of Transportation in
Virginian colors.


AltoonaWorks - Juniata Insourcing | Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/altoonaworks/photos/a.10150327322115637.570694.222359370636/10156041257315637/?type=1&theater
David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

ID: 1716499 · Report as offensive
Profile Bill Walker
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 4 Sep 99
Posts: 3868
Credit: 2,697,267
RAC: 0
Canada
Message 1716501 - Posted: 21 Aug 2015, 15:27:52 UTC

Similar story in Canada. The railways were built for freight and passengers, but post war the passenger service dwindled. Long distance train passengers are just about all tourists these days, they don't mind delays as much. If you mess with urban transit train times, on the other hand, you can expect letters to the editor, nasty words in Parliment, etc.

You have to remember Chris that from our point of view just about all the UK passenger rail services would be considered urban transit.

ID: 1716501 · Report as offensive
Profile Bill Walker
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 4 Sep 99
Posts: 3868
Credit: 2,697,267
RAC: 0
Canada
Message 1716506 - Posted: 21 Aug 2015, 15:37:45 UTC - in response to Message 1716498.  

The California Zephyr takes 51 hours (on a good day).


Anybody that signs up for a 51 hour ride, when the air trip would be 6 or 7 hours at roughly the same price, is not worried about arrivaling on time.

ID: 1716506 · Report as offensive
Profile zoom3+1=4
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 30 Nov 03
Posts: 62612
Credit: 51,792,335
RAC: 22,498
United States
Message 1716509 - Posted: 21 Aug 2015, 15:38:55 UTC - in response to Message 1716465.  
Last modified: 21 Aug 2015, 15:40:05 UTC

Americas freight railroads usually have priority over an Amtrak Train, since Amtrak for the most part runs on freight railroads tracks as a guest.

You may be right. I believe that the majority of Americas railways were built for freight not passengers, unlike the opposite in the UK. Over here during the last century the London Express had 100% clearance. If you held that up for any reason it was a sack-able offence.

Hey how about this then?

Gold train

Well if it exists, and it's not impossible, the Nazis stole a lot of stuff and killed a lot of people to get that, if this is true, then this is one train that didn't get a 'neutral' swiss bank passport...

The Nazis were so far ahead of US in some areas, so almost anything could be in a tunnel.
My Amazon Wishlist
The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, One of America's First HST's
ID: 1716509 · Report as offensive
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 25807
Credit: 50,418,368
RAC: 17,569
United States
Message 1716521 - Posted: 21 Aug 2015, 16:13:51 UTC - in response to Message 1716444.  

I know that America is 3000 miles wide, but I just find it ironic that trains can arrive hours or even days late, and people just accept it.

If the 8.45am was 10 minutes late at Waterloo station there would be hell to pay and letters to the London Times. Even a 30 minute delay with the Glasgow to London service gets front page news in the Evening Standard. Are Americans THAT laid back, or just gave up years ago?

America's urban trains may have better on time performance than the UK system. You don't hear about that because you don't consider them trains. In WWII America built airplanes. They didn't stop when the war was over and they had lots of land to build lots of airports. Who is going to take a multi-day train ride those 3000+ miles when they can hop a plane and be done in time to see eat dinner and catch a show? Oh as to distance, that would be you getting on a train in London and arriving in New York.

Oh as to accept it, you have noticed how many take the train and how many take the plane? Maybe the market forces are at work?
ID: 1716521 · Report as offensive
David S
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 4 Oct 99
Posts: 18352
Credit: 26,809,446
RAC: 5,158
United States
Message 1716531 - Posted: 21 Aug 2015, 16:27:13 UTC - in response to Message 1716521.  

I know that America is 3000 miles wide, but I just find it ironic that trains can arrive hours or even days late, and people just accept it.

If the 8.45am was 10 minutes late at Waterloo station there would be hell to pay and letters to the London Times. Even a 30 minute delay with the Glasgow to London service gets front page news in the Evening Standard. Are Americans THAT laid back, or just gave up years ago?

America's urban trains may have better on time performance than the UK system. You don't hear about that because you don't consider them trains. In WWII America built airplanes. They didn't stop when the war was over and they had lots of land to build lots of airports. Who is going to take a multi-day train ride those 3000+ miles when they can hop a plane and be done in time to see eat dinner and catch a show? Oh as to distance, that would be you getting on a train in London and arriving in New York.

Oh as to accept it, you have noticed how many take the train and how many take the plane? Maybe the market forces are at work?

The problem is that people are also taking planes for distances where they should be taking trains. That's not just the market, it's also government policy over the last 60+ years favoring air and highway over rail. The government policy, in turn, is influenced by the lobbies for air and highway being fueled by big business, whereas the big business of railroads mostly wants to stay out of the passenger market, unless they see an opportunity to get public funding for major infrastructure work on their property.
David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

ID: 1716531 · Report as offensive
Profile Gone with the wind Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donor
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 19 Nov 00
Posts: 41592
Credit: 42,007,548
RAC: 191
Message 1716543 - Posted: 21 Aug 2015, 17:06:32 UTC

Well thank you to everyone that has posted, some really interesting replies there. Of course the first thing to realise is that we can't realistically compare the UK with the USA. For one thing the UK could fit roughly 3 times into the state of Texas. And yes UK railways were mainly intended for passengers as against the USA for Freight.

But also sheer distances come into it as well. In the States nobody thinks twice about driving 150 miles to get a weeks shopping, if we do it's 5 miles down the road and we moan about it. And yes, Americans hop on and off planes the same way we hop on and off buses over here.

If I was on a special train e.g. say the Venice Simplon Orient Express, I would be absolutely delighted to be 12 hours late with an extra complimentary meal and glass of champagne :-)) Not so funny when you are 15 minutes late for work with an ar**h**e boss.

But consider this if you will. At present it is 50/50 which is the easier option to travel from London to Manchester for a business meeting. Train time 2h 10m, flight time from Heathrow to Manchester 55m. But factor in the journey times to the airports + check in, and it gets a bit moot. But with HS2 it would be 1h 8m, city centre to city centre.

I prophesy that rail will take over from air in the UK, the opposite will happen in the USA.
ID: 1716543 · Report as offensive
Previous · 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 . . . 81 · Next

Message boards : Cafe SETI : The Train Thread 2


 
©2019 University of California
 
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.