Calais Migrants

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Message 1706471 - Posted: 29 Jul 2015, 22:24:40 UTC - in response to Message 1706469.  

The smell of bacon and eggs?
But seriously there are so many refugees risking their Lifes to leave their home countries...

Muslims can't touch pork, so that excuse can't be used :-)
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Message 1706476 - Posted: 29 Jul 2015, 22:38:38 UTC - in response to Message 1706471.  
Last modified: 29 Jul 2015, 22:40:15 UTC

The smell of bacon and eggs?
But seriously there are so many refugees risking their Lifes to leave their home countries...

Muslims can't touch pork, so that excuse can't be used :-)

Muslims? Are we christians?
"Muslims" prefer halaal food just as "jews" prefer kosher.
Christians don't eat dogs as well.
In China they do.
If a muslim that practising Islam and touch a dog they have to first clean there hand with dirt then the wash them with water 7 times.
We have plenty of dirt and water here in Sweden.
I know a dussin kids from muslim countries and they love to play with our dog.

Oops. Now our dog Tosca starts to eat a pigs ear:)
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Message 1706497 - Posted: 29 Jul 2015, 23:15:51 UTC

Oh & as they signed up for 5 years, good lads they are, their 2nd posting will be Iraq. :-)
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Message 1706636 - Posted: 30 Jul 2015, 9:24:10 UTC - in response to Message 1706608.  
Last modified: 30 Jul 2015, 9:25:04 UTC

The answer is many fold. Firstly would you want to live in any of the countries that these migrants come from? No you wouldn't, so it is understandable that they don't either. Secondly the reason why they travel through lots of countries to get to Northern France is simple. Those countries have stricter immigration rules and they would simply not be allowed to stay there.

Actually the UK has a very strict asylum and immigration application procedure. Probably stricter than in other countries. Suffice to say, all those immigrants and asylum seekers trying to cross from Calais to the UK don't stand a chance of getting their application accepted.

The problem is not the policy itself, but the perception that the migrants have of your policy. They are convinced that the UK is easy to get in and to build up a life there. They are utterly wrong, but they won't know/believe that until they actually made it to the UK and reality hits them.

1. Britain puts up the shutters and says no more pseudo applications for political asylum. You are simply economic migrants. Your problem not ours. Go back home and change you own country for the better.

Its not that easy. The UK already has basically closed the shutters to just about everyone, but that never stops people from trying. And the more difficult it becomes to get into a country legally, the more people will try to enter it illegally.

If you look it from a supply and demand perspective, closing the borders is essentially shutting down the demand side of the equation, but that still leaves the supply side. Migrants will not suddenly stop migrating when they hear the UK doesn't want them anymore. The reasons for migration remain, so they will try.

3. Any migrants that do reach the UK will be sent back immediately on the next freight shuttle. The problem is that the French would probably not allow them back in and send them back to us!

Thats not a problem, France can't refuse them. EU rules and all that. Though it would probably be better to send them to safe countries further away.

That said, once they ask for asylum you need to process their claim. That takes some time. Only after that can you send them to a safe third country.

4. We need an international PR exercise to say that Britain is not a soft touch any more, try and get here and you will be sent back.

As far as I'm aware people already try this. But it takes time before the message gets through to people. And like I said, migration won't stop because the UK won't accept any more people. People aren't migrating because they think the UK is the best country in the world to live in, they migrate because they think their own country is the worst country in the world to live in.

5. There should be an international effort with national police forces, Interpol, security services to root out and destroy the people traffickers. If they were put out of business, a lot of this wouldn't happen.

Where there is demand for a certain type of service, supply will be created. As long as there are people who want to get into Europe, or the UK in particular, and they can't get in through legal means, human traffickers will have a market to operate in. No matter how many you shut down, others will take their place.

The best way to combat illegal migration and human trafficking is to make it simpler and cheaper to get in legally. At the same time, you may find that a lot of migration then becomes only temporary. Its suggested that the main reason why people stay in countries like the UK is because the cost of getting in is so high that people consider it a waste of their efforts if they leave again after a few years. While if its easy to come in, work for a few years and then move back to where you came from, people are more likely to actually go back home again. We can see it with the Polish, after they joined the EU they all went to the West to work, and after a few years, a lot of them decided to return back to Poland.

6. There must be an International effort to try to make life better in the countries where the migrants come from. If they can be given an acceptable life at home they wouldn't want to leave in the first place.[/list]

In the long run that is probably the best solution for this problem. Take away the reasons why people migrate and the problem is solved. So yeah, definitely this. But keep in mind, even if we come up with an effective method to help countries develop to such a level that people no longer feel the need to try their luck elsewhere, in a lot of cases it will take decades before we have reached that point.
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Message 1706934 - Posted: 31 Jul 2015, 9:47:53 UTC

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Message 1706951 - Posted: 31 Jul 2015, 11:26:02 UTC
Last modified: 31 Jul 2015, 11:26:19 UTC

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Message 1707111 - Posted: 31 Jul 2015, 21:05:23 UTC

Hmmm, £2000 per head? Nice little earner for the Snivel Serpents

Said in jest over 14 months ago: -

Yep, definitely time for a military coup...

Blow up the Euro Tunnel
Royal Navy in charge of all harbours
RAF in charge of all airports
No more regional police services but a national police force & paramilitary at that

Just wonder how many will want to enter illegally then?

Nurse! He's out of bed again!

Just wondering how long before that becomes a reality?
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Message 1707616 - Posted: 2 Aug 2015, 7:30:55 UTC

If I were you, Sirius, I'd avoid looking at the Daily Mail site today......
Don't take life too seriously, as you'll never come out of it alive!
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Message 1707637 - Posted: 2 Aug 2015, 8:57:38 UTC - in response to Message 1707628.  

I agree fully with your comments. When I retired early, mainly due to frequent periods of poor health, plus seeing how the wind was blowing, I was not entitled to any benefits at all - not one penny! My partner works, was one reason....as if their sole wage is enough to fully support two people! Another reason was that I, in effect had savings (a private pension fund) and a Local Government pension. Five months on and I'm still trying to 'unlock' my private pension and am soon to receive my L.G. pension, which I was not going to do, for some years yet! However, due to the PPP (private pension plan) company messing me around, I've had to request my L.G. pension be paid early which, of course, entails financial penalties!

The bits I just don't understand are, if these people in Calais are so poor, where did they get the substantial amounts of cash to enable themselves to be 'trafficked'? If you're poor in this country, you can't even afford to get out of it, for even a week! Only a few days ago, I went out early to get some bread and in the entrances to quite a few businesses, people were sleeping. While it did put into perspective, my own predicament, it also annoyed me that there are homeless people sleeping on the streets, while people as per Calais, who get here are living a life of luxury in comparison. That can't be right. Perhaps the price we pay is already too high.
Don't take life too seriously, as you'll never come out of it alive!
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Message 1707660 - Posted: 2 Aug 2015, 11:56:41 UTC - in response to Message 1707628.  

I would endorse that advice Iona, but well, you know him, he hasn't got an original thought in his head. His whole world is the Waily Fail and how they tell it how it is.

For someone who is supposed to be a mature adult with a lifetime of experience, your attitude on this forum speaks much about you.

You've compared White Van man to HGV's. Before you posted your excrement, did you read those reports & view those videos?

If you did, are you thinking that there were filmed in a Hollywood studio?

Did you fail to see the comments by Company owners regarding the loads & insurance?

In your "professional" opinion, was that all Bovine Excrement?
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Message 1707671 - Posted: 2 Aug 2015, 13:01:57 UTC

Too late for edit window :-(

Lovely Waily Fail report - Cameron accused of "playing politics"

@Iona :-)

"Foreign lorry drivers are reportedly taking £1,200 bungs to give desperate migrants a lift through the Channel Tunnel. A Bulgarian truck driver is said to be under investigation by the police for accepting a wad of cash from a migrant in return for help across the border. British lorry drivers fear that the dodgy deals are widespread among foreign truckers in Calais, where migrants have made 5,000 attempts to make it through the Channel Tunnel in the last week. Kent Police say they have not arrested a lorry driver for helping a migrant cross the tunnel but have detained fleeing immigrants."

So no £6000 fine then?
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Message 1707720 - Posted: 2 Aug 2015, 16:20:51 UTC - in response to Message 1707637.  

The bits I just don't understand are, if these people in Calais are so poor, where did they get the substantial amounts of cash to enable themselves to be 'trafficked'? If you're poor in this country, you can't even afford to get out of it, for even a week! Only a few days ago, I went out early to get some bread and in the entrances to quite a few businesses, people were sleeping. While it did put into perspective, my own predicament, it also annoyed me that there are homeless people sleeping on the streets, while people as per Calais, who get here are living a life of luxury in comparison. That can't be right. Perhaps the price we pay is already too high.

Well it generally costs them much if not all of their savings, and family probably pitches in as well. Though it should be noted that the people who do this are not the poorest in their country of origin. The poorest from those places either don't migrate or only migrate to a neighboring country, something they can do on foot or with only a minimal investment.

And honestly, I wouldn't call getting locked up in some detention center while the government handles your application as a 'life of luxury'. Not even relative luxury. Sure, they don't starve, but they are being treated like criminals.
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Message 1707724 - Posted: 2 Aug 2015, 16:33:39 UTC - in response to Message 1707720.  

but they are being treated like criminals.

What do you not understand about this?

Illegal Immigrants. You know that there are procedures in place for "Genuine" asylum seekers or have you forgotton that?
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Message 1707759 - Posted: 2 Aug 2015, 17:32:59 UTC - in response to Message 1707754.  

Late to the party, no wonder there is a crisis :-)
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Message 1707792 - Posted: 2 Aug 2015, 18:43:52 UTC - in response to Message 1707759.  

Late to the party, no wonder there is a crisis :-)

Why is it so different between the EU countries?
The country receiving by far the most applicants is Sweden, with 8,365 per million people living there. The UK received just 494, which compares to 2,513 for Germany and 972 for France.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/datablog/2015/may/11/which-eu-countries-receive-the-most-asylum-seekers
Even Finland have more asylum seekers per capita then the UK!
662 per million people.
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Message 1707813 - Posted: 2 Aug 2015, 19:37:02 UTC - in response to Message 1707792.  

Late to the party, no wonder there is a crisis :-)

Why is it so different between the EU countries?
The country receiving by far the most applicants is Sweden, with 8,365 per million people living there. The UK received just 494, which compares to 2,513 for Germany and 972 for France.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/datablog/2015/may/11/which-eu-countries-receive-the-most-asylum-seekers
Even Finland have more asylum seekers per capita then the UK!
662 per million people.

You're missing the point. Ayslum seekers are not the issue here but Illegal immigrants are.
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Message 1707818 - Posted: 2 Aug 2015, 19:42:46 UTC - in response to Message 1707813.  

You're missing the point. Ayslum seekers are not the issue here but Illegal immigrants are.

there is a difference? Dead by bullet or dead by starvation? Isn't dead the key word?
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Message 1707820 - Posted: 2 Aug 2015, 19:45:11 UTC - in response to Message 1707818.  

You're missing the point. Ayslum seekers are not the issue here but Illegal immigrants are.

there is a difference? Dead by bullet or dead by starvation? Isn't dead the key word?

What has that got to do with the issue?
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Message 1707831 - Posted: 2 Aug 2015, 20:09:45 UTC - in response to Message 1707783.  

Those in Calais that are trying to get into the UK are claiming political asylum under false pretences, they are economic migrants, and by actually getting here by sneaking in are illegal immigrants. Where the UK goes wrong is letting people stay, whether genuine claimants or not, and then spending 6 months checking out their claim. They should be sent back where they came from, and made to apply for asylum beforehand, and only then if accepted as genuine, should they be allowed in under article 14.

That approach is not against the international human rights law. Genuine applicants will never be turned away, and never have been. But when you look at that list of "qualifications" you could drive a coach and horses through it. "I live like a slob, I smoke pot, my family have disowned me because I think I am gay, and my neighbour doesn't like me". Can I come in please?

But these people know full well that the British are a soft touch. If they can get here by hook or by crook (usually by crooks) they know they will be fed and housed, given money and NOT SENT BACK. That is the price we pay, that I referred to earlier, for having the lifestyle, freedoms, and common decencies to our fellow man that we take for granted.

Thats an unrealistic expectation. If you are being persecuted you don't have time to go to the British consulate and ask for asylum, then wait 6 months to see if you would qualify or not. And thats even assuming there is a British consulate in the country.

And no, the list of qualifications isn't that broad. Not in theory and even less so in practice. In theory, you apply for a refugee status if you are fleeing war, or if staying means you are probably going to get killed because of your sexual orientation, political convictions or religious convictions. In practice, we often don't even care about any of that and send people back anyways. In the case of the UK, its the Home Office that processes asylum applications and in about half of those cases a judge has to step in because the Home Office doesn't bother to stick to its own rules and denies people a refugee status.

In general, the UK has overhauled the asylum system significantly and the number of applicants and people that are allowed to stay has dropped significantly since the late 90's. Better yet, in most cases they are not granted asylum, and therefor do not get any of the legal protection that recognized refugees have, but are allowed to stay on humanitarian grounds, meaning they have far less legal protection compared to an actual refugee. Very nice if the UK government once again decides to change the rules and wants those people out.

Finally I should add that the UK changes its immigration and asylum rules every 5-8 years. The result is that there really isn't much of a policy as constant policy changes mean no policy ever gets fully implemented and given the time to work out.
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Message 1707845 - Posted: 2 Aug 2015, 20:35:55 UTC - in response to Message 1707820.  

You're missing the point. Ayslum seekers are not the issue here but Illegal immigrants are.

there is a difference? Dead by bullet or dead by starvation? Isn't dead the key word?

What has that got to do with the issue?

Precisely. Dead by the political process or dead by the economic process. The method of death doesn't matter to the person fleeing.
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