Panic Mode On (98) Server Problems?

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Profile Raistmer
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Message 1703534 - Posted: 20 Jul 2015, 22:33:39 UTC - in response to Message 1703533.  

Ok, I'll head back over to beta for the next 12 hours thou I think you've already see these machines. Who's going to join me??

Yep, I saw your results. What about mastering offline benches and promote to alpha from beta? ;)
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Message 1703579 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 1:51:03 UTC

SSP:
Data Distribution State        SETI@home #     Astropulse #    As of*
Results ready to send          331,529         0               0m
Current result creation rate   34.0774/sec     -0.3333/sec     5m


Interesting creation rate for AP WUs... ;-)
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Message 1703607 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 5:00:40 UTC

...Happens when a task is returned (and validates) after its deadline, but before the next version of the task is created.
Bob Smith
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Message 1703622 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 6:01:07 UTC - in response to Message 1703607.  

MB splitters output have improved, but still off the pace.
If not for all the VLARs going through we'd be out of ready-to-send work by now.
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Message 1703637 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 7:04:54 UTC - in response to Message 1703405.  
Last modified: 21 Jul 2015, 7:25:20 UTC

NX-01 wrote:
(...) I think there's just a rescheduler for windows and even that seems to be hard to find.

The developer of this rescheduler tool took his tool offline, because of CreditNew.

AFAIK, also the SETI admins were 'not pleased' about this tool since CreditNew.

A rescheduler tool screw up the correct calculation of the Credits/results (your own - and your wingmen get the same wrong Credits granted).
The SETI server think e.g. it's calculated on CPU (as it is marked online), but after rescheduling it was calculated on GPU. The SETI server does not notice it and grant wrong (not accurate) Credits.
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Message 1703639 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 7:21:12 UTC - in response to Message 1703473.  
Last modified: 21 Jul 2015, 7:23:06 UTC

jason_gee wrote:
Yeah, there seems to be more in play than just the GPU, as when wider distribution was tried some reported extreme problems (with anger). Maybe the next generation of OpenCL and Cuda applications will handle these more to everyone's liking.

TBar wrote:
Yes, as in VLARS take more GPU resources, so, all those cards set to run more than 1 or 2 at a time would start choking...and then the complaints would roll in.

ATI cards receive VLARs at Beta, as do nVidias. Neither receive VLARs on Main.

For 2 or 3 years someone said to me that the ATI/AMD VGA cards (Windows) get .vlar WUs (@ SETI-Main)...

When that was changed?
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Message 1703643 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 7:46:27 UTC - in response to Message 1703637.  



AFAIK, also the SETI admins were 'not pleased' about this tool since CreditNew.


Link, please.
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Message 1703654 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 8:25:44 UTC

Well, Credit New is screwed anyway, no idea if it really matters if somebody screws it even more ;-) But as Hal said, it may not work for V7 anyway.
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Message 1703664 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 9:11:26 UTC - in response to Message 1703643.  

I myself wrote:
AFAIK, also the SETI admins were 'not pleased' about this tool since CreditNew.

Raistmer wrote:
Link, please.

I was in E-Mail contact with David, Eric, Matt and Jeff.
I asked why they don't write it on the homepage - that not to use a rescheduler tool.

Eric answered: I could make such a statement, but I doubt it would do much good. We have no way of verifying who is using the tool. (...)

So they will not make an officially statement about 'not to use a rescheduler tool'.
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Message 1703667 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 9:23:13 UTC - in response to Message 1703654.  

Well, Credit New is screwed anyway, no idea if it really matters if somebody screws it even more ;-) But as Hal said, it may not work for V7 anyway.


Well from Engineering standpoints it's merely got a number of instabilities. Hard to explain, but it can be a case of 'The straw that broke the camel's back.'
"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.
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Message 1703671 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 9:41:21 UTC - in response to Message 1703664.  

I myself wrote:
AFAIK, also the SETI admins were 'not pleased' about this tool since CreditNew.

Raistmer wrote:
Link, please.

I was in E-Mail contact with David, Eric, Matt and Jeff.
I asked why they don't write it on the homepage - that not to use a rescheduler tool.

Eric answered: I could make such a statement, but I doubt it would do much good. We have no way of verifying who is using the tool. (...)

So they will not make an officially statement about 'not to use a rescheduler tool'.


So that's better keep clear. All that buzz over re-sheduler comes from forums and forums only.
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Message 1703672 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 9:43:36 UTC - in response to Message 1703654.  

But as Hal said, it may not work for V7 anyway.


Well, again. It works. Personally veryfied. Period.
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Message 1703674 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 10:09:34 UTC - in response to Message 1703672.  

But as Hal said, it may not work for V7 anyway.


Well, again. It works. Personally veryfied. Period.

Ah, ok. Didn't see that, sorry Raistmer.
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Message 1703677 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 10:32:21 UTC - in response to Message 1703671.  
Last modified: 21 Jul 2015, 10:36:20 UTC

I myself wrote:
AFAIK, also the SETI admins were 'not pleased' about this tool since CreditNew.

Raistmer wrote:
Link, please.

I myself wrote:
I was in E-Mail contact with David, Eric, Matt and Jeff.
I asked why they don't write it on the homepage - that not to use a rescheduler tool.

Eric answered: I could make such a statement, but I doubt it would do much good. We have no way of verifying who is using the tool. (...)

So they will not make an officially statement about 'not to use a rescheduler tool'.

Raistmer wrote:
So that's better keep clear. All that buzz over re-sheduler comes from forums and forums only.

I don't understand you well...

So you (and maybe others also) will still use the rescheduler until the SETI admins post in the News: 'please don't use the rescheduler' ?
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Message 1703679 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 10:40:55 UTC - in response to Message 1703677.  

So you will still use the rescheduler until the SETI admins post in the News: 'please don't use the rescheduler' ?


I will use it while and when see to appropriate and beneficent for the project.
All objections regarding its usage come from quite few SETI forums members and all based on its possible influence on CreditNew credit awarding scheme that has quite a little connection with things that can be considered as positive for the SETI@home project. It was discussed many times already, I don't see any reason to start new round. Just don't deceive public with from where roots of buzz grow.
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Message 1703680 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 10:46:33 UTC - in response to Message 1703679.  
Last modified: 21 Jul 2015, 10:51:03 UTC

I myself wrote:
So you will still use the rescheduler until the SETI admins post in the News: 'please don't use the rescheduler' ?

Raistmer wrote:
I will use it while and when see to appropriate and beneficent for the project.
All objections regarding its usage come from quite few SETI forums members and all based on its possible influence on CreditNew credit awarding scheme that has quite a little connection with things that can be considered as positive for the SETI@home project. It was discussed many times already, I don't see any reason to start new round. Just don't deceive public with from where roots of buzz grow.

You use the rescheduler and you know it will screw up CreditNew.
Wrong granted Credits for the (your) results.

But, your wingmen can't do anything against it, they must accept it that they get wrong Credits, because you use a rescheduler tool.

You don't need to answer... - it's just an ascertainment. ;-)
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Message 1703681 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 10:48:29 UTC - in response to Message 1703679.  

So you will still use the rescheduler until the SETI admins post in the News: 'please don't use the rescheduler' ?


I will use it while and when see to appropriate and beneficent for the project.
All objections regarding its usage come from quite few SETI forums members and all based on its possible influence on CreditNew credit awarding scheme that has quite a little connection with things that can be considered as positive for the SETI@home project. It was discussed many times already, I don't see any reason to start new round. Just don't deceive public with from where roots of buzz grow.


I can see that. On a technical level, well you won't find the problems/weaknesses if you don't push the mechanism beyond its limits either. It's tough though IMO. Which is better ? to push a system to the point it collapses, or try to prop it up by good behaviour. Maybe it isn't black and white.
"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.
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Message 1703685 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 10:57:23 UTC - in response to Message 1703681.  

So you will still use the rescheduler until the SETI admins post in the News: 'please don't use the rescheduler' ?


I will use it while and when see to appropriate and beneficent for the project.
All objections regarding its usage come from quite few SETI forums members and all based on its possible influence on CreditNew credit awarding scheme that has quite a little connection with things that can be considered as positive for the SETI@home project. It was discussed many times already, I don't see any reason to start new round. Just don't deceive public with from where roots of buzz grow.


I can see that. On a technical level, well you won't find the problems/weaknesses if you don't push the mechanism beyond its limits either. It's tough though IMO. Which is better ? to push a system to the point it collapses, or try to prop it up by good behaviour. Maybe it isn't black and white.

Yep, exactly.
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Message 1703690 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 11:16:54 UTC

Credits? what credits?

You not only screw up credits, you also mess with a few server side held personal and global variables that are in turn used for runtime estimates.
Messed up credit is just a secondary effect.

These days a few people moving work across devices will not influence the bigger picture much - the impact is on your own APR and on credit (for you and your wingmate) of course.
The latter makes it an ethical decision ;)

I would discourage from rescheduling in general - you don't want to rock the boat more than you absolutely have to.

I live by the principle 'there are no rules, only guidelines'
That makes you responsible for your actions.
If you can stand before the angry mob and say 'yes I did it, I had my reasons' - well. But don't be amazed if you get lynched before you managed to explain your reasons.
A person who won't read has no advantage over one who can't read. (Mark Twain)
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Message 1703693 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 11:22:38 UTC - in response to Message 1703690.  

But don't be amazed if you get lynched before you managed to explain your reasons.


When I do that on occasion, I still tend to only get some stern tellings off. Hasn't reached lynchmob status yet, but still opportunities to get into the history of the seti@home witch trials.
"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.
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